[Single Card Discussion] Jester's Scepter

[hazard]

As with every new set, we Vintage folks love to scour the spoilers for anything that might be playable in the format.  Usually, this is a meager, if not lost cause.  This seems to especially be the case with Coldsnap.  Besides the Perilous Research thread, there has been nary a glimmer.  And so I'll throw Jester's Scepter out here for review and assault.

Here is the text for Jester's Scepter per spoiler:

Artifact  3
When Jester's Scepter comes into play, remove the top five cards of target player's library from the game face down. You may look at those cards as long as they remain removed from the game.
2T: Put a card removed from the game with Jester's Scepter into its owner's graveyard: Counter target spell if it has the same name as that card.

Pro: you are removing one twelfth of someone's deck from the game, the mana cost is reasonable, you may hit a win condition, Weldable, Tinkerable, counter ability
Con: the five cards you are removing are top deck and not selected, Misdirect-able?, uses a slot in your deck

Is this card at all usable in the format?  Could a Workshop and/or Welder deck run this to remove chunks of an opponents deck from the game?  I am seeing the counter ability of the artifact as nearly useless, but the removal aspect as somewhat functional.

Or is it a reaching, unwieldy novelty that will never see play?

Cheers

[pyr0ma5ta]

This card is simply inefficient.  If you want to remove stuff, use cap.  If you want to mill them, welding in Jar is way faster.

[Tin_Mox5831]

It likely won't see any serious play, but who knows? It has a neat effect that can be useful. I'd like to Weld this into play once my opponent has Brainstormed, nailing the gas they were hiding! 

[The Atog Lord]

I don't think this will see Type One play. Its effect is like a Jester's Cap but you don't pick the cards. Milling isn't really viable in Type One. Yes, you might get lucky and hit something good. Or you could hit nothing worthwhile. Heck, they might even respond to the ability with a Brainstorm! Sure, maybe you can win if you weld this in and out a whole bunch, but there are other cards that do that too, much better cards.

[LotusHead]

I don't think this will see Type One play. Its effect is like a Jester's Cap but you don't pick the cards. Milling isn't really viable in Type One.

Milling is filling your opponent's graveyard. RFG'ing 5 cards for 3 Shop mana isn't bad (not anyworse than say, playing Mox Pearl)

It's the RFG'ing that can hurt tutor based deckes.  Who knows?

[LordHomerCat]

I don't think this will see Type One play. Its effect is like a Jester's Cap but you don't pick the cards. Milling isn't really viable in Type One.

Milling is filling your opponent's graveyard. RFG'ing 5 cards for 3 Shop mana isn't bad (not anyworse than say, playing Mox Pearl)

It's the RFG'ing that can hurt tutor based deckes.  Who knows?

Really?  RFG's 5 cards for 3 mana (well, one land tap) is playable?  I can't believe that, when cards like Smokestack are being dropped for not doing enough.  This card doesn't seem like it does, well, anything.  If you are gonna deck someone by welding it a lot, why not use Triskelion, who is actually good against other things?  If you are just gonna play it once and mill them for 5... well, I don't even have a better suggestion, because doing literally anything else would be better than just randomly milling your opponent.  I don't see any potential for this card, personally.

[warble]

worldgorger dragon perhaps?  It's great protection, plus it's not dead like ambassador and the fire spitters...  I wouldn't be so quick to discount any card that has a "remove from game" clause...especially one that only costs colorless mana to play AND activate.  No, workshop welder wouldn't love this card so much, but I think you're severely underestimating the protective aspect and the random "I win" aspect of this card.  I'm not just playing devil's advocate, I actually think this card has some serious potential.  Just cuz you think it needs to be out on turn 1 doesn't mean that's the eventual use of the card...think about it...it's a win condition, not a friggin early game disruption card like in workshop...

[xycsoscyx]

I like the card, but I do agree that it has it's job cut out for it in Vintage.  One arguement I've heard against it is that Vintage runs so many singletons that it won't make a difference if 5 are RFG'ed, but that's the biggest plus right there.  Removing Ancestral or Will can really hurt (if not devastate) some decks.  The best aspects of the card is that A, the cards are all RFG; B, it's a triggered ability, Null Rods and the like don't affect it, if it comes into play, it triggers; C, the cards (according to the spoiler and picture I saw) are all RFG FACE DOWN, your opponent won't even get to know what was RFG'ed!  In Vintage, who knows, but the card really is a great card, and I'm at least going to try it out in some decks. 

