Nonmana Echo Cost

[Anusien]

It's obvious that the next step with Echo is nonmana echo cost.  I had the idea for an echo cost: "Return <this> to your hand."  So here's an approach to using that cost:

Wall of the Tangle - 1GG
Creature - Plant Wall
Echo , return Wall of the Tangle to its owner's hand.
When this comes into play, draw a card.
1/4

[jro]

I like the idea of non-mana Echo costs, but why does this card have Echo rather than just an upkeep cost?  I just don't see how Echo makes sense with a cost of "Return <this> to your hand."  Is this card really supposed to "combo" with Thick-Skinned Goblin?

[Norm4eva]

Agree.  As much as I love the notion of paying  to draw an extra card every turn, this seems like an echo cost that defies the concept.  Time Spiral illustrated the "take it or leave it" nature of echo cards; some have leaves play effects that actually give you pause when deciding whether or not to pay the echo.  This card guarantees you lose that wall next turn and there's not a damn thing that can be done about it.

[zimagic]

Agree.  As much as I love the notion of paying  to draw an extra card every turn, this seems like an echo cost that defies the concept.  Time Spiral illustrated the "take it or leave it" nature of echo cards; some have leaves play effects that actually give you pause when deciding whether or not to pay the echo.  This card guarantees you lose that wall next turn and there's not a damn thing that can be done about it.

You could make it optional: (Other changes suggested to balance the power)

Wall of the Tangle - 1GG
Creature - Plant Wall
Double Echo (you may chose to play either Echo cost)
Echo 1
Echo g, return Wall of the Tangle to its owner's hand.
When this comes into play, draw a card.
0/4

So you get a wall or cards, or cards and then a wall depending on what you see across from you. The initial cost would then be a little high for a 0/4 wall (2GG) but 1GGG shouldn't be too much for a recurring Wall of Roots.

[Liam-K]

edit: nevermind.

I still don't really like this concept much though.  Nonmana echo costs might be some interesting design space, but I don't think turning echo into delayed buyback is the way to go.