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Author Topic: Cytoshape - Copied cards, and Triggered abilies from zone changes.  (Read 1262 times)
Harlequin
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« on: June 13, 2006, 11:07:13 am »

Cytoshape.

Choose a nonlegendary creature in play.  Target creature becomes a copy of that Creature.


Suppose for all these situations I have a Cytoshaped creature.  So for example If I have a mountain goat in play, and a Darksteel Colossus, then I played Cytoshape turning my mountain goat into DSC I would say "A mountain Goat shaped into DSC"  Aslo assume I have some sacrifice outlet like... Claws of Gix.


Situation 1: -- Warm up --
I have a Mountain goat shaped into a Sundering titan.  When I sac the copied Sundering titan, does the "When ~ Leaves play" Trigger?  What about the reciprocal (I have a Titan shaped into a mountain goat)?

[my vote: Yes, No]

Situation 2:  --The real question--
Tarpan - When Tarpan is put into your graveyard from play, you gain 1 life. 
Suppose I have a Tarpan shaped into a Mountain Goat.  When I sac the goat clone, do I gain 1 life when it turns back into a tarpan in my GY?

Situation 2x:
The reciprocal of the above,  Lets say I mountain goat shaped into a Tarpan.  Do I gain the life when I sac the tarpan clone (even though hes a goat in my yard)?

Situation 3: -- The Coup de' Grace -- as noted
Suppose I have a Fucundity in play (Whenever a creature is put into the graveyard from play, that creature's controller may draw a card).
I also have a Mishrah's Factory that is animated in play.  Now I Cytoshape targeting a Tarpan, and choosing to shape him into My Mishrah's Factory.  So My Tarpan now is a "Mishrah's Facotry" and it is NOT animated (because the animation is a non-copiable atribute of a permanent in play).  So what was a Tarpan now has a Type of just "Land" and nothing else.  Suppose I sac this un-animated Misharh's Factory Copy (that is technically a tarpan card).  Do I draw a Card (from fucundity triggering)?  Do I gain a life (from tarpan triggering)?


Situation 4:
Mountain Goat Copied ONTO Dark Steel Colossus.  Sac it as a mountain goat (on a DSC card), Do I shuffle the DSC back into my deck?

« Last Edit: June 13, 2006, 06:06:08 pm by Harlequin » Logged

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parallax
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2006, 11:24:40 am »

All situations listed will use the post-Cytoshaped abilities of the creature. A Tarpan-shaped Mountain Goat will give you a life. A Goat-shaped Tarpan will not. If You Cytoshape a Colossus into a Mountain Goat, it will indeed end up in your graveyard. Also, if you turn a Mountain Goat into a Darksteel Colossus, it will be shuffled into your library.
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How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.
Harlequin
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2006, 11:32:11 am »

So essentially, the card goes into the graveyard AS a copy. 

Game state is checked, Triggers go on the stack, THEN the card is turned back into the original card? 
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2006, 12:15:15 pm »

If you Cytoshape a Mountain Goat choosing Tarpan, then Mountain Goat has the ability "When ~this~ is put into a graveyard from play, you gain 1 life." Whenever a creature with a put-into-graveyard-from-play ability is put into a graeyard from play, that ability triggers. The fact the creature no longer has that ability when it hits the graveyard in of no consequence, because creatures don't have abilities in the graveyard anyway (unless the ability specifically says so).

Quote
410.10d Abilities that trigger on one or more permanents leaving play, or on a player losing control of a permanent, must be treated specially because the permanent with the ability may no longer be in play after the event. The game has to “look back in time” to determine what triggered. Each time an event removes from play or changes who controls one or more permanents, all the permanents in play just before the event (with continuous effects that existed at that time) are checked for trigger events that match what just left play or changed control.

Also, if a creature card is not a creature when it leaves play, it will not trigger Fecundity.
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How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.
LordHomerCat
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2006, 12:17:38 pm »

So essentially, the card goes into the graveyard AS a copy. 

Game state is checked, Triggers go on the stack, THEN the card is turned back into the original card? 

Pretty much.  When you Cytoshape it, basically, it IS that card until end of turn, period.  If something happens to it, you treat it as if its something happening to the card you turned it into.  Once its in the yard, it can be affected as the original card (raise dead the goat-turned-factory, for instance), but as long as its in play (and until end of turn), your goat IS a DSC, and has exactly the same text and will act exactly like a DSC.
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Toad
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2006, 03:35:08 pm »

It is Coup de Grâce  Very Happy
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