[pyr0ma5ta]

It's actually terrible in Dragon, as you can't animate it.

[Glix]

I would not be so quick to discount this card.  It has interesting applications.  First of all, rfging 5 cards face down alone is a much more potent effect (in my limited testing) than one would think.  Combo decks and Gifts decks often rely on an intricate amount of exact cards to pull themselves off, and when some one demonic tutors for a card thats not there, it gets very interesting.

Secondly, this card does have a 2nd effect, which, while not occuring often, can be devesating in some circumnstances.

Finally, welder makes this card, in a stax like deck, quite good quite fast.

I am not saying that this is OMGTEHBROKEN, but it has power, and it should be tested.

[Guli]

i don't know about you guys but i believe the GOOD decks out there run cards that are important to a deck. There will probably be a broken restriced card with the 5 cards.(Will,Tinker,Recall,..) and there will definitly be 1 4 off (Force,drain,brainstorm,...) When you cast a FoF don't you somethimes get such strong broken stuf...?

I would love to have a permanent that can counter 4 offs in the opponent deck. And randomly taking out win conditions is always a nice bonus. It does cost 3 mana though. And maybe that is what bothering most people here. It is a great tool but is it worth the 3 mana?

I want to add that in the latest sets there are really cool and powerfull cards but the mana costs are always a little expensive. After all it is Vintage and speed is so important. You might not get 2 turns.. And i don't think these new cards (although powerfull, like really good) are going to have an impact on Vintage. Or maybe we need ways to get mana even faster and more. Or really slow down the game? Yes there are cards that really slow down the game but usually these kinda cards also mess with you. Arcane lab,Stasis,Winter Orb,..
Time walk is the only card that does not mess you up while slowing down the opponent. You simply DENIE him to play his turn

[LordHomerCat]

It does seem good to counter your opponent's spells.  But, to "maybe" counter a spell, and "maybe" luck out and hit some restricted card, well, that doesn't sound very good to me.  Why not play a card that does something?  Jester's Cap lets you pick the cards, for only a nominal amount more.  It is guaranteed to remove what you want to get rid of, instead of just randomly taking 5 cards and hoping they are good.  Spending 3 mana and a card to remove 3 lands, a mox, and some random singleton does not seem like a good deal to me, but thats just my opinion.  If you are recurring it with welder, run Trike or Cap instead and just win.  If you are casting it later in the game, like off non-shop mana, why don't you just cast Thirst or Tinker or Will or Gifts and actually win the game?  This card does nothing in Dragon, as that deck already has some terrific win conditions which don't rely on a 3mana artifact hitting play first (Witness, cunning Wish, even Hellkite or Orzhov Guildmage in 5color).

If this is your win condition, you really have taken statements like Brassman's claim that he could win with Mishra's Factories in Gifts too far.  Why don't you play a card that actually does something (4 mana gets you a Juggernaut, which doesn't need welder support and kills in 4 turns, not 14).  When are you going to want this instead of Tangle Wire or Smokestack or Chalice or Sphere, or in non-shop decks, instead of any blue draw spell or Will or Tinker or a tutor or a draw7 or any good card in a current deck?  Given the choice between winning the game and removing 5 cards, I know what I'd pick.

A permanent that could regularly counter your opponent's spells would be good.  This is not it, as you must get lucky to counter even one spell a game with it.  If you're that interested in the idea, run Null Brooch.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Am I reading correctly that you know which cards are removed and your opponent does not?

It actually seems fairly useful to me because it forces your opponent to tutor or crack a fetchland to figure out what they lost.  Not that it's necessarily worth playing in this format, but I'd definitely think hard about playing it in 1.5.  5 mana just does better things here than *maybe* screwing over your opponent.

[nightmare]

i think that the card will see play in stax and control slaver with welder you could have a lot of fun with it. i know that i am going to play test with it at the next few mox tournaments that i go to.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong! Failed to notice we have a set of rules over here, did ya? Every one of your posts breaks some (and in some cases all) of rules 1.2 (all lower case post), 1.3 (run-on sentences), 1.4 (no punctuation breaks), 1.5 (no paragraph breaks), 1.8 (incorrect spelling), 1.9 (excessive abbreviations), 4 (lack of content), and 6 (using red bold text). Way to earn your nickname. Consider yourself warned, and recommended for banning. Welcome to TMD!

- Bram