B. Exchange - 4/9 - UW fish - No great prize, but top 8.

[Harlequin]

Well it wasn't a firstplace Finish.  But No one ever seems to write Fish Reports.  So I whipped one up.  That and I guess I'm a bit board on this monday morning.

UW Null Fish --

Mana Sources (23):
4 – Tundra
3 – Island
1 – Plains
4 – Flooded Strand
3 – Mishrah’s Factory
4 – Wasteland
1 – Strip Mine
1 – Black Lotus
1 – Mox Pearl
1 – Mox Sapphire

Additional Draw: (4 + 4 Ninjas = 8):
3 – Curiosity
1 – Ancestral Recall

Creatures: 15 + 3 lands = 18 total.
4 – Flying Men
4 – Nina of Deep Hours
4 – Meddling Mage
2 – Kataki, Wars Wage
1 – Old Man of the Sea

Threats and Tempo (17)
4 – Force of Will
4 – Swords to Plowshares
3 – Null Rod
3 – Stifle
3 – Daze
1 – Time Walk

Sideboard:
3 – Extract
3 – Sacred Ground
1 – Kataki, Wars Wage (3rd)
1 – Old man of the Sea (2nd)
2 – Energy Flux
2 – Disenchant
2 – Umezawa’s Jitte
3 - Orim's Chant


The deck is straight forward.  A bit light on creatures, a bit light on Null Rod's and kataki's a bit more disruption.  Typically The deck needs alot of help when it comes to aggro.  2 Old men and 2 Jitte's in the board really bring those random aggro games around. 

So I pick up jer (after he wakes up a bit late) and we blaze up 291 to 91 (which incidentally when you tell someone "two ninty one to ninty one" to give dirrections ... they just stare at you).  In the car, I inform Jer that I want to run with UW fish today.  It seems like a good day to me becasue I would expect to see the normal ammount of stax plus some extra control slaver.  All in all both great matchups for the null build.  He has been working on his CS deck for a while so, he is all for it (and agrees with my meta-prediction).  After talking about meta for a bit, I figgure we will see a ton of Grim Long and/or IT.  So we start brianstorming over what is the best answer to tendrils combo.  After going over each card in the board we decide that -2 Jittes and -1 Oldman for +3 Orim's chant is the best way to give Combo a run for it's money.
We wind our way over and around route 20 and get to the exchange.  After purchaceing 2 Orim's Chants and proxing the 3rd.  I hand in my Reg and do some scouting. 
I see TONS of fish.  Wich scares me.  I cut 3 of my best anti-fish cards for 3 orims.  What is worse is that I don't see particularly large numbers of dark rituals and the like... whats worse is I see almost zero stax decks.  BOOO.  I almost want to Ctrl+Z the changes to my side board.  But #1 thats rather un-sportman like, and #2 I just played twenty-some-odd dollars for Orims Chant ... so screw it Im playing them!

Disclaimer:  I didn't take notes, So I don't really remeber any names, and I don't have accurate play outs at all.

Round 1 -  Against "interesting" Oath
My opening grip has Force, Stifle, Old man, Ninja, and some lands and stuff.  It is my EOT on I think 2, he has City of Brass, I think its Jet, Petal (but he has 3 mana I know that)...but again not really sure.  And he casts intuition.  So I figure it's some sort of 5 color tendrils deck possibly.  Next turn I can play the Old man... and I still have not found the flying man for the ninja, I would like to force the Inution, and I waffle a bit between old man and ninja.  I finally decide to pitch the old man. It goes to his turn.  He plays Forbidden Orchard and passes.  Interesting.  I'm not sure what he's playing now perhapse a hybrid oath-tendrils or a transformational tendrils.  At this point I figgure I'm bound to see Oath of Druids Post board regaurdless.  Then I rip Meddling mage.  And I'm torn, because I'm not sure what his maindeck win is... The early Intuition really threw me off in terms of thinking he was playing tendrils.  So to be safe I named brainstorm.  I figure either way he HAS to be running it, and he has not played one yet.  I opt not to ninja the mage and swing slowly with mage.  I think after a few turns I have a curious mage fueling my land drops and eventually I think I ninja a factory up. 

Board: I figure regaurdless of what is maindeck win is... Game two will be against oath so I side like I'm verse Oath.  If I'm wrong then I still have game 3 to rework the board: 
Oh I also saw that he had MD Mishra's Factory.  So I didn't want to side out any flying men... So  I opted for 1 ninja out over 1 flying man.
In: 3 Extract, 2 Disenchant
Out: 1 Old man, 2 Kataki, 1 Ninja, 1 Daze.

Game 2 I had a savagly controling opening hand with tons of mana denial.  Stifles and waste for the denial, along side an early Null Rod.  No real beats.  But I left his only mana sources as a Forbidden Orchard.  wich ended up giveing me slow spirit beats.  After a few turns I had a manland and a mage nameing oath of druids to quicken the clock.

