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Author Topic: Spelltithe  (Read 1740 times)
parallax
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« on: August 29, 2006, 11:43:22 am »

Spelltithe
{1} {W}
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays {2}.

This card is obviously inspired by the design contest. This is the first thing I though of when I read the question. It fits into white's taxing theme, so I think its okay even though blue is still the counterspelling color. I've always wondered why counterspelling isn't allowed to bleed into the other colors, if only slightly.
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Anusien
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2006, 01:55:45 pm »

Unfortunately, we have to play by the rules of Magic as they already exist, and this is too close to Rune Snag and Mana Leak.  Some alternatives would be an enchantment like "Counter all spells unless their controller pays 2" (which is Nether Void like, but definitely a white ability) or putting some sort of similar thing on a creature "All spells cost 1 more".
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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2006, 05:50:01 pm »

Why not give it the wording on Spelltithe Enforcer?
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parallax
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2006, 11:49:00 am »

I am actually advocating this card from a non-hypothetical standpoint. It fits in to white "taxing" theme. The way I see it, white can impose additional costs on whatever it wants. You've already said that it would be fine to have this effect on an enchantment or a creature, so why can't white get this effect on an instant? If "Counter all spells unless their controller pays {2}." is a white ability, then "Counter target spell unless its controller pays {2}." should be a white ability as well. Why is its similarity to Mana Leak and Rune Snag a problem? If it's too strong for a "off-color" effect, the casting cost can be upped to {2} {W}.

I'm not going to push this card too hard, but I'd like to see what people's thoughts are. Frankly, if a card like this got printed in an upcoming set, it wouldn't surprise me at all.
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Anusien
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2006, 12:14:34 pm »

Because this ability was recently put on a blue card?  Rune Snag and Mana Leak.  Instants to counter spells for mana is blue.  If you approach it from a slight angle (from a prison theme instead of counter-based control), it can be white, but that's like trying to get:
1W
Enchantment
All players play with their hands revealed.

You're trying to exactly duplicate something very blue.
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2006, 01:15:40 pm »

So Terashi's Grasp was a mistake because it's similar to Naturalize? There's no rule that says colors can't have the same effect if it fits both their themes. Counterspelling as metamagic is blue. Counterspelling as taxing is white.

The question isn't "Does this spell fit into blue?". The question is "Does this spell fit into white?". I don't think those questions are mutually exclusive.
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zeus-online
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2006, 01:31:33 pm »

This counter is so obviosly blue, blue is the only color that gets counterspells. Maybe if you made it like a  "Seal of mana leak" or something...but i really dont think they'd print that, and certainly not in white.

/Zeus
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2006, 03:21:03 pm »

Quote from: MaRo, The Great White Way
The second of white's "tools" is civil laws. These are rules set up to make sure that the individual does not upset the greater good of the group. White believes that the good of society is more important than the rights of a single individual. The laws white creates help ensure that the group is protected. White’s fervor in this area leads white to use politics and the judicial system.

This desire to protect and create rules defines much of white’s mechanics. White’s defensive nature can be seen throughout the color: life gain, healing, damage prevention, attacker removal, protection, defensive enchantments, enchantment removal, etc. In the past year, white R&D has taken a look at expanding white’s pie by finding more mechanics that tie into white’s core flavor. The richest area proved to be the “making rules” part of the color. As such, we’ve moved both taxing (Propaganda-type spells where you stop you’re opponent from doing something unless he pays a price) and rule-setting enchantments (global enchantments that shift the rules and restrict how players can play, such as Rising Waters) into white. This shift began subtlety in Onslaught and will be ramping up in upcoming sets.
Emphasis mine.

Basically. White is saying "You want to do that? Fine. But first you have to fill out form 126B and pay a tax of 2 mana." I know this is a blue mechanic. I also believe, in this one instance, that "unless its controller pays {2}" makes it also a white mechanic. Nowhere in the color pie does it say blue is the only color that gets counterspells. The color pie only says blue gets counterspells because blue understands how magic works better than the other colors. This counterspell doesn't work like that. This card isn't white saying, I've messed with the magic of your spell so it doesn't work. This is white saying, you're not allowed to do that unless you pay a tariff. Which is a very white thing to say.

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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2006, 07:28:46 pm »

It's blue because of the timing. Taxing is white, but surprise taxing isn't. Spelltithe Enforcer is white, Glowrider is white, Nether Void could be redone in white (counters spells, don't ya know!), but Mana Leak is blue.
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF
----------------------
SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary
SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right
SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar
----------------------
noitcelfeRmaeT
{Team Hindsight}
jro
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2006, 09:43:08 pm »

parallax, I agree and was thinking the same thing when I was looking at that question.  From a purely flavor standpoint, I don't see any reason why this (or something similar) couldn't be done.  But there's also a lot of tradition for keeping this sort of thing in blue, not to mention that adding this would give white everything in Magic except maybe efficient fatties.  I agree that counterspelling should be put in other colors besides blue, but I'm not sure that this is the best way to do it.

I think I agree with Zeus that this works better as a seal:

Seal of Leak
1W
Enchantment
Sacrifice this: Counter target spell unless its controller pays 3.

Or maybe something like:

One-Time Fee
1W
Enchantment
Your opponents cannot play spells.
2: Sacrifice this.  Any player may play this ability.
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Anusien
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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2006, 10:25:11 pm »

Do One-Time Fee, but make it symmetrical.
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zeus-online
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2006, 10:10:38 am »

That'd fit the flavor Smile

Seal of leak is waaaay too good anyway.

/Zeus
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