[Single card discussion] Trickbind

[chrissss]

Trickbind 
Instant
Split second (As long as this spell is on the stack, players can't play spells or activated abilities that aren't mana abilities.)
Counter target activated or triggered ability.
Activated or triggered abilities cannot be played by that card until end of turn.


I love this card. No more do you have to worry about Tendrils with this card. Yes, its more expensive with stifle, so first turn stifles will be harder, but what you get in return is great: An Uncounterable Stifle with another ability that can be used against other cards.

Also, Stifle doesnt counter mana abilities, this baby does

ps: Where has the spellcheck button gone? The mods are going to warn me a lot...

[The Atog Lord]

Also, Stifle doesnt counter mana abilities, this baby does

Mana abilities don't use the stack and cannot be countered.

[Gabethebabe]

So what they originally tried to do with Interdict, now they´ve done it.

Activated or triggered abilities cannot be played by that card until end of turn.

Why doesn´t it say: "Activated abilities cannot be played by that card until end of turn."

Because Triggered abilities can not be played....

[keys]

This is going to give Tendrils a run for its money.  I expect Fish to be at an all time high post-Time Spiral.

[Keno]

I don't think this card will be much better then Stifle against combo. They will usually Duress you before going off. It might be good against a deck like Gifts however since they don't pack any Duresses maindeck and try to protect there kill with couterspells.

[sundering jerk]

This cards is incredible, pitchlong wont be a tier1 deck for long. I am so very happy now!

[wethepeople]

This cards is incredible, pitchlong wont be a tier1 deck for long. I am so very happy now!

I can't see this card having such great impact on Long, but i am sure it will help Fish out greatly. I plan to use this before it actually becomes feared by combo players, because soon it will be known by just about everyone. Go Trickbind!


//wtp.

[sundering jerk]

This cards is incredible, pitchlong wont be a tier1 deck for long. I am so very happy now!

I can't see this card having such great impact on Long, but i am sure it will help Fish out greatly. I plan to use this before it actually becomes feared by combo players, because soon it will be known by just about everyone. Go Trickbind!


//wtp.

Pitchlong doesn't run duress, and if it does it just slows it down long enough for you do build a defensive hand. The only deck i see getting through this is TPS

[wethepeople]

ah sorry, i didnt realize you were specifying Pitch Long rather than all Tendrils Combo builds. I'd find it pretty funny if Pitch Long started running Duress just to get by Trickbind. 

[Vegeta2711]

This card actually doesn't suck. I'm shocked. You lose the cheap mana denial component in exchange for it being a real 'answer' to certain OMG I'M DED events like Tendrils and Mindslaver.

[Komatteru]

This is going to give Tendrils a run for its money.  I expect Fish to be at an all time high post-Time Spiral.

It doesn't work against Tendrils quite as you think it does.  Reference the comprehensive rules:

217.1c An object that moves from one zone to another is treated as a new object. Effects connected with its previous location will no longer affect it. There are two exceptions to this rule: Effects that edit the characteristics of an artifact, creature, or enchantment spell on the stack will continue to apply to the permanent that spell creates, and abilities that trigger when an object moves from one zone to another (for example, “When Rancor is put into a graveyard from play”) can find the object in the zone it moved to when the ability triggered.

In other words, if you whack Tendrils with Trickbind, the player can Burning Wish and replay that same copy if it was RFGed, replay it from the graveyard with Will, Regrowth, or Recoup, if it goes there (pre-Will, for instance), or simply play another copy of Tendrils.

[Implacable]

In other words, if you whack Tendrils with Trickbind, the player can Burning Wish and replay that same copy if it was RFGed, replay it from the graveyard with Will, Regrowth, or Recoup, if it goes there (pre-Will, for instance), or simply play another copy of Tendrils.

So your argument is that, because they can go find another Tendrils (if they run one), this is bad?  Are you joking?

[brianpk80]

I love this card. No more do you have to worry about Tendrils with this card. Yes, its more expensive with stifle, so first turn stifles will be harder, but what you get in return is great: An Uncounterable Stifle with another ability that can be used against other cards.