2-0 in games, 3pts.

Round 2.
I forget if I played Steve or Kowal in round 2.  I know I played one of them Round 2 and one of htem Round 3.  I think this is when I played Steve playing IT.  So whatever this is what I'm calling "Round 2" against Steve with a tendrils deck similar to IT.

Fish did exactly what fish does.  Just bearly screws you enough.  I had a daze on an early EOT intuition.  Wich more or less killed his hand.  Couple that with a stiffled fetchland (after a brainstorm) and it ensured crappy draws for long enough to get in lethal.
Game 2
In: 3 Extract, 3 Orims Chant (Whoo-hoo! not a waste!)
Out: 3 Daze, 1 Old man, 2 swords to plow.

Game 2 He owns me somewhat early.  I think I had an early extract and I pealed out the tinker knowning that I only had two swords in the deck.  A few turns later I had 17 life and a swords in hand with a ninja on the board.  He starts going off with yawg but his mana is shakey, and I'm hopeing he fizzles.  If he can only tendrils for 18 then I can go to one life off swords.  I keep a vigilant watch on spell count.  Unfortunately (for me) he puts 9 copies + the card on the stack for 20 with EXACTLY enough mana to do it.  oh well.  Game 3.

I mull a terrible hand into 4 lands 2 colored, waste and manland) stifle and ancestral.  Ok, this will work, but if he has an uber hand I'm boned.  But thats fine, atleast I have the outside stifle for the storm if I need to.  He goes underground go and brainstorms durring my upkeep.  Ok, I draw I think another land.  I opt to play a fetch and pass (incase he can go off next turn).  I think he plays a lotus petal and passes (and I think brainstorms again).  I Ancestral EOT.  I rip Orims, kataki.  I Waste and leave a blue open. He plays fetchland, I stifle.  My turn.  I play kataki, knowing that his board is only lotus petal.  He looses the petal durring his upkeep and I think plays a island and passes? not sure. The game gets interesting.  he has a full grip and continues to land drop.  I basically have orims in hand and slow roll with kataki beats.. while I draw lands and swords.  A few turns in I have a Mage nameing Tendrils.  After a while He has a few lands in play (like 2 or 3).  He has like 7 life left and I have mish + kataki for beats (so he only gets one more turn).  He decides to try and go off.  he commits his moxen and we start a spell count.  He gets to about 5 or 6 spells he has like 2 open mana and he casts Frantic Search with 2-3ish cards in hand, and 3 tapped lands.  I figure Orim's now or never, even though he will get another turn before I win, I have good odds that he cant bounce the mage, and have spell count next turn.  I cast Orim's in response to Frantic Search.  Long story short, Orims resolves and it is GG.  Woots.  Orim's actually wins me a game!

4-1 in games, 6 points.

Round 3 - Kowal PLaying Mono-green Ninja stompy.  Or Gifts...
I always love playing against Kowal, and he always whoops me.  But I always look forward to playing against him anyhow.  As a side note, every time in the past that I have played him, I have been playing mono-blue oath. 

Game One, I have an ok opening grip.  I fetch a tundra early, knowing that I had kataki in hand and that he likely was not running wasteland.  Soon after he tinkers.  I'm holding null rod, but no swords.  I figgure I loose, but I don't let this change my composure.  I "allow" tinker to resolve.  He thinks ... he looks at the tundra ... he thinks... he says, I'll bet you have a swords, and reluctantly fetches a timevault.  (later I realize that he thinks im playing Oath, and that perhapse the DSC would allow me to oath).  It goes to my turn, and I eagarly play Null Rod.  Soon after I play Kataki, and he sacrifices his artifacts.  I procede to wasteland and pummle with kataki and friends.
In: 3 Extract, 2 Disenchant
Out: 1 Old man (main deck old man was so not for the win today!), 3 Daze, 1 Swords.

Game 2 was rather boreing.  I had Fetch, Stifle, Waste, Strip in the opening hand.  He plays island pass.  I could have stripped It but I opted to play fetch for the stifle (I smell fetchland). He does infact play a fetch and I stifle. Pass to me, Stripmine island.  Kowal has no board.  He plays a duel -> waste.  after a turn or two he has an Island in play.  At this point Kowal seems to be enjoing his huge sac of Tacobell and I continue playing magic by myself.  I get some beats and the game end anti-climactically.

6-1 in games: 9 points.


Round 4 - Shop Agro.
I don't remember too too much about this game.  I remember I had not fast enough opening hand, but I mulled 2 hands to 6 so ... sometimes you just don't get the sauce.

