Twaun007
Adepts
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Posts: 1527
For eight hundred years have I trained Jedi.
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« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2007, 01:21:25 pm » |
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Pristine Angel was used in Oath side boards. I'm at a loss on the Watchwolf though.
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diopter
I voted for Smmenen!
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Posts: 1049
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« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2007, 01:24:08 pm » |
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Vintage Zoo, of course!
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andrewpate
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« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2007, 01:38:09 pm » |
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I'm not sure how much play Martyr of Sands would see if it wasn't for Proclamation of Rebirth - unless life gain is excessive, recursive, or otherwise added onto a card, it doesn't see play, and even at 12 life for 2 mana, I'm not sure if this would be good enough.
At Worlds, Øyvind Andersen played B/W Aggro to 5-0-1 in the Standard portion with 3xMartyr of Sands in the maindeck and the other in the sideboard. That deck ran no copies of Proclamation of Rebirth between maindeck and sideboard, nor did it have any other way to use a Martyr more than once. The deck was neither monowhite nor recursive, and Martyr still made the cut. It's that good. |
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Jacob Orlove
Official Time Traveller of TMD
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Posts: 8074
When am I?
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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2007, 02:16:33 pm » |
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The original Meandeck Oath lists were ALL ABOUT the SB Pristine Angels. Soooooo Good.
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Team Meandeck: O Lord,
Guard my tongue from evil and my lips from speaking guile.
To those who slander me, let me give no heed.
May my soul be humble and forgiving to all.
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AmbivalentDuck
Tournament Organizers
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Posts: 2807
Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2007, 02:40:59 pm » |
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Vintage cards that have been playable in White off the top of my head since Onslaught block
Spiral
Children of Koilis
I'd also add in Ruins of Trokair. It's not really white. But if it was "blue" instead, we'd all be playing four copies. Total aside: why whine about white? It's green that's sucking. All the other colors are getting powerful effects from other sides of the color pie while green gets to *gasp* have fliers. Massively broken! The game will never recover! |
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andrewpate
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« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2007, 10:02:33 pm » |
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I agree with this 100%. Green has been getting shafted much more than white in the past few years.
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silvernail
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« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2007, 10:31:52 pm » |
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Well, the preview card Damnation prompted me to make this thread. White keeps losing its effects to other colors, with life gain and taxation being the ones it holds onto.
In contrast, green has almost always been "shafted". It gets a pretty small amount of quality effects, just as white does.
Both colors could use some help, but the first step is to have R&D stop "stealing" whites stuff.
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emidln
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« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2007, 10:58:37 pm » |
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Pristine angel? What deck played with those?
Same thing with watchwolf.
/Zeus
Oath played with Pristine Angel for a time. Vintage Zoo (ffy's deck) plays Watchwolf. |
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BZK! - The Vintage Lightning War
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Sextiger
Basic User
Posts: 338
My nickname was born for these days
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« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2007, 12:52:11 am » |
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Pristine angel was the other big creature that was played along with Akroma in Oath decks for a while.
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"After these years of arguing I've conceded that Merchant Scroll in particular can be an exception to this rule because it is a card that you NEVER want to see in multiples, under any circumstances. Merchant Scroll can be seen as restricted in a way because should you have 2 in a hand, only one is really useful (that is, only one can get Ancestral)."
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zeus-online
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« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2007, 04:21:13 am » |
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Yeah, i got it the first time someone told me that pristine was an oath card  Anyways, i still can't see watchwolf as a played card...just because 1 guy plays it, even if it is a pretty well known guy. /Zeus |
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The truth is an elephant described by three blind men.
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Toad
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« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2007, 02:53:12 pm » |
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Actually, which Blue cards saw play since Onslaught?
Chain of Vapor
Read the Runes
Brain Freeze
Mind's Desire
Stifle
Thirst for Knowledge
Echoing Truth
Trinket Mage
Gifts Ungiven
Ninja of Deep Hours
Less than White cards !
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+t
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« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2007, 03:23:55 pm » |
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Actually, which Blue cards saw play since Onslaught?