I wish I could agree, but this isn't the end of Pitch Long any more than Stifle itself was the end of Grim Long.  I would almost prefer Stifle.  The reason for this is that right off the bat, if you're on the draw, you start the game with a 20-30% chance of losing before you even lay a land.  I, like many others I suspect, wish this weren't the case but unfortunately, Ritual, Ritual, Tutor! (And Misdirect your Force if you're lucky enough to have it) is all it takes to win a game of Magic these days.  If you're on the play, you might have a better time setting up your disruption and defense, but with Trickbind you need a land *and* a Mox to stop the fast Tendrils *and* you have to make sure you don't lose it to a Memory Jar or Timetwister (or Duress if that comes back into Fashion).  And if you blow your Trickbind on the Jar, then you're out of luck when they Tutor for Necro or Will next turn.  Post-sb, you're still at the mercy of Long's arsenal of tricks including Plague Spitter, Tinker for DSC/Pentavus, Duress, etc.  Tendrils has a profound distorting effect on Magic today and it won't be stopped by a 1U Instant (why not just run Mana Leak then; most games v. storm that are won are because you manage to stop the storm/mana enablers).  If they want to bridle Storm combo decks, I don't think there's much else than can do it other than "Instant, 1W: Gain 2 Life, Storm, You may play this without paying its mana cost if an opponent has played a black spell this turn" or an Arcane Laboratory on a 1/1 for U or W.       

This is going to give Tendrils a run for its money.  I expect Fish to be at an all time high post-Time Spiral.

It doesn't work against Tendrils quite as you think it does.  Reference the comprehensive rules:

...

In other words, if you whack Tendrils with Trickbind, the player can Burning Wish and replay that same copy if it was RFGed, replay it from the graveyard with Will, Regrowth, or Recoup, if it goes there (pre-Will, for instance), or simply play another copy of Tendrils.

I don't think he was suggesting that the Tendrils couldn't ever be replayed.  Rather, the original poster's point seemed to be that this would hose a singular resolved Tendrils enough to deter people from playing the deck.  While I disagree with that point for several reasons (see my other post), I can scarcely think of any situations where a storm player kills an opponent by resolving two instances of Tendrils of Agony on the same turn.  I think in the past year, it's happened to me only once.  (Two consecutive "mini Tendrils" on separate turns is a different issue altogether).  First, most Long decks only run one copy of Tendrils and they don't run Burning Wish, Regrowth, or Recoup.  Even those with two copies of Tendrils (or post-sb) are going to have a difficult time mustering up an additional BB2 and finding that second Tendrils unless the game has progressed to the 10th turn or something unusual like that.  Second, most Gifts decks that run Burning Wish run it as their means of acquiring Tendrils of Agony.  And if they're Wishing for it, chances are they have resolved Yawgmoth's Will this turn and both the Tendrils and Burning Wish would be removed from the game after being cast.  That said, even if the Gifts player runs Burning Wish and Tendrils maindeck, I don't think it's likely that he would muster up an additional BBR3 after Tendrils has been Trickbinded to Wish for it and cast it again on the same turn, especially if he needs to Tutor or Recoup to get the Burning Wish. 

If anything, Trickbind is a lot harsher on the Tendrils kill in Gifts (which generally takes longer to set up) rather than Storm combo.  But I don't think the card is the death knell for either. 

On the plus side though, this card may be very handy against a resolved Triskelion.  For Fish, that thing is an enormous nuisance, and Stifling one of its pings (while still making it lose the counter) and keeping your Dark Confidant or Meddling Mage around for an extra turn could be enough to swing the game back to you. 

-BPK

Triple Posts Merged
-- TAL

[Harlequin]

It also buys you a turn against Bargain.  However, does this really stand a chance to replace stifle?  The mana denial aspect of fish (null rod fish anyway) is the only reason fish can hold a candle to strong drain decks.  Stifleing the turn 1 fetchland is SO important to fish.  Sure... this is better than stifle against storm (b/c long never walks into stifle), but from a fish vantage point, storm is stifle's secondary concern.