Game 1
By the end of the game I see Jester's cap, a welder, 3 volcanics (I think a juggernaught that I swords right before he played the welder), and a tanglewire.  He sets up a recurring wire and I only have 3 lands in play.  I think he get a trike, that I counter ... that he welds in.  Soon after he activates Jester's cap.  And although I have like 15 life, and he has seen very few cards in my deck.  but he has seen enough to know i'm playing fish.  Rather than give him 100% of the information about my deck so he can side perfectly ... I scoop "in response" to cap.

sideboard:
I'm not sure what to do, I didn't see any workshops.  And I'm not sure what to do about sacred ground.  I know I need 1 kataki, 2 Flux, 2 disenchant... but beyond that I'm not sure.  Did he have smokestax?  I wish I knew.
To be honest I'm not 100% sure what I sided.  I think it was
In: 1 Kataki, 2 Fluc, 2 Disenchant, 2 Sacred ground.
Out: 3 Daze, 1 Null rod, ... plus other cards.  I left 1 old man in.

In game two I sneak past and early strip effect and drop an energy flux on turn 2 with mox saphire.  That gives me the upperhand and I send beats into a nice clear board.  Rather un-eventfull

In game 3 goes something to the effect of... my opponent plays turn 1 wasteland and I play first turn kataki, off a lotus.  Then My opponent plays juggernaught.  durring my turn I waste his wasteland wich cuts off his ability to pay for juggernaught.  Soon after things start going badly for me.  And I eventually loose. 

Several times durring this match I have a mage nameing Thirst for Knowledge.  Fearing that my opponent would thirst a sundering titan to the bin, and I would get mega-owned.  I later found out htat my opponent had cut his thirsts so ... clearly a bad name.  I still say, that it was the "right" name given gamestate and the knowledge I had.  However had I known my opponents build better I would have named juggernaught and probably would have done better.  But I don't think it would have won me any games.  All in all a good match.

7-3 in games.  9 points.

Round 5, I sit down shuffle up.  I say "good luck" as offer cut.  To which my opponent says "don't worry, you win"  I chuckle, figguring that he has scouted me and say "oh is your matchup really that bad against me"  He says "nope, I have to go to work" and grins.  We open our hands and get to about turn 4 he has sol ring crypt and a land in play.  He plays timevault.  Durring my turn I draw, attack with a curious man, and draw a null rod.  Play it.  He looks at his cell phone, and congraduates me.  Scoops up his deck, Signs the slip as a 2-0 in my favor, drops, and walks out the door.  Oh well, I scout the top tables because I can draw in.

Still 7-3 in games played ... but technically I'm 9-3.  12 Points.

Round 6 - ID
Run and get a Calzone from the Pizza place next door.
I watch jer play the slaver mirror after I munch down a calzone.

I attest That I'm 7-3 in games and get into top 8 with 13 points.

Top is Annouced and I'm playing against "Nefarion"? something like that...  A very good, experianced, control Slaver player.  this is also the guy who I watched play against Jer in the final round of swiss.  I go into the game extremely confident.  WU fish vrs CS is arguably my best matchup.  I know he has darkblast, and I have no real GY removal so that might be an issue.  We'll see.

Top 8 - Control Slaver
He starts with a very good opening hand.  I start with a good disruption hand, I keep.  I forget alot of the details but I do a lot of stifleing and have surprising little force of will and daze action.  I have a Bi-Curious Flying Man who draws me some savage card advantage.  I eventually get my Forces up and running, and I get the Old man in play to steal a welder right before I swing lethal.    Oh also somewhere In there I made a wierd missplay that didn't really matter.  I traded a flying man for a welder who attacked ... when I had an untapped mishra and land!  it ended up that the flying man didnt matter much but seriously that was a misplay.

IN: 3 Extract, 1 Kataki, 2 Disenchant.  I waffle on Flux, but decide I have better maindeck cards.  Hopefully Kataki will be enough (but I do know he runs Dark blast, but I figure I'll be ok)
Out: =/ not sure.  I think side out mostly one of.  1 daze, 1 flying man, 1 curiostiy, 3 daze I think is what happens, again I leave in one old man, and the ninjas so I can have x/2's I need.

Game 2 early stifle action vrs some early duress action.  I got some mana denial but at the cost of "now my hand sucks." He leaves me with no answers in hand.  Again no Forces or Dazes in my opening hand.  I draw for turn.  Disenchant.  hrmm ok.  He only has jet in play.  On his turn he casts Demonic tutor with 1 blue open.  I figgure now is probably my best chance to disenchant.  So I disenchant his jet in response ... hopefully that will make him dt for something else.  He says "cute," tutors, and casts mana crypt -> tinker.  I might be confusing games 2 and 3 here, but I think he goes for triskellion fearing that I will topdeck swords.  Also I think I have a curious flying man who needs to be stopped.  Something like that.  Anyway Trisk + a welder a few turns later pretty much seal that game up in his favor.

