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Author Topic: Deck Stacking and Marking Cards (legally?)  (Read 1005 times)
Harlequin
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« on: August 31, 2006, 08:51:19 am »

Ok, lets suppose I am useing tops and Thrumming Stone to ripple wildly thought my deck.  I have a more or less arbitrary ammount of mana... Lets say I have all 4 tops in play and enough mana to eventually ripple my entire deck a bunch of times.

Can I fan my deck onto the play serface, face down, with the cards partially overlapping so there is a clear top, and a clear bottom.  Then as a ripple, when I choose to put cards on the bottom of my library, have spesfic cards poked out or face up so i can track thier movement through the deck?  I would be doing this so as I start to ripple them back to the top, I can make sure that "marked" card eventually ends up as the top card of my library. So I can eventually draw the card I have "marked" usening a sensei's top.

It is totally possible to use Addition and subtraction to deturmin where a spesific card is in my deck at any given itteration of my rippling.  So I wouldn't be gaining any information that is unknown.  It is just a short-hand way to track a card without needing a pen and paper to track it's possition in the deck.  I almost feel like useing pen and paper would start to infinge on Delay of game, because I would have to run some numbers each time I rippled.

Is this "marking" a card cheating? or a short-cut?    would useing pen and paper to calculate a card in my deck delay of game?
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ashiXIII
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2006, 11:44:53 am »

Ok, lets suppose I am useing tops and Thrumming Stone to ripple wildly thought my deck.  I have a more or less arbitrary ammount of mana... Lets say I have all 4 tops in play and enough mana to eventually ripple my entire deck a bunch of times.

Can I fan my deck onto the play serface, face down, with the cards partially overlapping so there is a clear top, and a clear bottom.  Then as a ripple, when I choose to put cards on the bottom of my library, have spesfic cards poked out or face up so i can track thier movement through the deck?  I would be doing this so as I start to ripple them back to the top, I can make sure that "marked" card eventually ends up as the top card of my library. So I can eventually draw the card I have "marked" usening a sensei's top.

It is totally possible to use Addition and subtraction to deturmin where a spesific card is in my deck at any given itteration of my rippling.  So I wouldn't be gaining any information that is unknown.  It is just a short-hand way to track a card without needing a pen and paper to track it's possition in the deck.  I almost feel like useing pen and paper would start to infinge on Delay of game, because I would have to run some numbers each time I rippled.

Is this "marking" a card cheating? or a short-cut?    would useing pen and paper to calculate a card in my deck delay of game?

Unfortunately, you wouldn't be allowed to mark the card to track it. You'd have to keep track of it mentally, or with pen and paper. If you're using pen and paper, I recommend doing it very quickly, as you can get slow play penalties for it. (You're using time and you're not doing anything to advance the game state.)
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parallax
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2006, 11:51:26 am »

Do you only need to keep track of one card? Because it should be easy to add up/count how far down it is each time. When you put it on the bottom, simply count (once) how many cards from the top it is. Every time you ripple, subtract four. You can track multiple cards this way fairly simply as well. Keep a count of how many cards are in your library as you ripple as well, to speed it up further. Then, just goldfish and practice this as much as possible so you're good at it by the time the tournament comes around.
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How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.
Harlequin
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2006, 11:56:15 am »

Ok, follow up question.  

Lets say im doing my thing, and keeping track with a pen and paper.  and after a few ripples my opponent says "Hey I have an effect when the Brainfreeze (that you reveiled) is back on top of your library.  I'm not required to tell them right?  I can just say "you have to keep track for yourself" right?  

Oh also on a similar note, I can choose the order for the cards I put back.. but do I have to reveal the order?


@ Paralax.  hrmm, I thought it would be more complex than that because Top would change the number of cards between the top and the card I want.  But I guess it actually doesnt.  I was thinking that I was going to need to do some screwing with the deck based on the # of cards Mod 4, and brainstorms.  But actaully I don't because I can choose the order.
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parallax
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2006, 01:11:34 pm »

You do not have to reveal the order you place cards into a hidden zone.

If your opponent does figure out which card is where, he still has to keep track of where it is on his own. However, I believe that all notes taken during a match are public knowledge. He can watch you keep track on your notes.
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How about choosing a non-legend creature? Otherwise he is a UG instant Wrath of Frog.
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