Machinus
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« on: August 27, 2006, 11:26:15 pm » |
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I'm wondering how much this effect is worth. I'm also wondering how R&D is going to cost it in the upcoming set.
As a guess for question #2:
3UU, Buyback 2U
updated guess:
3UU, Buyback: 2U, sacrifice two permanents
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« Last Edit: August 28, 2006, 06:34:47 pm by Machinus »
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Anusien
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« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2006, 11:49:04 pm » |
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4UU. Time Warp is 3UU, and the potential for buyback has to add at least one mana.
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Jacob Orlove
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« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2006, 01:18:55 am » |
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What makes you assume it's Walk? Buyback Twister would work just fine, since it doesn't make it back to your hand until after you reshuffle, and buyback Ancestral would be totally easy to do.
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Charlie
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« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2006, 06:33:21 am » |
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They already made a buyback ancestral. It is called Whipser of the Muse.
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Toad
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« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2006, 06:47:07 am » |
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Well Whispers of the Muse is a 18 mana Ancestral Recall with Buyback, thats not really impressive.
Buyback Time Walk seems fine, but at 6 mana (likely, see above) it wouldnt be that good. Time Stop is the current T2 Time Walk and no one plays it because its too expensive. Time Warp hardly saw play in Extended except in some Comboish decks like Zvi Turboland.
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zeus-online
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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2006, 09:52:15 am » |
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Time walk with buyback would need to be insanely overcosted, since it says "You win the game if you have X mana".
/Zeus
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habragg
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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 11:31:13 am » |
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Unless the buyback cost was "pay 5 life."
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Nazdakka
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« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2006, 12:33:13 pm » |
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I'm wondering how much this effect is worth. I'm also wondering how R&D is going to cost it in the upcoming set.
As a guess for question #2:
3UU, Buyback 2U
A buyback Time Walk is totally unprintable with any mana-only buyback cost, because it flat-out wins the game once it gets going. I feel Time Walk is unlikely to be the P9 buyback card for exactly this reason - many, many buyback resources can be generated recursively once you know what you want. Whispers of the Muse is a buyback Ancestral as noted above, buyback moxen are obviously silly, and Lotus would have to be seriously wierd in order to become buyback card. So I think it's Timetwister. If you put buyback at the end of the card, you twist and then return the spell to your hand, which would be kinda cool, and if they costed it high it would be pretty safe (noone played Temporal Cascade). |
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Jank Golem
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« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2006, 12:42:58 pm » |
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I think it is very likely it will be a buyback Time Walk given the similiar artwork to it that was at gencon. Look at the second post on this thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=49678. A buyback Time walk would not be overpowered assuming its not to overcosted, I think 4UU buyback 2U is perfectly fair. |
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Machinus
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« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2006, 12:53:36 pm » |
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4UU. Time Warp is 3UU, and the potential for buyback has to add at least one mana.
I don't see why R&D would have a problem with obsoleting Time Warp. It's an unimportant card from a time when magic design worked completely differently. And as Toad mentioned, Time Stop cost six mana and is not heavily played. The argument against a mana-only buyback cost is strong. However, paying life seems out of flavor for a card with such a blue-heavy cost. What about sacrificing two permanents? |
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Nazdakka
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« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2006, 01:04:59 pm » |
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I think it is very likely it will be a buyback Time Walk given the similiar artwork to it that was at gencon. Look at the second post on this thread: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=49678. A buyback Time walk would not be overpowered assuming its not to overcosted, I think 4UU buyback 2U is perfectly fair. 9 mana for 'Win target game'? That's obscene. Even Tooth and Nail required a fair bit of effort and a few turns to win the game once it resolved. Door to Nothingness is a closer comparison, and that requires 5 mana, pass the turn, then 10 mana of specific colours. If it is Time Walk, which I'm really not convinced about, I would guess it would have a buyback cost such that it simply cannot be sustained indefinitely. That means not mana, not life, not discard, and probably not 'sacrifice ~x~'. If I had to guess on a fair buyback cost for a 6 mana Time Walk, it would be 'remove the top 15 cards of your library from the game', in which case it's kinda like Battle of Wits #5-8. EDIT: As for the art, perhaps there IS a Time Walk knockoff, but it's not the buyback p9 card? |
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« Last Edit: August 28, 2006, 01:10:03 pm by Nazdakka »
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« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2006, 01:26:12 pm » |
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It seems very likely that it has something to do with taking additional turns.
However, if the card has buyback, it almost "CANNOT" be just a mana buyback cost. It would be absurd to have a card that comboed with merely mana and said
Mana + said card = gg.
IT would have to be a buyback that forced you to lose permenents, cards in library, or life in order to get it back.
That art if fing sweet.
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2006, 01:26:56 pm » |
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The art is amazing. So many good memories. I really like them using the old Time Walk style on a new card.
Just imagine how this card would look like Asian foil..