Game 3 was a good game.  I wish I had a more accurate description of what happened but I know It was good.  I have no wastelands in my opening hand but I have a good creature hand with a Force.  He plays Library turn one and draws.  I really hope I can find a wasteland soon.
So Early on I have kataki and flying man, both get Drakblast pwned.  I drop a meddling mage... He has active LOA and darkblast in the yard.  If I name ANYTHING good he will double blast the mage so I name Darkblast hopeing I find another kataki or something else good.  He thrists and shuffles back a DSC.  Soon after he Tinkers, I force, he forces back (or drains) Tinker is in.  Dark Steel Colossus plops into play.  I decide that he makes a better farmer than a beater and turn his swords into a plowshare ... I guess my opponent agreed that he was an offly good farmer and gains the life.  I give beats and I eventually mage gets REBed.  another Kataki get Dark blasted.  Still NO wasteland =(...   I end up with no cards in hand.  He casts Yawg's and tinkers for Trike...  I have 2 nullrods in the yard.  At this point it's basically lost. I'm outa answers.  He has welder.  He attacks with Trike and I draw for turn.  I get a curiosty.  I start haveing fun with him.  I animate my mishra and attach the curiostiy.  And I try and tempt him into two for oneing him by welding him out (Remember I only have nullrods in my yard).  He resists my wiles.  And instead, shoots the manland when I attack and then the trike (because he has dishonored his family) takes his own life to honor the loss of Mishra's factory.  EOT one my opponent's mox because a brand spakin' new trike thanks to welder... thats GG.

Woot! At least I more or less get my entry back.  I trade packs and some cash for a Force of will and head to Friendly's for icecream!

OVERALL:
I was really suprised how many times I had opening hand of Stifle.  It was totally AWSOME.  I absolutely love this card now.  I was also surprised how many times I DID NOT have opening force of will or daze.  So ... that was kinda strange.  I guess I can't complain though, I think most of those hands stifle was way more WTFBBQPWNEDKTHX than a force would have been.  Also I only used lotus ONCE all day.  The two other times (all day) that I had it in hand, I already had the null rod in.  At the same time I saw alot of timewalks.  And yes I pile shuffled between each round, and did many many riffles on each shuffle effect.  So I guess it was just my luck.  There were a few savage topdeck rips after duresses.  So I can't complain about that either.

Also I faced exactly the matchups I wanted to (well, other than shop/aggro).  And I evaded all the fish decks that were there... which is awsome.  I would have liked to face fish and be a savage lucksack and draw that opening Lotus -> one main deck Old Man of the Sea.  I woulda crapped my pants in excitement! 


Props:
- Stifle - You were so good to me
- Wasteland - Although you were not there when I needed you to handle LOA, I can't stay mad at you, you were awsome.
- Flying Men - because they are men ... and they fly.  So good.
- Calzones - Because they are filled with delicousness.
- Friendly's - Because they were a sweet end, to a sweet day of magic
- Kowal's Sack of Taco's - For takeing Kowal's mind off how much it sucks to have only 1 land in play.
- Jer - For knowing to cast E.Truth on the evil DSC, BEFORE he tinkered.
- The Pairing Gods - For not pairing me against fish after I cut all my mirror answer from my board.

Slops:
- Jer - For makeing many misplays with CS, asside from the E.Truth.
- Jer - For haveing stinky feet on the drive home and takeing off his shoes
- Friendly's - For not seating us for 20 mins, and takeing another 10 for our server to take our order. well it looked like they were understaffed, so thats ok.
- Wasteland - For being a confusing card, that even really good player's think can not target itself ... which definately it can! (1st anounce an ability, 2nd DECLARE TARGETS of that ability, 3rd Pay Costs of that ability, and sacraficing is a cost . and yes, I know there are other steps that don't apply to wasteland).
- Mishra's Factory - For not blocking welders.

[Kowal]

TACO SACK!

BEEFCAKE!

[cophos]

Nice Report, Fish doing well's definitely a fair subject to write about. Congratz.
However: Could you explain some of your rather unorthodox cardchoices further? Curiosity, no Standstills (I'm not arguing them being peak, but still...), 4 (!) Swords, etc.
thanx
- Phil

[Harlequin]

Sure, Long story short... standstill is not good anymore.  Decks know how to evade the tempo loss.  Standstill only beats bad players (who you should be beating anyway).  Curiosity gives you a huge card advantage, on par of the card advantage gained by Library of Alexandria.  It also makes your Flying men doubley good.  Also havieng curious ninja's in equally insane. 

Swords to plowshare is by far the best creature control card ever printed.  It has almost no drawback (life gain? bah!), It cost one mana, its white (no BEB or REB hate, and Pro-white creatures are rare), and it takes the creature and REMOVES it from the game entirely.  Is there any reason to run less than 4??  Multiple Swords means I don't have to waste force of wills to "win" the war.  Its good against gifts (but i side out 1 agianst gifts), Unquestionable against Oath, and even better against stax (oh you block with karn... hes a 0/8... ok now hes a farmer - gain 0).  I never feel like swords is a dead card in hand.  Fish looses to tinker -> anything.  and swords prevents that.

[cophos]

Sure, Long story short... standstill is not good anymore.  Decks know how to evade the tempo loss.  Standstill only beats bad players (who you should be beating anyway).

