[Mechanic] Echo with a Twist

[Anusien]

Echo seems like one of the most under-developed mechanics for the CCF mainly because it's not interesting.  It appears on face that there is not a lot of design space available since it just changes the way things are costed.  What if we could somehow either make the echo payment different (cost reduction) or make cards with alternate casting cost and echo?

For example:
Generic Green Dork -
Creature - Ape
This costs 2 less to play if you control a Mountain.
Echo
3/3

Springing Cheetah -
Creature - Cat
You may remove a green card in your hand from the game rather than paying Springing Cheetah's mana cost.
Flash, Echo
3/3

Tree Snake -
Creature - Snake
Flash
Echo
If you played Tree Snake anytime you could play a sorcery, Tree Snake loses echo.
3/2

[ghostchild]

I definitely think there's a lot of unused space in Echo. I agree that simply having Echo costs be different from the casting costs opens up a LOT of space.

Old echo cards could be reworded like so:
Albino Troll
1G
Creature - Troll
Echo - 1G (rather than simply "Echo")
1G: Regenerate

Here's some very simple examples of new cards created by separating Echo from the mana cost of the card.

Lesser Acridian 
1G
Creature - Insect
Echo - G
2/3

And from there it's a short leap to nonmana Echo costs:

Echoing Fiend
1B
Creature - Horror
Echo - Reveal your hand and discard a card
When Echoing Fiend comes into play, target player reveals his or her hand. Then that player discards a card.
2/1

[Matt]

Hm, I always assumed echo was a dead end. But now that this has shown me different...well, what bout combining echo with the nightmare mechanic from Torment/Judgement?

[Anusien]

Interesting.  Hunting Moa already had a leaves play ability, but I had a couple of ideas:

Stalking Assassin - 1B
Creature - Human Assassin
Echo
When this is put into a graveyard from play, destroy target nonartifact, nonblack creature. It can't be regenerated.
Stalking Assassin can't block.
3/1

Blooming Treefolk - GG
Creature - Treefolk
Echo
At the beginning of your upkeep, add GG to your mana pool.
2/4


By the way, what are people's thoughts on changing the Echo wording like suggested?  It's intriguing and makes the design space cleaner, but it goes against how Wizards designed echo and would require oracling 40 or so cards to work with our set.  On the other hand, my style of tweaks screw with cost to play on a regular basis, which could make the set confusing if over-used.

[ghostchild]

There's so much space to do things with Echo if the costs are changed that it's practically a completely different mechanic.
Just another example:

Prismatic Beast
4G
Creature - Beast
Echo - 3G
When Prismatic Beast comes into play, if you played it from your hand, you may add WUBRG to your mana pool.
4/4

It filters five mana into all 5 colors, so it doesn't add any mana. But, this being a green creature, the cost you actually "pay" for the creature makes it a 4/4 for 4.

[Harlequin]

I think it would be better to not not alter the Echo Mechanic.  However it makes for really confusing cards I suppose for example:

Prismatic Beast
4G
Creature - Beast
Echo - 3G


Would become..

Prismatic Beast  3G
Creature - Beast
If you play Prismatic Beast from your hand, it costs and additional G
Echo


Or conversly.

Prismatic Beast  4G
Creature - Beast
Prismatic Beast's Echo cost is reduced by
Echo

[parallax]

I think Prismatic Beast would be fine with normal Echo.

Prismatic Beast
4G
Creature - Beast
Echo
When Prismatic Beast comes into play, if you played it from your hand, you may add WUBRG to your mana pool.
4/4

I think you could make a whole bunch of "delay" creatures.

Delayed Bears

Creature - Bear
2/2
Echo
When Delayed Bears comes into play, add to your mana pool.

Delayed Goblin

Creature - Goblin Berserker
2/2
Echo
Haste (It's really super-haste. Should this be a slug?)
When Delayed Goblin comes into play, add to your mana pool.

It would also be possible to make variable echo costs without errataing all the old echo cards. The rules for echo could simply state that any cards without explicit echo costs use the mana cost of the card.

[Venven]

I hope they bring echo back. MaRo is like the Justin Timberlake of MtG, so it's not entirely impossible.

[Anusien]

Okay, I'm satisfied that we've expanded the Echo design space.  Let's keep it to just strictly echo and not "Echo X".  Design your own cards in their own threads.

Close this please?

[parallax]

I think we designed Time Spiral. Maybe not now, maybe we designed it in the future . . .

Echo

[ghostchild]

Wow, this is cool. I hit the nail on the head.

[dandan]

Remember guys, Wizards don't read TMD CCF  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol::lol::lol:

[Anusien]

Yeah, that wording was more elegant, but it's not a change we were allowed to make.  Once Wizards made it though, good work guys.

[Anusien]

Before we go nuts, flavor-wise, what does Echo represent?

[parallax]

Before we go nuts, flavor-wise, what does Echo represent?

Wizards doesn't have any real flavor for echo.

In Time Spiral, I would consider the flavor of echo being a creature summoned through an unstable time rift requiring extra mana to prevent it from slipping back to its own plane.

In general, echo probably represents either summoning a creature before you have generated enough mana to fully maintain that creature's bond to your plane, resulting in needing more mana to "complete" the summoning. Or, spreading out the casting of a creature over twice the normal period of time.