ErkBek
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« on: April 22, 2007, 03:26:49 pm » |
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Ive had some free time this week and the GWS forums are down, so I figured Id post this deck I was just messing around with using the new Future Sight cards for fun.
// Lands 2 Badlands 2 Bloodstained Mire 4 Polluted Delta 3 Swamp
// Creatures 2 Simian Spirit Guide 4 Zombie Cutthroat (Street Wraith)
// Spells 1 Black Lotus 4 Cabal Ritual 4 Dark Ritual 1 Demonic Tutor 4 Duress 4 Force of Will (Pact of Negation) 4 Grim Tutor 1 Imperial Seal 3 Infernal Tutor 1 Lion's Eye Diamond 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mana Vault 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby 1 Necropotence 4 Rite of Flame 2 Tendrils of Agony 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Wheel of Fortune 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain 1 Yawgmoth's Will
Thats 21 acceleration spells, 10 tutors, and 8 protection.
The basic idea of the deck is to reach a critical mass of yawg will protectors combined with yawg will enablers. I goldfished 50 games coming up with these numbers.
I did about 10 games of testing total since I rarely ever get to play cards. My only loses coming against chalice @0 + 1, 2sphere (both vs. shop aggro) and my only loss vs. slaver coming from a totally random platinum angel.
Turn 1 Kill without protection 14% Turn 1 Kill with protection 4%
Turn 2 Kill without protection 12% Turn 2 Kill with 1 protection spell 26% Turn 2 kill with 2 protection spells 4% Turn 2 kill with protection but not through the entire combo (LED) 4%
Turn 3 kill without protection 10% Turn 3 kill with 1 protection 4% Turn 3 kill with 2 protection 10%
Fizzle or later than turn 3 12%
Rather than clog up this first post, Ill post my quick notes that I made in a post following this for those that care to read them (I prob wouldnt read past 10 goldfishes).
Also, my plan vs. 2sphere game 1 is to race it or lose. Against Chalice @1 I can race using tutors for lotus and cabal rit as mana. Post board Id likely bring in helm of awakening to play through spheres, and possibly bazaars to play through chalices. Against graveyard hate I basically just try to play wheel, necro, or bargain (these are actually reasonable plans when you run 10 tutors).
Sorry for the quick post, Ill edit it to answer questions that come up.
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« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 09:00:48 pm by kobefan »
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ErkBek
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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2007, 03:27:34 pm » |
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Question on a hand mull to 5 to Badlands, Wheel, street wraith, Infernal Tutor, Tendrils....should I keep?
Game 1 One mana short of a turn 1 with counter backup. Go off turn 2 with counter backup.
Game 2 Play a turn 2 wheel with counter backup along with BBBBR in pool. Draw into kill with 2x Duress and Counter.
Game 3 Turn 2 kill with counter backup.
Game 4 Turn 1 Necro (no protection but more stuff in hand). Turn 2 kill with 2x counter backup.
Game 5 Turn 1 Duress. Turn 2 wheel with B in pool and pass turn. Turn 3 kill with counter backup.
Game 6 Turn 1 Bargain with counter backup into easy turn 1 kill.
Game 7 Turn 1 Duress. Turn 2 Grim for Lotus. Turn 3 Kill with counter backup.
Game 8 Turn 1 Duress + Wheel. Turn 2, Duress into Kill.
Game 9 Turn 1 Duress. Turn 2, Yawg Will, Duress, Necro (1 storm short of kill). Turn 3 Duress and tendrils for 12. Turn 4 Duress and kill.
Game 10 Turn 1 Wheel with counter backup, BBBBB in pool (assume had to use counter), draw into a necro hand, but no other accel. Play an unprotected necro and Grim for Lotus to pay the upkeep on the counter. Untap pay the upkeep, Duress, rits, mini-tendrils and infernal for will. Turn 2 kill with protection for wheel (but not for necro).
Game 11 Mull to 5 into a hand with tendrils. Duress turn 1 and chill for a while
.killing on turn 5. Problem was Grim but no double black (drew ruby and crypt).
