[Single Card Discussion] Rakdos Guildmage in Dragon

[8pt Monkey Hand]

Thanks to Oath, Dragon's classic win condition, the good Ambassador, is thwarthed by Gaea's Blessing. Alternatively, one can Ancestral his opponent to death, but another elegant solution has been given us from Dissension: Rakdos Guildmage.

Rakdos Guildmage B/R B/R
Creature -- Zombie Shaman
3B, discard a card: Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
3R: Put a 2/1 red Goblin creature token with haste into play. Remove it from the game at the end of turn.
2/2

The inclusion of such a kill requires just one land capable of producing red mana. This has advantages over Sliver Queen and Caller of the Claw in that they can swing on the turn they're created, dodging any sorcery speed removal. It has a slight advantage over Shivan Hellkite, in the odd case someone plays some manner of protection like CoP: Red, among other things.(Though,why are you playing such jank?) They wouldn't have enough mana to protect themselves, and it requires considerably less thought than stacking each damage individually. And in the odd chance some Workshop or Welder deck is running PlatAngel, the guildmage shoots it down, along with the Welder.

Well, am I off my rocker?

[PipOC]

This is bad because you can't win off necromancy in response to your opponent tapping out to play a spell, it also requires red mana, as opposed to sliver queen and caller.

[Liam-K]

If you're gonna use red, what's wrong with Hellkite?

DSC is obnoxious to Laquatas too, one turn is a lot of turns.

[LotusHead]

I've already used Dimir Guildmage in my own infinite mana Combo deck (Slapjack2K6) and it is just as good at sorcery speed kill as the Rakdos Guildmage, but pitches to Force of Will.  And it lets me (you) draw your deck. I'm pretty sure that Blue and Black mana are more readily availiable in most Dragon builds that red mana is.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[ozimek]

3R: Put a 2/1 red Goblin creature token with haste into play. Remove it from the game at the end of turn.

Also, this is impossible to pull of under Xantid protection, as you will already have used your one attack. [Insert joke about some stupid extra-attack-phase-creature]

/Jan

[ZyklonB]

Yeah, Xantid Swarm needs to swing, and relying on the attack step is a serious flaw. Hellkite is still the way to go.

[Purple Hat]

if you're using red mana just make your opponent go away.  If you're using caller you think you're going to be having trouble getting infinite mana and this doesn't help with that (if you don't sliver queen is just about strictly superior to caller as it pitches to force of will and is a 7/7 kick to the nuts if you go aggro), and that's not even mentioning the issues with not being able to smack people for 0 before going off.

Hale

[Dante]

The inclusion of such a kill requires just one land capable of producing red mana. This has advantages over Sliver Queen and Caller of the Claw in that they can swing on the turn they're created, dodging any sorcery speed removal. It has a slight advantage over Shivan Hellkite, in the odd case someone plays some manner of protection like CoP: Red, among other things.(Though,why are you playing such jank?) They wouldn't have enough mana to protect themselves, and it requires considerably less thought than stacking each damage individually. And in the odd chance some Workshop or Welder deck is running PlatAngel, the guildmage shoots it down, along with the Welder.

I'm not sure you understand how the Cop: Red works - each point of damage from the Hellkite is separate, so the opponent would have to have access to enough mana to stop an arbitrary (i.e. any large # you choose) number of Hellkite activations, so they would still die.  You can't choose to NOT stack each point of damage individually - you might just say "I'll shoot you for 20 with 40 mana", but what that really means is activating the ability 20 times in a row - it's not 1 activation doing 20 points (and thus can be COP'd for 1 mana), it's always 20 separate activations.

The hellkite can just shoot the welder and Platz too.

The only case this card would be better than Hellkite is from something like Ivory Mask (Oracle text: You can’t be the target of spells or abilities).

Also, don't forget that you can just animate the Hellkite and have a 5/5 (or 4/5 with animate dead) flying beatstick that can ping if you can't find a dragon.

[Purple Hat]

Also, don't forget that you can just animate the Hellkite and have a 5/5 (or 4/5 with animate dead) flying beatstick that can ping if you can't find a dragon.

it's a bit off topic but this bears repeating as it not only factors in here but is also often forgotten in the kumono vs hellkite debate where it is perhaps even more relevant.  having the option of going into "big evasive creature to the FACE!!" mode is really useful at times and should not be ignored.  Frequently when you get into tough games knowing when to go aggro and having a viable option to go to is what determines the winner.

Hale

[Harlequin]

I guess his only saving grace is that he is a discard outlet... technically... If you have 2 mana to hard cast him, then find 4 mana to discard a WGD and an extra 2-3 to animate, I guess he could be 'better' than another win condition. 

[Moonkeeper]

If your looking at guildmages, why not the orzhov guildmage? You're already using black, to animate the dragon, so having infinite black mana is more likely.

[UR]

The arguement is a bit misplaced, methinks. I still play Ambassador and play Eternal Witness as a backup. If you are playing Oath, just hit them a million times with the Ambassador and when the Blessing triggers just hit them a thousand more times without letting the trigger resolve. Then just hit them with an Ancestral Recall... Blessing won't save them because it is still on the stack. So there is actually very little need to replace it.

If your looking at guildmages, why not the orzhov guildmage? You're already using black, to animate the dragon, so having infinite black mana is more likely.

You'll need white mana as well because the Orzhov Guildmage makes both players lose lives.

[Tin_Mox5831]

Another big flaw with this card in regards to 5-Color Dragon is that Forbidden Orchard goes from a great, stable Rainbow-land to an unplayable mana source. The Hellkite is a great option (Although I sometimes go with Kumano due to players using Pithing Needle on me lately.), and Eternal Witness/Ancestral Recall is a great way to kill someone. There's nothing like nuking an opponent with your $500 draw spell. I run just those two win conditions maindeck, but if I had to choose another one, it would probably be the Orzhov Guildmage. It lets Orchards continue to be amazing, and it even dodges stupid cards like Ivory Mask/True Believer that you'll lose to once in a blue moon.

Later,
Dave

[UR]

and it even dodges stupid cards like Ivory Mask/True Believer that you'll lose to once in a blue moon

You should run a single maindeck bouncecard then. It is always useful while playing around something and no permanent will be able to stop the combo if you are running witness (only Solitary Confinement with double Sterling Grove will stop you).

[Tin_Mox5831]

but if I had to choose another one, it would probably be the Orzhov Guildmage.

I know how to win with Dragon, I just said that if I were pressured to play another win condition, I'd try the B/W Guildmage. That certainly doesn't mean I run it.