[GUnit]

I think I'm in love.

[zeus-online]

I hate it.

First off i really don't like split second..can't respond to? I thought this was supposed to be magic: the gathering
Second....Stifle is friggin' annoying, no reason to let people play with 8 of them...

That said, i think its good enough to get played, but hardly format breaking.

/Zeus

[Implacable]

It also buys you a turn against Bargain.  However, does this really stand a chance to replace stifle?  The mana denial aspect of fish (null rod fish anyway) is the only reason fish can hold a candle to strong drain decks.  Stifleing the turn 1 fetchland is SO important to fish.  Sure... this is better than stifle against storm (b/c long never walks into stifle), but from a fish vantage point, storm is stifle's secondary concern.

I agree with your here, in that it can't replace Stifle.  What it can do, however, is utterly hose PitchLong.  Just consider this: as long as you keep two mana up, PitchLong, or Gifts, for that matter, cannot go off.  Period.  That's pretty awesome.  Now, whether it should be placed in the main is debatable, but it is definitely a great 'board card against either of those decks.

[brianpk80]

I agree with your here, in that it can't replace Stifle.  What it can do, however, is utterly hose PitchLong.  Just consider this: as long as you keep two mana up, PitchLong, or Gifts, for that matter, cannot go off.  Period.  That's pretty awesome.  Now, whether it should be placed in the main is debatable, but it is definitely a great 'board card against either of those decks.

It's definitely a threat for Pitch Long (and more so for Gifts' Tendrils kill) but it's not the be all and end all of either deck.  Pitch Long can either kill you before you have 1U set up (this happens a lot) or can Memory Jar/Timetwister your Trickbind away.  There's also the option of them killing you with Bargain/Necro/Chain of Vapor/Mind's Desire and then doing it all over again next turn with Yawgmoth's Will if you Trickbind the first Tendrils.  Or, they could just incorporate Duress into the plan or just go back to Grim Long (which wasn't a bad deck at all).  I think Tendrils is so distorting and strong that it will take a lot more than an uncounterable more expensive Stifle to keep storm-based decks at bay. 

-BPK

[Komatteru]

Xantid Swarm makes this card about as effective as...any spell.

[chrissss]

In Oath, I play COTV for 0 in most cases. Then when I have oath+ Akroma in play, and I know my opponent has a lot of 1CC cards, I play COTV for 1. This would counter Stifle, but it doesnt counter Trickbind. THis is one of the only times I am happy a cards CC is one more.

[warble]

It seems like we always try to apply the newest cards to Fish successfully before any other decks.  I'd say this card is meeting with exactly that sentiment, but the real issue is if this card is more valuable than Misdirection, Meddling Mage, Orim's Chant, and yes Stifle because it's 1 less mana and Fish can get stuck on one mana extremely easily.  If you want it sideboard, it's a possibility, but if you want a maindeck that doesn't draw dead in a lot of matchups (the objective of fish's maindeck is to have all cards usable because fish's draw power is minimal at best) I find it extremely hard to justify the inclusion of this card.  In any blue sideboard it's a possibility against storm but I have to be honest...Chalice of the Void and Sphere of Resistance kick the living @#$&^ out of Storm Combo, and in combination with Leyline and Tormod's Crypt the sideboard is more versatile AND faster with those cards instead of Trickbind.

[etakspeelstae]

Not like it hasn't been said like 40 times already...

I think the cc of 2 will keep it from owning Tendrils-based combo, but it may be smart to start playing a few Duress's in MDG? I know a few people who have had success already doing this, but now it seems like it would be almost bad not to. I'll be testing this, mostly because of my Fishy metagame.

[wethepeople]

i have seen Duress come out of Gifts a few times before, long before Trickbind was even known of, i really dont know why they were running them, i was playing UWb Fish at the time.