Game 12 Mull to 4 into an unprotected turn 2 kill. (Grim, Jet, Rit, Infernal Tutor and draw a rit)
Game 13 Mull to 6 into a turn 1 unprotected necro that I go all in on. Turn 2 kill with protection.
Game 14 Mull to 6. Turn 2 Necro with other stuff in hand but no protection. Turn 3 protected kill.
Game 15 Mull to 6. Turn 1 Duress. Turn 2 and 3 draw bad cards. Turn 4 Wheel with counter backup into kill with counter backup.
Game 16 Mull to 6. Turn 1 kill no protection.
Game 17 turn 1 kill with counter in hand for part of it, but broke LED.
Game 18 Turn 1 and 2 Duress. Turn 3 kill with counter in hand, LED broke after a grim though.
Game 19 Fizzle a wheel on turn 2.
Game 20 Turn 1 Necro with Duress protection. Turn 2 kill with double counter protection.
Game 21 Turn 2 kill w/o counter protection or turn 3 with counter (LED).
Game 22 - Mull to 5 into a spicy hand and street wraith
.fizzle.
Game 23 Mull to 5 to above hand
.I mulled it
.go to 3 to a hand with wheel. Play it turn 3 into a kill.
Game 24 Turn 2 kill w/o protection.
Game 25 Turn 2 kill w/ wheel as back up to be cast that turn.
Game 26 Turn 2 Kill with 2x counter backup.
Game 27 Mull to 6. Turn 1 wheel w/o backup into kill with counter backup.
Game 28 Mull to 5. Turn 1 duress. Turn 2 Necro. Turn 3 kill with protection.
Game 29 Mull to 6. Turn 1 wheel with no protection. Kill
Game 30 Turn 1 wheel, no backup into Necro with other business in hand. Turn 2 kill with protection.
Game 31 Mull to 6. Turn 1 kill with counter backup.
Game 32 Mull to 6. Turn 3 kill w/o backup. (draw bad stuff of top of deck).
Game 33 Turn 2 kill with counter backup.
Game 34 Turn 2 kill with counter backup.
Game 35 Turn 2 kill with counter backup.
Game 36 Mull to 5. Turn 1 duress. Turn 3 necro going all in. Turn 4 protected kill.
Game 37 Turn 3 Kill, no protection. 2x Street Wraith in hand didnt pan out well.
Game 38 Turn 1 necro w/o protection. Turn 2 double protected kill.
Game 39 Mull to 6. Turn 3 kill with protection.
Game 40 Turn 1, unprotected wheel into a kill with 3x counters.
Game 41 Turn 1 wheel without protection into kill without protection.
Game 42 Turn 2 kill with counter backup.
Game 43 Turn 1 and 2 duress. Turn 3 Yawg will into 2x Duress. Turn 4 kill with counter backup. (counted as a turn 3 with 2x Protection in data)
Game 44 Mull to 6. Turn 1 kill w/o protrection.
Game 45 Mull to 6. Turn 2 kill w/o protection.
Game 46 Turn 3 Bargain
.would have to go off turn 4 b/c cycling street wraith damage. Basically this game = lose.
Game 47 Turn 2 Kill with 2x counter backup.
Game 48 Turn 1 tendrils for 18 is open, but wait and get turn 2 kill.
Game 49 Turn 1 Duress. Turn 3 kill with counter backup.
Game 50 Turn 2 wheel with counter backup. Draw into an unprotected kill, but multiple threats.
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diopter
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2007, 01:03:11 am » |
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The 5-card hand - this hand's going nowhere for at least two turns unless you draw Mana Crypt or Black Lotus. Mulligan.
@ the deck: Have you considered running Demonic Consultation? It's risky, but you have two Tendrils.
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Machinus
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2007, 01:10:51 am » |
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My question is about Infernal Tutor...is it online often enough to be really good, or is it just in here because there are so few options in BR?
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ErkBek
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2007, 01:28:24 am » |
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My question is about Infernal Tutor...is it online often enough to be really good, or is it just in here because there are so few options in BR?