Chain of Vapor
Read the Runes
Brain Freeze
Mind's Desire
Stifle
Thirst for Knowledge
Echoing Truth
Trinket Mage
Gifts Ungiven
Ninja of Deep Hours
Less than White cards !
Granted, basing this sort of thing on the number of viable cards is quite silly, especiallywhen you consider that collectively, the cards on this list have had more of an impact on Vintage than the list of white cards. agree with this 100%. Green has been getting shafted much more than white in the past few years. I'm REALLY hoping that you mean in the context of vintage. |
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Looking for a Mana Drain. In the Hartford area? Willing to sell me one? PM me.
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Matt
Post like a butterfly, Mod like a bee.
Adepts
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Posts: 2297
King of the Jews!
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« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2007, 04:08:11 pm » |
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Well the reason for that (Toad's list of blue cards) is that there were so many good blue cards already, the barrier for entry was that much higher.
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http://www.goodgamery.com/pmo/c025.GIF---------------------- SpenceForHire2k7: Its unessisary SpenceForHire2k7: only spelled right SpenceForHire2k7: <= world english teach evar ---------------------- noitcelfeRmaeT {Team Hindsight}
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andrewpate
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« Reply #43 on: January 07, 2007, 11:01:44 pm » |
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agree with this 100%. Green has been getting shafted much more than white in the past few years. I'm REALLY hoping that you mean in the context of vintage. No, I meant in general. Most of the relevant green cards (let's say since Onslaught) have either also been white (Glare of Subdual, Loxodon Hierarch, Watchwolf) or been isolated power cards in specific decks (Greater Good, Tooth and Nail). Elves were chump change compared to the white control core (Exalted Angel, Eternal Dragon, Akroma's Vengeance, Decree of Justice) in Onslaught block, and Mirrodin block had next to no relevant green cards aside from Tooth and Nail and the land tutors (which would not have been relevant without Tooth and Nail). On the whole, white has been more consistently on the radar with more cards than green has in the past few years. |
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warble
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« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2007, 12:30:31 pm » |
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I've got one word for you: Homelands. wtf cards suck now?
If there is one thing that's missing in white it's win conditions, but I always thought that was because development didn't want white to have a fast win. It's white, man! That just implicitly forces white decks to utilize another color to win fast in vintage, or control the game. Nothing wrong with that... Now if you're talking bombs like balance and swords to plowshares...I do think white's gotten the shaft in terms of playable instants and sorceries for vintage.
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OfficeShredder
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« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2007, 12:58:51 am » |
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In terms of vintage, I don't think it's a question of what colors get playable cards, as much as what colors are playable. Of course white doesn't get as many new cards as blue does.... it's not necessarily because white isn't getting good new cards, so much as white doesn't do anything in vintage for those new cards to go with. Even the old powerhouse cards are getting phased out... StoP used to be a universal control card, balance hardly sees play anymore. Is it because they're being pushed out for these great blue and black cards, or is it because white was the weakest link already?
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Apollyon
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« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2007, 02:01:37 am » |
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A lot of that has to deal with the fact that decks are becoming far more comboish.
Gifts is a Drain combo deck.
*Long is a Ritual combo deck.
Slaver is a Drain combo deck (Play Mindslaver + activate Mindslaver == the combo).
Belcher is a combo deck.
Pure control just isn't showing up nearly as much. When that happens, the desire for good white control cards decreases and it eventually stops showing up. One of the few decks that runs Balance is 5c Stax.
It's not that Balance has become bad. It's just that there's such a critical mass of powerful cards and Yawgmoth's Will that any deck that runs Power can just play Will and win.
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Godder
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« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2007, 04:33:27 am » |
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Combo is the new Aggro. Why mess around controlling the board when you can just win if it's a problem? Obviously that's a gross simplification of Vintage, because there's more to it than that, but as Apollyon pointed out, powerful cards + Yawgmoth's Will = possible combo finish.
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That's what I like about you, Laura - you're always willing to put my neck on the line. |
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