As I stated above, I don't like Standstill that much either, just wanted to read your personal take on this.
(Playing around standstill's tech for years now I guess...)

Curiosity gives you a huge card advantage, on par of the card advantage gained by Library of Alexandria.  It also makes your Flying men doubley good.  Also havieng curious ninja's in equally insane. 

Darkblasting Men's fun I heard. Anyway: I don't like 'em for the very same reason I don't like Curiosity: They do nothing on their own. Curiosity needs a full turn to cycle itself (Edit: k, that's not the best argument... ), Men are just ... Men! :/ Especially when fighting Combo or Combo/control that's not all that much. I used to run Stormscape Apprentice in the cc1 slot with fair success. They really improve your prebaord Oath and gifts macthups and are "the beating" vs all kinds of aggro decks. (Block Lackey, completely dominate the board vs fish (Apprentice+Basic Plains=tech) etc.)
(Swapping out Standstills for Curiosity might be a fine idea though, Brainstorms ain't that bad too, I heard.)

Swords to plowshare is by far the best creature control card ever printed.

I couldn't agree more, however:

So we start brainstorming over what is the best answer to tendrils combo.

StPS definitely is not.
They are fine vs Oath preboard, but I don't like 'em in the gifts matchup that much, unless your opponent's playing tinker blindly. (Otherwise he'll just completely outdraw you and find an alternate way to win the game, while your hand's clogged up with narrow cards.)

[Harlequin]

I disagree with your statement that curiosity needs a full turn to cycle itself.  Playing it durring pre-combat main is the way to make sure at least one hit gets through.  I really do not like Stormscape.  Again he only beats bad players.  Haveing a creature who taps himself to tap a creature is not really that good, he delays the game without actually doing anything.  If you have no creatures on the board and a fist full of curiosities then its likely that you over commited your creatures and they all got owned.  I think the amount of times where brainstorm or standstill are dead cards is much much greater than the times that curosity is a dead card.  I'm not saying that I play it the instant I have an open creature and a blue mana, It certainly requires timing (but so does standstill).  Stormscape likely slows your game down far more than it slows your opponent.  He is a bad creature to ninja up, because he will have summoning sickness again.  And he rarely attacks more than once or twice a game.  Flying men are simple creatures that are unblockable in the early game, makeing them perfect for curiosity and ninja'ing. Also I often opt not to play flying men in the late game because they buffer my hand size and end up being better as a pitch to force then a beater.  Fish can have trouble finding pitches to force of will, I hate to pitch a stifle or a meddling mage... so flying men are simply transporation for my other spells, not nessisarily awsome by themself.  The Men's amplification of the other cards in the deck is more useful to me than the isolated power of stormscape.

Also the two cards you mention not likeing must go hand in hand with each other.  I would not run curiosity without flying men, and I wouldn't run flying men without curiosity.  It certainly is viable to play stormscape and standstill, but I think flying men and curiosity give you a faster advantage in more match-ups than any other combination.

Darkblast is problem card in and of itself.  Flying men are no more in danger of getting darkblasted than stormscape.  If your advocating cutting creatures for non-creature cards then... well thats just silly.  The best way to beat darkblast is having MORE creatures.  They cannot win by dredging ... well... ichorid can... but most decks like gifts and CS can't win by dredging every turn.  They are spending the most important "resource" in magic to kill my creature - Thier draw!   I fully admit, this deck flat out looses to ichorid.  It has, at best, a 10% chance of winning without jitte.

[cophos]

I disagree with your statement that curiosity needs a full turn to cycle itself.

As I indicated before: That argument was completely flawed, so just forget about it.

I really do not like Stormscape.  Again he only beats bad players.  Having a creature who taps himself to tap a creature is not really that good, he delays the game without actually doing anything.

I have done a fair amount of testing with fish builds lately and Apprentice just proved to be a very effective and elegant solution in addressing different problems with a single card.
First of all: Apprentice can swing too. It's not like he's delaying the game if there isn't something better to do. I'm not afraid of blockers at all in the current environment, seriously.
- I'm scared of 11/11 dude bashing my head, e.g. Very often Apprentice just completely foils the plan of an opposing tinker route. (While Rod takes care of the Y's Will plan.) My Gifts match up improved quite a bit with the availability of four Apprentices.
- When facing non-u aggro (Beatz, FCG, WS Aggro etc.) I'd much rather have the ability to nullify its biggest threat at any given time than an unblockable dude, who grants me some extra digging for StPS while big creatures eat my life points.
- Apprentice's much better vs Oath Strategies. A Sword plus an Apprentice is pretty much a guaranteed win. (And more likely than having 2 Swords, which's the only possibility to win the oath match up after name-giving enchantment's resolved, since racing is just not possible with your list.)
- I'd love to tap enchanted or equipped guys in the fish mirror ALL THE DAY LONG. Seriously, this guy was huge in pretty much every fish mirror I played. As mentioned before ignoring the biggest threat at any given time (especially when it's a virtual 1:2 trade) is pretty darn good. Obviously I "loose" a card and one W each turn, but as a reward I'm able to adapt to different situations, always gaining the best "creature:creature trade" available. (Slowing the game down until Man, Crucible, Jitte or whatever mirror bomb you chose gets online's good enough anyway very often.) 
As a conclusion there aren't many situations/matchups I'd want evasion over an actually useful ability. (Addressing one of the main concerns of the archetype.)