Infernal often is used to find more rituals to set up a yawg will. For example, Cabal Rit -> infernal revealing dark rit -> Dark Rit, Dark Rit etc. About 50% of the time I use infernal for this purpose. The other times I use it to either set up cabal rits to win through a chalice at 1 or to tutot up the yawg will.
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2007, 10:26:00 am » |
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You can get Infernal Tutor to work in this format, it just works in the reverse order of casting the Draw 7's first, and the deck can use Unmask to help reach hellbent etc.
I'd think about adding a Burning Wish just so the deck could use Demonic Consultation, altho' 2 kill conditions could be enough as it is.
Draw 4's would be a reasonable idea to.
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ErkBek
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2007, 10:48:26 am » |
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I initially had 4 Infernal Contracts in the deck, but I didn't like how they were playing out. I switched them over the Infernals and haven't looked back.
@Consultaion: I love this card in storm combo. I feel that this deck can't support the risk involved in running this card however. It's definitely worth a try for anyone interested in the deck.
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TopSecret
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2007, 03:56:29 pm » |
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This deck seems sweet. Thanks for posting it!
How have the Street Wraith's been so far? Have they been a bother in mulligans? Would they be better as something else when comboing?
Have you considered using Night's Whispers, since it only takes one black to use? Have you considered Overmaster as a potential protection spell for the all in spells? It draws a card!
Also, how hard is this deck to play? Could I take this deck to a tournament and top 8 without having any play skill to speak of? I'm wondering if this deck compares in skill to decks like SX, which require a large supercomputer to pilot; or if I can take my pet monkey with me to sling cards with this deck?
PS: You mulliganed a lot in your games. Would Serum Powder be a reasonable addition?
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Ball and Chain
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policehq
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2007, 04:53:41 pm » |
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This deck has a lot of restricted cards and does not depend on a specific engine card in the opening hand like Mishra's Workshop, Goblin Charbelcher, or Bazaar of Baghdad, so I do not believe Serum Powder would be a good choice.
-hq
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desolutionist
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2007, 06:02:56 pm » |
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Why not Lava Dart? It's three storm for one R.
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ErkBek
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2007, 07:45:30 pm » |
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How have the Street Wraith's been so far? Good. A deck like this really benefits from them. The deck wants to be about 40 cards, but that's obviously not possible. Have they been a bother in mulligans? Would they be better as something else when comboing? A few times, but I think they are worth it. Have you considered using Night's Whispers, since it only takes one black to use? Yes, but NW isn't so hot without off color moxen. Have you considered Overmaster as a potential protection spell for the all in spells? Nope, I don't think it would work all that well. Also, how hard is this deck to play? Could I take this deck to a tournament and top 8 without having any play skill to speak of? I'm wondering if this deck compares in skill to decks like SX,which require a large supercomputer to pilot; or if I can take my pet monkey with me to sling cards with this deck? I don't think the deck is all that hard to play. Unlike many decks in vintage, you can just ignore most of what your opponent is doing because you aren't playing interactive cards. You just need to be good with counting mana and storm....so its pretty easy. PS: You mulliganed a lot in your games. Would Serum Powder be a reasonable addition? nope, hands with Serum Powder would suck.  Why not Lava Dart? It's three storm for one R.
I considered this when building the deck, but after playing it I found it would have no place in here. Basically dart would be good in a deck that was more storm based and less yawg will based. Dart would be better in something like SX.
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Stamford
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« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2007, 06:06:49 am » |
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I have tested this deck and i must say i really like it.
This deck is superior to Meandeck Tendrils as it can match it in speed and still stay as resilient with 8 disruption cards.
I have tested it versus 5C Stax and Black Stax with Confidants and had it not been for CotV, i would get mostly turn 1-2 kills. Anyway, i goldfished it about 30 times and i think the deck has consistent turn 1-2 kills with the few occasional bad hands all combo decks have. This deck can also fully rely on Wheel of Fortune as i almost always win the moment i resolve it. There is no need to run blue spells like Brainstorm and Recall in this deck as it is already good enough as it is.
