Oath of druids and dragon enchantments

[technogeek5000]

I was fiddling around with a old deck that was posted on here a while ago, speed oath, and a opponent said that dragon enchantments dont actually trigger. Im pretty sure hes wrong, but i just want confirmation because i dont want to be wasting my time with this deck.



Oath of druids 
Enchantment

Rules Text (Oracle): At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player controls fewer creatures than any of his or her opponents, the player may reveal cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals a creature card. The player puts that card into play and all other cards revealed this way into his or her graveyard.

Dragon breath 
Enchantment - Aura

Rules Text (Oracle): Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has haste.
 : Enchanted creature gets +1/+0 until end of turn.
When a creature with converted mana cost 6 or more comes into play, you may return Dragon Breath from your graveyard to play attached to that creature.

[Apollyon]

The creature is put into play and the enchantment is put into the graveyard at the same time, so the Dragon enchantment triggers.

[LotusHead]

Oath decks often play Gaea's Blessing, and sometimes Dragon Breath and Blessing hit the grave at the same time.

Both trigger at the same time, but you as controller, decide what order to put them on the stack.  Just stack so that Dragon's Breath resolves before Blessing does.

[parallax]

I remember hearing once that Dragon's Breath does not trigger when using Gamekeeper to put Darksteel Collossus in play. Gamekeeper has the same wording as Oath, and to the best of my rules knowledge, Dragon's Breath works with both cards. Does anyone know the reason for this confusion? Is there another similar card that doesn't work?

[Harlequin]

Im not 100% sure but I think for a short period of time, the dragon echants got the "If you played that creature from your hand" power level errata. 

Around when Time Vault was under the microscope, these were removed.  The dragon enchants were restorted to the card printed text along with the removal of the more well known power level erratas: Karmic Guide, Priest of Gix, etc.

So I think that is where the confusion stems from, because for a while you couldn't.

[parallax]

I'm almost certain the Dragon enchantments never got that errata. For one thing, those enchantments were printed in Onslaught, long after the "if you played it from your hand" errata was issued. Note that cards from that time period, if they need the errata, were printed with IYPIFYH already on the card. For example, Hypnox.

Also, I specifically remember the Dragon enchantments working with one card, but not with another, due to slightly different wordings on the card. I thought the two cards in question were Gamekeeper and Oath of Druids, but they have the same wording.

[Harlequin]

Perhapse your right (esp considering Hypox).  Reguardless of if an offical errata was issued or not, I know the ruling change occured roughly around the same time as the errata's came off the other cards (or at least, I remember realizing it about the same time). 

Was the differance in some discrepancy in the meaning of "Put into play" and "comes into play"?  Thats just a shot in the dark, but I almost vaugly remember there being a differance at some point (however that very well could have been some noob attempting to explain why I suck at magic).

[Clariax]

I remember hearing once that Dragon's Breath does not trigger when using Gamekeeper to put Darksteel Collossus in play. Gamekeeper has the same wording as Oath, and to the best of my rules knowledge, Dragon's Breath works with both cards. Does anyone know the reason for this confusion? Is there another similar card that doesn't work?

Parallax's memory is correct. If it's Gamekeeper is revealing Dragon's Breath and Darksteel Collosus, the Dragon's Breath won't trigger.  Where Parallax is not correct is Gamekeeper having the same wording as Oath.

Oath of Druids
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if that player controls fewer creatures than any of his or her opponents, the player may reveal cards from the top of his or her library until he or she reveals a creature card. The player puts that card into play and all other cards revealed this way into his or her graveyard.

Gamekeeper
When Gamekeeper is put into a graveyard from play, you may remove Gamekeeper from the game. If you do, reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a creature card. Put that card into play and put the other cards revealed this way into your graveyard.

The difference is extrememly minor, and seems like it would be completely irrelevant, but turns out to make a difference in this situation.  Oath reads "...puts that card into play and all other cards ... graveyard."  Gamekeeper reads "Put that card into play and put the other cards ... graveyard."

With Oath it's a single action, so it's all done at once.  'Put A here and B there.' Since the aura is put in the GY at the same time as the creature in play, the aura can trigger.  With Gamekeeper however, you have 2 seperate actions, '[1]Put A here and [2]put B there.'  So you perform the actions in order.  First you put the Collosus in play, then you put the aura(s) in the graveyard.  So the aura's aren't in the graveyard until after the Collosus is already in play, too late for them to trigger

[verduran]

This sounds weird to me. I would have said that because the resolution of gamekeeper's ability is one action, you'd have to complete it entirely and then check for triggered abilities.

As far as I can tell the wording is different just because gamekeeper can affect only its controller. I don't think it was meant to work differently.

[LotusHead]

This sounds weird to me. I would have said that because the resolution of gamekeeper's ability is one action, you'd have to complete it entirely and then check for triggered abilities.

As far as I can tell the wording is different just because gamekeeper can affect only its controller. I don't think it was meant to work differently.

I have these same concerns.  I just don't forsee facing Gamekeeper at my local Vintage tournaments.

[Khahan]

This sounds weird to me. I would have said that because the resolution of gamekeeper's ability is one action, you'd have to complete it entirely and then check for triggered abilities.

As far as I can tell the wording is different just because gamekeeper can affect only its controller. I don't think it was meant to work differently.

Well, it is all 1 action, but what Clariax is getting at is the fact that there are certain steps with Gamekeeper. Step 1 of game keeper is to put the creature card into play (note when it comes into play, the condition to trigger is not met because the enchantment is not in the graveyard yet).  Then you put the rest of the cards into the graveyard.  Then the game puts triggered abilities on the stack before the active player receives priority. However, the enchantment could not trigger because  it was not yet in the graveyard when the creature hit play.


With oath, you put into play and put into gy as one step. The enchantments see the creature go to play while they are in the gy. When the game check for triggered abilities, it finds one waiting for the stack.

[Clariax]

This sounds weird to me. I would have said that because the resolution of gamekeeper's ability is one action, you'd have to complete it entirely and then check for triggered abilities.

As far as I can tell the wording is different just because gamekeeper can affect only its controller. I don't think it was meant to work differently.

It's entirely possible that is the only reason why they were worded differently.  But, whether it was meant to work differently or not, in this case, doesn't matter.  Whatever the reason for the different wordings, the wordings are different, and the result is that the effects do work slightly differently.

Also, while it may be all one effect, the effect involves multiple actions.  Many effects involve multiple actions, and when they do, you perform them in order, unless something says otherwise.  Triggered abilities trigger whenever their trigger condition is met.  The game waits for the next time a player would get priority for the ability to go on the stack, but it actually triggers when the event occurs.