He is a bad creature to ninja up, because he will have summoning sickness again.

This argument is downright flawed. The only reason why it's worse to ninjutsu up Apprentice instead of Men is that Apprentice's is a better card and has additional uses than simply attacking. (The evasion issue you did not even mentioned in this context was addressed before.)

Just for the record because you referred to it from time to time: I'm not running Standstill in my current list. In fact Brainstorms do fairly well for me ATM.

Darkblast is problem card in and of itself.  Flying men are no more in danger of getting darkblasted than stormscape.  If your advocating cutting creatures for non-creature cards then... well thats just silly.  The best way to beat darkblast is having MORE creatures.  They cannot win by dredging ... well... ichorid can... but most decks like gifts and CS can't win by dredging every turn.  They are spending the most important "resource" in magic to kill my creature - Their draw!

As long as they are not in danger of running out of cards in library there's nothing wrong with darkblasting as many guys as possible. (Most of the time there isn’t any need to do that anyway. Additionally cards like Pyroclasm or Massacre are much scarier cards than 1:1 trades like blast.) You can't rely on "beating down while my opponent's concerned with me dropping additional threads every turn", since 20 life > 18 creatures, which have to turn up in the first place. Anyway, it's not the right thread for discussing the applications of Dblast.

Keep in mind:
I don't want to slap your build without any discussion, your success obviously grants some sort of importance when discussing your list, however: the correctness and eligibility of your choices is not set in stone, therefore fully discussing 'em can't be the worst thing on earth.   Fish caught my attention a while ago and I'm just trying to expand my "database" ananalyzing successful (bound to a specific metagame though) builds and viewing / utilizing other peoples takes on the archetype.

[Harlequin]

I'm not sure what the bold part of your post is supposed to imply.  I was giveing you the reasons I chose X over Y... If I put you on the defense, or gave you the impression that I did not appriciate your comments then I'm sorry, It was not my intention at all.  I definately approve of input, and suggestions for improvement... but I'm no stranger to the concept of stormscape, so I guess its hard to see the difference between a strong, pre-constructed, arguement against a card... and a defensive, arogant, pompus one.  I assure you, that I am just relaying what I have come to find in testing.  I totally agree that fish has a million plus 1 combination of cards availble to it... you asked why I made the choices I did, and I responded.

In fact I have played with stormscape before.  And, my friend and I have definately tested him, and wanted him to work.  I guess we've slowly found better answers to the problem's you have sighted as being "solved" by Stormscape.  Stormscape was great when there was no development to twart him.  I think the combination of 4 Swords in the main, 3 Extract on the side, and access to Old man of Sea... together are a more surgical answer to the problems you've outlined.  Where Stormscape is perhaps more of a "Cure for the Common Cold" type answer.

Rather than summing up a bunch of cards into one card, I like useing more narrow ...  but ultimately more useful answer.  Especially now that decks like Oath have addapted to beating fish.

I will go back through your list and give you how the deck list I use deals with those problems:
The biggest problem .. Dark Steel Colosus!
Stormscape: Solves DSC great in game one.  better than only 4 maindeck swords.
My build: hope you can get swords.
Post board --
Stormscape: Still solves DSC, but your opponent will have creature hate (DB, Lava Dart, Etc)
My Build: Swords + Extract.  this gives me the ability to extract the win I am least prepaired for.  If I have swords in hand take something thats not tinker, If I have null rod in play, pull DSC.

Beats:
Stormscape: Handles 1 for 1 a creature threat.
My Build: Again Swords + potential for Old man.  Old man goes 0 for 2 usually against beats.
Post board: extra Old Men.

Oath:
Stormscape: game one ... arguably better.
Post board - Stormscape is nearly worthless.  they either have Pro-All creatures or Trike, or both.
Extract > Swords >> Stormscape ... in my oppinion against Oath.

Fish Mirror:
Stormscape is not great.  You need far more creature to punch a whole big enough to get beats in.  It only delays the game.  Fish v Fish is a really long game.  Hopefully I can delay the game long enough to find the only maindeck Old Man, and then just win.

Over all Flow of the deck / answerabiltiy:
Swords and Extract are non-creature, non-temporary, one mana solutions.
Stormscape is a creature solution therefor it is easier to hate out.  It costs a colored mana and to tap himself every turn simply to delay an attacker until your opponent can find an answer to the Stormscape.