However, i highly reccommend the change of 1 Infernal Tutor to 1 Demonic Consultation / 1 Simian Spirit Guide / 1 Burning Wish as most of the time, i find Infernal Tutor to be rather inefficient.
I also reccommend that 1 Swamp comes out for 1 Underground Sea as this would give you the access of blue bounce spells so you dont auto-concede to MM or True Believer and the like. Perhaps taking out 1 more Infernal/Grim Tutor for a Chain of Vapor.
Street Wraith works surprisingly well in this deck with skip a draw tutors and had let me won some matches based on this synergy. I also almost always reach threshold if the game lasts for more than 2 turns. Pact of Negation also works well in this deck as resolving Wheel of Fortune in this deck is actually game.
Sideboard would most probably look like 3 EtW 4 Cabal Therapy 2 Simian Spirit Guide 6 other cards.
This deck has a lot of potential in it and has the power to become tier-1 in a field where Null Rod and Chalice is not as prevalent. This deck is a successful incorporation of Pact of Negation and Street Wraith into a Tendrils-based deck that does not really rely on the BS, Recall and the like.
Eric, if you designed this deck, how about giving it a proper name instead of calling it BR Tendrils?
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« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 10:25:40 am by Stamford »
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rkmancer
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2007, 09:48:31 am » |
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No ETW?? Hello, and welcome to The Mana Drain! While we appreciate new users getting involved in deck discussions, our forum rules require a minimum level of content in all posts to the boards. A two word post falls short of this standard. Please review the forum rules to avoid this sort of problem in the futre. We look forward to your future contributions. -DA
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« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 11:16:50 pm by Demonic Attorney »
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ErkBek
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2007, 11:47:52 am » |
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I'm glad to see you like the deck. I do as well.  However, i highly reccommend the change of 1 Infernal Tutor to 1 Demonic Consultation / 1 Simian Spirit Guide / 1 Burning Wish as most of the time, i find Infernal Tutor to be rather inefficient.
I also reccommend that 1 Swamp comes out for 1 Underground Sea as this would give you the access of blue bounce spells so you dont auto-concede to MM or True Believer and the like. Perhaps taking out 1 more Infernal/Grim Tutor for a Chain of Vapor.
Street Wraith works surprisingly well in this deck with skip a draw tutors and had let me won some matches based on this synergy. I also almost always reach threshold if the game lasts for more than 2 turns. Pact of Negation also works well in this deck as resolving Wheel of Fortune in this deck is actually game.
Sideboard would most probably look like 3 EtW 4 Cabal Therapy 2 Simian Spirit Guide 6 other cards I decided that when building the deck I would not have good outs to true believer and meddling mage for 3 reasons 1) UW fish should be hitting an all-time low in play once Future Sight is out 2) I can race MM or TB 3) You have men in your deck that are bigger than 2/2. If they drop a TB or MM cast those Spirit Guides and Street Wraiths! That's your kill now! In reality, I actually think is isn't that terrible of a plan. As for the SB, warrens is probably the best way to go for the stax matchup. I also think a Helm of the Awakening + Bazaar Sideboard could be effective too though. Also, Ichorid is a monster post FS, some Leylines and 1 Planar void are a must. 1 Planar void is for tutoring. Eric, if you designed this deck, how about giving it a proper name instead of calling it BR Tendrils? I've been trying to think of a good name for this for about 15 minutes now. The best thing I could come up with is Irrevocable Will or I Will for short. Here's where I'm coming from.... ir·rev·o·ca·ble adjective not to be revoked or recalled; unable to be repealed or annulled; unalterable: an irrevocable decree. wil -noun (Law) a. a legal declaration of a person's wishes as to the disposition of his or her property or estate after death, usually written and signed by the testator and attested by witnesses. b. the document containing such a declaration. - in estate planning there is something called an irrevocable trust, used to pay/avoid estate taxes upon the death of an individual that has considerable wealth. These assets are distributed through a will. Now there is no such thing as a Irrevocable Will, but I feel that the name is fitting because in this deck you mostly just try to play an Yawgmoth's Will that is protected thus it is irrevocable. So unless someone comes up with a better name (which I'd be open to hear), I'm going to call the deck I Will.