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2006, 02:13:34 pm » |
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Damn right that art is amazing...i'm gonna get me a foil one, even if it sucks. Time walk w/buyback...are you guys saying that they're gonna print something like that?  Don't read spoilers, so i wouldnt know  /Zeus *Note: I don't read 'em 'cause it takes some of the fun out of the prerelease. |
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Hi-Val
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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2006, 04:55:29 pm » |
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I'm guessing that the buyback is not just mana. I could see it being something like 8-10 life. Wizards really doesn't like making 1-mana combos, so I think it's nuts for people to think that this thing is mana-only.
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« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2006, 06:15:57 pm » |
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I love the time walk guys. They are my heros.
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freakish777
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« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2006, 12:55:20 am » |
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The Orb of Insight reports the word Ancestral appearing exactly twice in TS. Current Oracle wording on buyback cards have the name of the card in the reminder text of the buyback mechanic. The word Time appears 107 times...
I think it may actually be:
Ancestral somethingorother
3UU
Sorcery (instant? I highly doubt an instant since they'd said no mass card drawing at instant speed, and on a buyback card it would be nuts, end step draw 3 into another, then start buying back...)
(target player) Draw(s) 3 Cards
Buyback 1UU
Other Orb of Insight things that are interesting:
Buyback appears 7 times
Storm appears 5 times (yes Storm is back)
Flashback appears 23 times
Jaya appears 3 times (not as interesting, but I know people love flavor text from her)
Urza's appears twice
Yawgmoth's sadly does not appear, neither does Mox.
EDIT:
The word Extra appears exactly once. That word in rules text only ever makes it onto "Take(s) an extra turn" cards, so you can pretty much assume there will be atleast one Time Walk variant, regardless of whether or not is has the buyback.
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« Last Edit: August 29, 2006, 01:02:48 am by freakish777 »
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chrissss
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« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2006, 04:09:18 am » |
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Thanks Yank Golem, that link was great.
I cant work to buy the new time walk, because that art is a ma zing.
I hope they check the storm though, so its not too broken.
anyway, on topic again.
time walk with sacrifice a permanent buyback would be more balanced.
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Yes,Tarmogoyf is probably better than Chameleon Colossus, but comparing it to Tarmogoyf is like comparing your girlfriend to Carmen Electra - one's versatile and reliable, the other's just big and cheap.(And you'd run both if you could get away with)
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zeus-online
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« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2006, 09:32:43 am » |
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Time walk with storm :lol:
That'd be the day....
/Zeus
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Toad
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« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2006, 09:47:02 am » |
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MTGSalvation reports this as a 4UU Time Walk with "Sacrifice 3 Islands" as Buyback cost.
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Nazdakka
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« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2006, 10:13:36 am » |
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MTGSalvation reports this as a 4UU Time Walk with "Sacrifice 3 Islands" as Buyback cost.
Meh. That's not awful, but it's not earth-shattering either. If we get some Exploration-type effects then it might be very interesting with Life from the Loam. |
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Machinus
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« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2006, 11:44:07 am » |
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That sounds reasonable to me. Where did you find that info Toad?
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« Last Edit: August 29, 2006, 11:50:02 am by Machinus »
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Venven
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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2006, 04:14:10 am » |
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That artwork makes me think it's something like "Buyback - Target opponent gains an extra turn after this one." but that obviously doesn't work. I'll be seriously disappointed if it is just "Buyback - Sacrifice 3 islands."
Edit: What it really makes me think of is a Time Vault that switches control.
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« Last Edit: August 31, 2006, 04:38:27 am by Venven »
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freakish777
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« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2006, 02:53:29 pm » |
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MTGSalvation reports this as a 4UU Time Walk with "Sacrifice 3 Islands" as Buyback cost.
Meh. That's not awful, but it's not earth-shattering either. If we get some Exploration-type effects then it might be very interesting with Life from the Loam. Crucible is back in 9th remember... I highly doubt we'll get an Exploration varient. If we do, I'm fairly positive there will be bannings galore as I already have a deck cooked up without a Buyback Time Walk that would be ridiculous with Exploration, Summer Bloom, etc. |
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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2006, 03:08:50 pm » |
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Life from the Loam is also in Timespiral T2 |
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chrissss
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2006, 04:59:30 am » |
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Walk of Aeons   Sorcery Target player gains an additional turn after this one. Buyback - sacrifice three islands (You may sacrifice three islands in addition to any other costs as you play this spell. If you do, put Walk of Aeons into your hand instead of your graveyard as part of its resolution.) this is the real one http://www.mtgsalvation.com/spoiler/time-spiral/#1175 |
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Yes,Tarmogoyf is probably better than Chameleon Colossus, but comparing it to Tarmogoyf is like comparing your girlfriend to Carmen Electra - one's versatile and reliable, the other's just big and cheap.(And you'd run both if you could get away with)
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freakish777
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« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2006, 12:38:12 am » |
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Life from the Loam is also in Timespiral T2 Unfortunately LftL doesn't work as hot as Crucible would (plus Exploration is what would really make the deck nutty, not Crucible/LftL). The 1/2 Legend and LftL are what I'm currently using, but the Legend dies to Shock, and the LftL legimately could deck me, as I want to use it almost every turn once things get rolling. |
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