The obvious arguement is that: "you constantly admit that stormscape is better.  So how can you say that you do not run it??"  I guess my only retort is that in game one, 4 Swords + Solid Fast draw has been sufficent to win me enough games where I cannot justfy stormscape's inclusion.  Then post board (when your opponent is sideing in "fish" small creature hate), I think I have a dramitically improved game and a much higher win chance than with stormscape.  Remember, you play at least 1/2 and up to 2/3's (inclusive) of your games with your sideboard. 

Flying man vrs Stormscape:
Stormscape is better than flying man.  By far, I agree. 
But you need to think of they way the cards interact with the rest of the deck.  Stormscape fights the rest of the deck, becuase you can't use him AND ninja him, and he consumes valuable colored mana each turn to be useful.  Flying man, however worse, is not the same card.  Flying men is a conduit for other cards in the deck.  He is a catalyst for cards like Ninja, Curiosity, and Force of Will ... all made vastly better by inclusion of Flying men.  Any of those 4 cards are strictly worse than the apprentice in a vaccum, but that package of cards are much much greater than the sum of its parts.  The inclusion of Extract from the board and four maindeck Swords fill the gaps that are created by the exclusion of Stormscape.

[cophos]

I think the combination of 4 Swords in the main, 3 Extract on the side, and access to Old man of Sea... together are a more surgical answer to the problems you've outlined.

Definitely a good approach, however: note that I run all these cards too. Have a look at my creature base:
4 Meddling Mage
4 Ninja
4 Stormscape
2 Icatian Javelineers
2 Old Man of the Sea
(+3 Swords Main; +1 Sword, 1 Man, up to 4 Extracts from the Board.)
My metagame's lots of gifts and fish. (And I'm really looking forward playing the latter.) Therefore Kataki's not included, Javelineers in its place etc. (And I'm not arguing that my build's even close to an optimum in a vacuum, which's pretty silly  anyway, when talking about a metagame deck. )
So: Our disrupting regarding DSC or the mentioned aggro decks is pretty much the same.

But you need to think of they way the cards interact with the rest of the deck.  Stormscape fights the rest of the deck, because you can't use him AND ninja him, and he consumes valuable colored mana each turn to be useful.  Flying man, however worse, is not the same card.  Flying men is a conduit for other cards in the deck.  He is a catalyst for cards like Ninja, Curiosity, and Force of Will ... all made vastly better by inclusion of Flying men.

As I hinted before, my biggest concern's the necessity of Evasion in the current environment. I glanced through your report and couldn't find any situation where the key word "Flying" would have done any good. Don't get me wrong: obviously 6 rounds or so are not nearly enough to let a card shine in every of its aspects but seriously: in what matchups is evasion crucial? Especially when deliberating about the obvious advantages of Apprentice. Sure, you can fly over opposing fishes, shamans or whatever, but an additional way to eliminate basic weaknesses of the deck seems better to me.

But you need to think of they way the cards interact with the rest of the deck.  Stormscape fights the rest of the deck, because you can't use him AND ninja him, and he consumes valuable colored mana each turn to be useful.  Flying man, however worse, is not the same card.

Sure, but if his abilities aren't needed, Apprentice can be used as a vanilla beater the very same way. (Lack of evasion is obviously a disadvantage, but I got at that before.)

He is a catalyst for cards like Ninja, Curiosity, and Force of Will ... all made vastly better by inclusion of Flying men.

On the one hand I never had severe problems sneaking in Ninja via Apprentice or pitching the latter to FoW , but on the other I agree partly: Apprentice + Curiosity just does not seem optimal on paper. (If I play with that I want at least see it work.. (Since I prefer Brainstorm ATM anyway that's not that much of a problem though.))
However, I couldn't tell how big the difference in most matchups really was. (If so, one would rather play a guy with an ability which is useful than with one whose feature's mostly irrelevant, right?)

[Harlequin]

I will say, there have definately been games in the past where the "Flying" part of the men definately spelled the difference between winning and loosing.  Mainly, that situation revolves around Mishrah's Factory.  Also, my typical sideboard includes Jitte, wich is another case where flying men are important (as a solution to Ichorid.dec).  The Orim replacement perhapse diluted the flying men a bit. 

Here is a report by my friend from Day 2 of waterbury VIII -- with a similar deck: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=27017.0

Again its hard to see from the report that the flying man was crazy good.  but in the final match he definately swung over many a blocker in hatchers hate.dec.  It is also key against stax (wich it seems you do not have alot of).  I guess the final quality of him is that he is "non-threatening" on his own.  I know thats an extremely weak justification for him.  But he is NEVER countered! NEVER! and there are perhaps some hands that would totally be lost if the flying man was in facted countered. 


Looking at your creature list, I can see that you have adjusted your deck to fight different threats.  I like that you have the extra old men, and the extracts.  So I definately respect the choice of the apprentice.  I think you hit the nail on the head in that it comes down to Curiosity or not. 