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Almighty
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2007, 11:51:47 am » |
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Since you don't really have the option of playing bounce, maybe some MD way of blowing up artifacts would be a good thing. Something to get around Chalice, Rod, or 2/3 sphere. Or does this deck just not care about those?
Call it iWill? Everything is cooler with a lowercase "i" in front of it.
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ErkBek
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2007, 12:39:27 pm » |
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Since you don't really have the option of playing bounce, maybe some MD way of blowing up artifacts would be a good thing. Something to get around Chalice, Rod, or 2/3 sphere. Or does this deck just not care about those? I don't think the deck can fit this in it, without diluting it too much, losing its overall power. If anything, maybe 1 helm or 1 bazaar could go into the deck to tutor up to play around these problematic cards. Call it iWill? Everything is cooler with a lowercase "i" in front of it.
You're right, that does look much cooler.
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2007, 09:16:45 pm » |
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I've had a higher win percentage against Fish with Unmask instead of Pact of Negation, being able to discard their Meddling Mage or Null Rod is well worth RFGing a card.
Demonic Consultation is so worth it, I'm at 1 Tendrils, 1 Warrens and 1 Wish and it's fine.
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Stamford
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2007, 09:51:37 am » |
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hmm, interesting.
I think i would test out the idea of Unmasks, in the sideboard or mainboard?
Hardcasting Street Wraiths and Simian Spirit Guides seem such a "primitive" way of playing Vintage, but nonetheless, i think i will consider and try it. The problem is, most of the time, i almost always cycle away the Street Wraiths on turn 1-2 or the moment i draw them.
The name sounds a bit weird, but i think its acceptable. Its your design anyway, so you decide what you want to call it.
Maybe, Pact of Will? POW sounds cool and looks cool too. Street Will?
This deck might be rather cheap to play, i think i will try to work towards getting the cards for this deck first instead of my original plan of getting Grim Long, but since they are quite similar and this is cheaper, i might play this if im unable to get all my cards before a tournament. The key cards of this deck is pretty much the same as Grim Long anyway.
What do you think should cover the rest of the sideboard slots? I still believe in the idea of running 1-2 Underground Sea because they allow access to Chain of Vapor and Hurkyl's Recall, which can be easiliy tutored up, considering the number of tutors this deck plays. If not, there is always the idea of running Shattering Spree and Lava Dart to counter Stax and/or Fish.
This deck is so raw, tutors, mana accelerators, disruption, the 4 best bombs (Mind's Desire is suppsoed to be the 4th and Wheel is supposed to be 5th in any Storm-based deck) and the 2 kills.
Im beginning to like this deck more and more, it hardly has any dead cards like how Grim Long has occasionally.
Lets make up a sideboard as quickly as possible so i can playtest fully with it.
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madmanmike25
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« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2007, 10:54:00 am » |
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Very interesting deck. Some comments:
My first glance leads me to question not including more moxen. You have 18 'free' mana sources, I guess it has been enough for you. I can't really include LED.
Did you test Chrome Mox? Since you have PoN and Duress you only need to cast one(typically) to win. Chrome might help make use of a potentially dead card or make it easier to cast Necro or Grim Tutor. Chrome on an SSG(however rare) is also nice. Wraith and Chrome isn't too bad either.
Memory Jar doesn't seem too dificult to cast with 4 Dark/Cabal/Rite's.
Recoup perhaps? It might make Yawg or Wheel cost 5, but that doesn't seem to problematic. It also makes LED better.
What is your honest opinion of Necropotence? Sometimes I hate casting it even on turn 2.
I can also see Unmask and Hellbent working well together.
PoN + EtW = bad. That's why it isn't in here. Why try to win in 2-3 ADDITIONAL turns?
Burning Wish seems like a good suggestions, but I think it would slow the deck down. It gives you more options yes, but what next, will you start running bounce maindeck?
