Envelop in Waves

[orgcandman]

Envelop in Waves
U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Permanent
Enchanted permanent is a Land - Island (It loses all other types, super-types, and subtypes)
2U: Return Envelop in Waves to its owner's hand. Any player may play this ability.


Is it blue removal? Is it blue acceleration? Blue mana fixing? What is it? My own opinion: Hilarious, but not overpowered. A good stalll tactic against creatures, which is about all blue can do.

Current Wording:
Envelop in Waves
2U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Permanent
Enchanted permanent is a land and an Island (It loses all other types, and subtypes)
1U: Return Envelop in Waves to its owner's hand. Any player may play this ability.

[parallax]

Eww. . . you made a mess.

First, this needs to cost more than . For the time being, I'm going to view this as a sort of complicated reusable bounce spell, it removes a permanent temporarily. As such, it should cost at least , but probably more, as it seems more powerful than Regress.

Second, I don't know if messing with super-types is a good idea. Granted, now that Snow is a supertype, Arcum's Weathervane can add or remove supertypes, so it might be okay. At least, if you're going to remove super-types, you should give the permanent the super-type basic.

Third, I'm not 100% sure, but I think the wording should be something like: "Enchanted permanent is a land, an island, loses all supertypes and is basic."

[Anusien]

You can get rid of the reminder text, since Blood Moon works the same way.  Just word it

I don't know, this seems sort of meh to me.

Oh wait, this can enchant anything.

Take a look at Maroon, and see how to get a printable card out of that + this.

[orgcandman]

A good point was made in, "What if this hits another aura"

Well, in fact, that aura will no longer be attached to whatever permanent, and if this gets bounced, the island goes back to being an aura and dies to SBE.

Ok, knowing that this is fairly strong, and can do some fun/funny things, I want to cost this competitively so that johnny and timmy AND spike want to use this card, but not have it be abusive.

The first order then, was is an appropriate cost for the ability to turn one permanent into another totally.

Seas claim lets us know that the cost for turniing one land into another is about 1 mana
Moat lets us know that removing abilities from creatures and turning them into something different is about 4 mana.
Licids let us know that having the ability to turn a creature into an enchantment is about 3 mana for the creature, and varying amounts for the transformation starting at 1 mana and going forward.

My thought is that this is basically a worse licid without legs, and as such, the cost for the effect should be cheaper. Say, 1U. The bounce cost can be paid by anyone, but I wanted it to be something that would at least make this something worth using, so I want the bounce to stay a 2U at least. Perhaps more colorless mana.

As for wording, I realize that this is relatively new-ish ground, but perhaps wording such as
"Enchanted permanent is a Land - Island (It loses other types and subtypes)" is good enough. I don't feel that I should be changing supertypes, and I also don't want to make the land basic, as that would have supertype implications. I could word it such: "Enchanted permanent is a Land - Island, and has the Basic supertype" as an alternate approach. This could also make your snow permanents into snow covered lands (schwing!).

One other question is, would this be better to have the bounce effect do something similar to bouncing both the aura and the enchanted permanent? Would it be better to have it bounce the enchanted permanent and kill the aura? What's an appropriate cost / effect for the bounce ability?

[parallax]

This card has little to do with Licids, aside from creating similar rules complications. This is a removal spell, straight up. It should be costed similarly to Frozen Solid, Arrest, etc. At least three mana.

The correct wording if you wish to leave supertypes alone is "Enchanted permanent is a land and an island." "Land -- Island" has no meaning outside the type line.

[orgcandman]

This card has little to do with Licids, aside from creating similar rules complications. This is a removal spell, straight up. It should be costed similarly to Frozen Solid, Arrest, etc. At least three mana.

It's not the same kind of removal spell, though; it's a temporary removal spell. See Lost in Thought for my reasoning to have it cost UU. If others share the belief that it should be costed at 3, then I'll do so.

The correct wording if you wish to leave supertypes alone is "Enchanted permanent is a land and an island." "Land -- Island" has no meaning outside the type line.

Fixed.

Also, I've made it bounce both the enchanted permanent and the enchantment, so that it won't remove other aura's.

[parallax]

This card has little to do with Licids, aside from creating similar rules complications. This is a removal spell, straight up. It should be costed similarly to Frozen Solid, Arrest, etc. At least three mana.

It's not the same kind of removal spell, though; it's a temporary removal spell. See Lost in Thought for my reasoning to have it cost UU. If others share the belief that it should be costed at 3, then I'll do so.

The correct wording if you wish to leave supertypes alone is "Enchanted permanent is a land and an island." "Land -- Island" has no meaning outside the type line.

Fixed.

Also, I've made it bounce both the enchanted permanent and the enchantment, so that it won't remove other aura's.

Correction: It was temporary. The recent change has made it permanent removal. They have to recast their guy, then you can recast EiW, so they never get to use their guy. If you bounce just the enchantment, they can use their guy every other turn to attack or tap, but never to block. If you bounce just the guy, then the enchantment dies and it very temporary.

Aside from that. 3 mana > 3 card in graveyard. Especially when you have to tap the enchanted permanent to generate the blue mana for any non-blue deck.

Your reminder text is wrong. The card will not lose its supertypes unless you specifically word the card to do so. Tolarian Academy under Blood Moon is "Legendary Land -- Mountain".

Do you realize you've just created a cheaper Capsize?

[orgcandman]

fixed.

[orgcandman]

24h clock?