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Author Topic: Mind's Desire and storm  (Read 2375 times)
Byron
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« on: October 05, 2006, 09:50:27 pm »

Mind's Desire

And storm. Does each storm spell counts as a another spell that you need to counter or willl countering the card itself stop it's storm effect. Also for a storm card like Mind's Desire, when you reveal the top cards of your library, do you reveal more than 1 at a time (meaning you have to play them in order?) Or do you reveal them all at once. And since they're removed from the game, are they face up so they oponent can see what you have? What if you draw cards or shuffle your library? What happends to the Desired cards then? And at the end of turn, what happends to all the cards you revealed? Do they stay removed from the game, get placed on top of your library in a certain order, or get shuffled back into your library?

If this ins't the proper forum to ask this question, please lock this thread. Thanks.
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Demonic Attorney
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2006, 09:56:09 pm »

Moved to the Rules Forum.  Byron, you're not exactly new to these boards, so please take the trouble to read the basic descriptions of each subforum and make sure your posts belong where they end up.  It's not very hard.

-DA
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2006, 10:08:42 pm »

Quote from: Glossary
Storm: Storm is a triggered ability that functions while the spell is on the stack. "Storm" means "When you play this spell, put a copy of it onto the stack for each other spell that was played before it this turn. If the spell has any targets, you may choose new targets for any number of the copies." See rule 502.30, "Storm."

Quote from: Oracle
Mind's Desire {4UU} |Sorcery| Shuffle your library. Then remove the top card of your library from the game. Until end of turn, you may play that card without paying its mana cost. (If it has X in its mana cost, X is 0.) / Storm (When you play this spell, copy it for each spell played before it this turn.)

Storm creates copies of the spell. They can be countered like other spells.

The ability triggers upon playing the spell and not upon resolution. Countering the original spell only counters the spell, not the storm. When each copy resolves, you do the action it tells you to do, which is shuffle your library and remove the top card of your library from the game. You get priority between each resolution of the copy to play spells.

If you don't play the spells, they stay removed from the game, as the spell doesn't say anything about doing something else with them.

Note: You can shortcut "shuffle multiple times and reveal" with "shuffle once, reveal until either of you wants to play something" for the sake of time.
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Demonic Attorney
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« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2006, 10:09:52 pm »

And in answer to your question:

The storm mechanic of Mind's Desire will trigger upon Mind's Desire being put on the stack.  In other words, once Mind's Desire is played, the storm ability triggers and places a corresponding number of copies of Mind's Desire on the stack upon resolution.  Once this happens, countering the original copy will not remove the others; they exist separate and independently from one another.  As a result, each will resolve on its own, one at a time, just like a series of other spells would.  Additionally, both you and your opponent are free to respond to each copy before it resolves with instants or fast-effects if you so choose.  Cards removed from the game through being flipped over from Mind's Desire are face up, so both you and your opponent will see what they are.  If your library is manipulated between copies resolving, through drawing cards, shuffling, etc. the copies will continue to resolve as normal once the instant-effect has resolved.  If you fail to play a card removed from the game with Mind's Desire until the opportunity to play it for free goes away at the end of your turn, the card is removed from the game and does not come back on its own.

EDIT:  Also, please be sure to include the complete Oracle text for any cards you post questions about in this forum from now on.  I know it must seem like you're receiving a barrage of requests, but we really would appreciate it if you followed these small steps for the sake of administrative convenience.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2006, 10:33:15 pm by Demonic Attorney » Logged

Harlequin
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2006, 07:46:36 am »

Remember that EACH copy techincally shuffles your library.  So lets say you have 5 Copies + the 1 Mind's Desire (the card) so 6 "flips" need to occur.  so you flip the first card .. its Timewalk.  Timewalk is a sorcery so you can't play it right now (because the stack is not empty, there are 4 copies +1 that still need to resolve).  so you move on to the next flip, and you flip say ... Vampiric Tutor.  Now it would be really really cool to use vamp tutor now and put say... Darksteel colosus onto of your library then flip him into play right?  well you can't.  you can however use the vampiric tutor right now (with the other copies on the stack) but remeber that EACH copy will shuffle your library first, then flip.  So if you use the vamp tutor right now, put DSC on top of your deck (legal play) ... when the next copy resolves its going to shuffle him back in before it flips.  So lets say we dont do that. 

now we this Removed: Time walk, Vamp tutor  --- while the stack is: +3 copies, +1 actual card.   
Next flip resolves and its say... Brainstorm.  Now we might want to think about responding the 3 other flips on the stack.  Lets say you need a lotus (like you have tendrils in hand with no black sources).  At this point, with Timewalk removed, flipping will is probably bad.  So lets make sure we have will in hand.  To do this, we cast our Free Vamp for will, and our Free Brainstorm.  Now we have will in hand.  So we flip a few more cards and lets say we end up with:

Removed from the game:
Timwalk
(Vamp) was spent and is in the Grave yard
(Brainstorm) was spent and is in the Graveyard
Ritual
Sol Ring
Mystical Tutor

In hand we have Will.

So we need to do some stuff.  We cast our free Sol ring, and our free Time walk (which goes into the GY).  Then our Free mystical for ... ancestral recall.

Now we have dark Ritual but lets say we're tapped out.  and burning the will might not be the right option.  At this point, its the end of the first turn and we have the time walk turn kill set up.  If we don't need the dark ritual we can opt not to play it, and it will stay Removed from the game forever.  Meaning we will not be able to use it durring our Will turn.   or we could opt to play it anyway, take the 3 points of mana burn, but have it go to the graveyard instead.  Meaning it will be there durring next turn when we will.

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King_minos
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« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2006, 10:03:02 am »

The thing you need to be careful with storm is keeping track. I played a tournament yesterday where both players in a game lost track of the storm count and resolved a mind's desire. Then, two phases later, they realized that they had made the mistake and called the judge. This is a game loss at all REL's. they both were given a game loss and told to skip to game three.
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Godder
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« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2006, 04:04:04 pm »

If you're playing a storm-based deck, pen and paper are recommended. It's old school, I know, but sometimes the old school is still the best. That also comes in handy for life totals.
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« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2006, 03:31:41 pm »

If you're playing a storm-based deck, pen and paper are recommended. It's old school, I know, but sometimes the old school is still the best. That also comes in handy for life totals.

I'd go as far to say that if you're playing in any magic tournment you should use pen and paper. A judge can't see how life totals have changed if you're using dice, but if you have everything written down nicely and neatly, you're more likely to win judging disputes when you have hard evidence on your side.
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