Best Deck(S) in the format?

[Dakkon]

So, as we've all heard, Grim Long is the new best deck in the format, the new DtB. This is cool and all, but how are the non-combo players supposed to compete with Grim Long? What decks are almost as good that have a chance (if they get a mainphase)?

Control Slaver posts a lot of good results in t8's, but is it the best drain deck? Is gifts a more powerful deck and more likely to beat the Field with a good pilot?

Stax absolutely needs the mainphase to combat anything, but which stax deck can use its mainphase more consistently and efficiently to combat combo?

Grim Long is obviously the most powerful deck in the Ritual archetype, but what are the most broken decks in the workshop and drain archetypes that are fast enough and that can compete?

[Smmenen]

I believe I'm the only person who asserted that Grim Long was the best deck in the format, and that certainly does not make it true.   It is simply what I believe to be the case.  There are lots of great solutions to Grim Long: Blood Moon, Arcane Lab, etc - but I have and can beat them all in various ways.  FoW, winning before you can play it, Xantid Swarm + Chain of Vapor, etc. 

IMO, I  have thought since the falll that Meandeck Gifts and Grim Long were the objective best decks in a sense, but whatever objective strength I think they have is far less important than expertise, matchup knowledge, etc.  That's why I said in another thread that talking about what the best deck to play outside of an evaluation of one's skill with a deck is silly. 

[Dakkon]

Well, I guess you could make almost any deck be the best deck in the format....(your just awesome like that).

But i'm glad to know that other archetypes wont be seriously outclassed by combo. (I really like my drains.)

[Smmenen]

Yeah, don't worry about that.  We'll never see the day of 4 Grim Long in a top 8. 

[dicemanx]

If there were enough Montrealers, I'm sure we would see 4 Bomberman in a t8 on the other hand. That is truly the best deck in the format right now .

[Smmenen]

If there were enough Montrealers, I'm sure we would see 4 Bomberman in a t8 on the other hand. That is truly the best deck in the format right now .

Haha!

Diceman's pithy post makes a number of amazing points in two sentences. 

The deck itself is a weapon, but there is still this person using it.  Performance depends on far more than just the deck you play.

[Dakkon]

But there is also the point that if 30-40% of the feild were Affinity or Goblins, I'm sure there would be 2-4 top8's of one of those archetypes as well. Numbers also make a difference, which on top of playskill (and deck power) shows why CS is having consistant and multiple top8's.......and bomberman 

[dicemanx]

There were a total of about 3 Bomberman decks, and they sliced through the field, so you cannot rely on that argument. In fact, it further cements the fact that its a top deck in the environment, because these results have been reproducible.

[Kowal]

Bomberman is also ridiculously fun to pilot, for what it's worth.  I seriously had my list laid out for day two until I saw the field and decided to run CS again.

[LotusHead]

Out here on the West Coast, Bob TPS variants are the top decks, both by the sheer number of people playing and the quality of the players playing it.

I wonder how TPS and it's pilots would perform in the SCGp9 series.

That said, I am happy that Bomberman is getting some respect. 

[Mr. Nightmare]

I love the idea behind the Bomberman decks, and I love watching the Canadians play it.  I never lost to it in Rochester (I played it 3 or 4 times, I think, on the weekend) but I can see it's a crazy strong deck in the right hands.

[Implacable]

There were a total of about 3 Bomberman decks, and they sliced through the field, so you cannot rely on that argument. In fact, it further cements the fact that its a top deck in the environment, because these results have been reproducible.

Could you either explicate the Bomberman deck a little bit or point me towards a thread that does so?  The search results that I got were unsatisfactory.

[dicemanx]

There were a total of about 3 Bomberman decks, and they sliced through the field, so you cannot rely on that argument. In fact, it further cements the fact that its a top deck in the environment, because these results have been reproducible.

Could you either explicate the Bomberman deck a little bit or point me towards a thread that does so?  The search results that I got were unsatisfactory.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=28699.60

[LordHomerCat]

Yeah, don't worry about that.  We'll never see the day of 4 Grim Long in a top 8. 

Well, if a few things had gone different Saturday, like you winning a match you lost, and me not getting matched up with Paul... it could have been last week =]

[Dakkon]

I've seen that Gifts isn't played very much anymore....why is that?

It is a good deck is it not?

[B166ER]

I've seen that Gifts isn't played very much anymore....why is that?

It is a good deck is it not?

I'm pretty sure the errata of Time Vault killed its popularity.

[dicemanx]

I've seen that Gifts isn't played very much anymore....why is that?

It is a good deck is it not?

I'm pretty sure the errata of Time Vault killed its popularity.

It was never that popular to begin with, but it remains a very strong archetype in my opinion. We'll just have to let the pundits call it "dead" before resurrecting it at some point down the line.

[B166ER]

I've seen that Gifts isn't played very much anymore....why is that?

It is a good deck is it not?

I'm pretty sure the errata of Time Vault killed its popularity.

It was never that popular to begin with, but it remains a very strong archetype in my opinion. We'll just have to let the pundits call it "dead" before resurrecting it at some point down the line.

Well I was just repeating what I've heard/read (probably on these boards as I never read about Vintage anywhere else).

[Dakkon]

For drain decks, what are some reasons why CS is played ALOT more than Gifts?

[Dante]

For drain decks, what are some reasons why CS is played ALOT more than Gifts?

Goblin Welder and better publicity/more high placements in big tournaments.

I have a question for Stephen - it seems like in the past (2004, early-mid 2005), Paragons/Meandeck identified the best 1-2 decks for the metagame and then your whole team played that deck (e.g. Oath at that Rochester).  But recently (late 2005-present), it seems everyone seems to play what suits their style best (i.e. Kevin and Roland play Stax, you play the newest creation or Grim Long, Paul plays Grim Long, Lian plays some sort of Fish or Suicide-type deck, etc).

Whereas before, it seemed like there was more of a "this is the best deck [or two] at the moment, so we should play that" instead of now, which seems to have less coherence, so the strategy seems to be "play the deck you know inside and out as that's more important than new 'tech' ".

[Shock Wave]

Whereas before, it seemed like there was more of a "this is the best deck [or two] at the moment, so we should play that" instead of now, which seems to have less coherence, so the strategy seems to be "play the deck you know inside and out as that's more important than new 'tech' ".

It seems like Steve has given up on the whole "metagame coherence/best deck" argument. There is no best deck, and the fact that there is no metagame coherence is concrete proof of this. Players that pilot their decks expertly make decks seem as though they are the best, but there is not a single one that stands above the crowd. If, at any point in time, a single deck stands above all others as "The Best Deck", then it is an indication that action needs to be taken in the form of B&R List changes.

[Guli]

I agree that there is no 'best deck' but there are sure as hell a lot decks that are designed that are capable of outplaying a lot of other decks in any metagame. There is always the core of a deck. Making some changes here and there in function of your meta doesn't change the deck's archetype

[Wagner]

Could you either explicate the Bomberman deck a little bit or point me towards a thread that does so?  The search results that I got were unsatisfactory.

The complete Bomberman primer should be out by the end of the week, as soon as I finish writing it.

As for the bests decks, I would definitely go for CS sonce in the hands of an experience player, this decks is simply very stable and broken most of the time, simply look at how many Top 8 Kowal and Ugo Rivard did with that deck.

Even though I am still very unfamilar with Grim Long, I saw what the deck is capable of doing and it impressed me quite a bit, but I guess it requires at LOT a skill to play flawlessly.