Im guessing in your build you started with Stormscape and included Brainstorm because it worked with Stormscape.  Where in my build I started with Curiosity and fit a creature to it work well with Curiostiy.  Suppose we should be argueing about whether or not Curiosity or Brainstorm is better =P

[cophos]

I will say, there have definitely been games in the past where the "Flying" part of the men definitely spelled the difference between winning and loosing.

I believe this without hesitation, but the same is true when I analyze my test results regarding Apprentice. My primary goal was to deliberate about the advantages and disadvantages of the given cards. Whose ability is more critical in most games?
However, coming to a conclusion ain't that simple due to the fact that these choices seem to be closely related to the expected metagame. (Lots of fish: Men swing in the sky, net card and keep/bring jitte online. Lots of colossi: Tapping = tech. Etc.)

I'm guessing in your build you started with Stormscape and included Brainstorm because it worked with Stormscape.

That's correct of course. (Standstill seemed to be worth some consideration in the early stage of development though, but was abandoned pretty quickly.) Note however, that I've never thought about including Curiosity excessively anyway. (And the lack of Men's definitely a reason for that.)
In the stage of deckbuilding I was positive about the power of Apprentice. (,and the need for a good number of cc1 drops to support ninja.)  As a consequence my deckconstruction was somewhat influenced by these facts. (I'm not even 100% convinced that Apprentice's the bomb fish's looking for in general, but Stormscape served me well in many matches, so I stuck with it.) It seemed to be pretty much the total way around in your testing, as you mentioned correctly.

But: Was my deckbuilding influenced by my first impressions too heavily, so that I abandoned good cards like Curiosity frivolously. Or were you too focused on making use of Curiosity, so that you dropped the real gems in favor of suboptimal creatures? (I'd go for the second obviously ;D, but there can't be a final answer I guess ...)

Suppose we should be arguing about whether or not Curiosity or Brainstorm is better =P

I'd love to. ;D But as I mentioned above and you commented correctly: My choice was a consequence of my test results and impressions. If my only goal was to use Curiosity in the most effective way I would have gone with Men for sure for obvious reasons, however, I exemplified that concept before. ;D
The comparsion should be pretty simple: Curiosity generates long term CA whereas Brainstorms has a greater "dig capability". When playing fish I'm worried about the early and lategame the most. (Varies from hand to hand though, obviously.) Each of the disputed cards serves a different part of this allocation. (Brainstorm's obviously better in the early game to find or help resolving our proactive hate cards whereas Curiosity generates real CA to defend fish player's board / winning position longer-term. (I'd rather have a Brainstorm in my hand when facing a DSC though, but that's probably just me. ;D)

[Harlequin]

My problem with brianstorm in fish is that fish runs no tutors,  so you only have 4 to 5 shuffle effects from your fetchlands.  Brainstorming into junk means you draw junk for the next two turns.  Brainstorm in Gifts, makes sense because it is more like a weaken'ed ancestral recall than a glorified [card]Oricish Spy[/card].  Brainstorm will gum-up your mid and late game draws, or even your mid and late game brainstorms.  In your build do you run enlightened + mystical?

Curiosity will typically cantrip the turn it comes into play, then slowly work it's advantage.  In the late game, your opponent will "out-Broken" fish.  So you need to just make sure you can Force, stifle, and daze the living crap out of what ever they try and resolve. 

Curiosity makes your creatures more vaunerable to "2 for 1"-ing.  But that just means that your opponent is spending resources to destroy a rather weak link in your army.  This will divert attention from meddling mage or kataki. 

Lastly it's one more sacrificable card for smoke stack.  This has straight up won me games. Especially when my opponent is attempting to smokestack race an early sacred ground. 

[cophos]

My problem with brainstorm in fish is that fish runs no tutors,  so you only have 4 to 5 shuffle effects from your fetchlands.  Brainstorming into junk means you draw junk for the next two turns.  Brainstorm in Gifts, makes sense because it is more like a weakened ancestral recall than a glorified [card]Oricish Spy[/card].  Brainstorm will gum-up your mid and late game draws, or even your mid and late game brainstorms.  In your build do you run enlightened + mystical?

I don't run any tutors. Obviously. ;D Anyway: I couldn't agree more. Seriously I'm not a big fan of Brainstorm. But only Ninjas for draw (although Brainstorm does not generate CA of course,) seemed hardly justifiable. (That's a weak argument, I admit, but nevertheless...) There are situation where Brainstorm shines, but I certainly have a sympathetic ear for good suggestions here. ;D

Curiosity will typically cantrip the turn it comes into play, then slowly work it's advantage.  In the late game, your opponent will "out-Broken" fish.  So you need to just make sure you can Force, stifle, and daze the living crap out of what ever they try and resolve.

That's exactly what I was getting at: A long-term CA engine's certainly better in preventing your opponent going off. (Whereas digging helps in the early stage of the game, but mulliganing into your hate's a fair plan too, I guess ;D.)

Therefore: I'm not even arguing that Brainstorm's better in every scenario, but in a build without Men I would not want to run Curiosity without further consideration.