Just some suggestions. I haven't tested this at all, but good luck, seems fun. What an awesome set.
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ErkBek
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« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2007, 11:26:02 am » |
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My first glance leads me to question not including more moxen. You have 18 'free' mana sources, I guess it has been enough for you. I can't really include LED.
LED is really good in here. Occasionally you have LED + Pact which sucks, but just don't break LED in that case. Wait to you draw another mana source to go for the kill. Otherwise, try to bait out a counter with a ritual off a single land in play. (opponents fear ritual -> Duress)
Did you test Chrome Mox? Since you have PoN and Duress you only need to cast one(typically) to win. Chrome might help make use of a potentially dead card or make it easier to cast Necro or Grim Tutor. Chrome on an SSG(however rare) is also nice. Wraith and Chrome isn't too bad either.
Chrome Mox doesn't seem so hot. 2 cards for 1 on-colored mana. Rituals make 2-6 mana each with yawg will.
Memory Jar doesn't seem too dificult to cast with 4 Dark/Cabal/Rite's.
Jar is probably a solid addition. I left it out of the deck, since I wanted to stray away from draw7's + pact, but wheel is so amazing in here, jar should prob get in. Possibly cutting an infernal tutor for jar would be the way to go.
Recoup perhaps? It might make Yawg or Wheel cost 5, but that doesn't seem to problematic. It also makes LED better.
Recoup would clog up things.
What is your honest opinion of Necropotence? Sometimes I hate casting it even on turn 2.
Necro is one of the reasons to play Rituals. I'd never, ever cut it, despite is occasionally sucking on turn 2.
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What are peoples thoughts of fitting in 1 Bazaar and 1 Helm into the maindeck instead of artifact removal? Both are decent combo pieces on their own and give you outs to certain cards.
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I'm thinking the deck should be looking like this
// Lands 2 Badlands 2 Bloodstained Mire 4 Polluted Delta 3 Swamp
// Creatures 2 Simian Spirit Guide 4 Zombie Cutthroat (Street Wraith)
// Spells 1 Black Lotus 4 Cabal Ritual 4 Dark Ritual 1 Demonic Tutor 4 Duress 4 Force of Will (Pact of Negation) 4 Grim Tutor 1 Imperial Seal 1 Infernal Tutor 1 Lion's Eye Diamond 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mana Vault 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby 1 Necropotence 3 Rite of Flame (you don't need 4, playing 2x Rite doesn't really help anything) 2 Tendrils of Agony 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Wheel of Fortune 1 Yawgmoth's Bargain 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Memory Jar 1 Helm of the Awakening 1 Bazaar
For a tentative SB, I'd go with something like this
4 Leyline 1 Planar Void
3 ETW 2 Bazaar 2 Helm
3 Extripate
This board folds to GY hate that will be coming in, so I think it would need some work.
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madmanmike25
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« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2007, 01:39:52 pm » |
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What are peoples thoughts of fitting in 1 Bazaar and 1 Helm into the maindeck instead of artifact removal? Both are decent combo pieces on their own and give you outs to certain cards.
Is the loss of a land drop worth Bazaar? It seems like it adds a turn to your win, though it does filter out any disrupted cards. Is one MD Helm worth it? I would guess not, but you are the one testing it. Let me know, I'm curious. 3 Rite of Flame (you don't need 4, playing 2x Rite doesn't really help anything)
Have you considered Summoner's Pact along with ESG and Tinder Wall? Tinder Wall will get you that R mana and the Pact turns ESG into a storm count. I'm loving them in my Belcher build. Maybe try them in place of the non-storm producing SSG? Maybe it won't work, I'm just tossing out ideas.
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ErkBek
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A strong play.
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« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2007, 02:46:28 pm » |
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Is the loss of a land drop worth Bazaar? It seems like it adds a turn to your win, though it does filter out any disrupted cards. Is one MD Helm worth it? I would guess not, but you are the one testing it. Let me know, I'm curious.
These are both one-of to give you outs vs. a resolved artifact. Since the deck has 4 Grims, 1 DT, 1 VT, and 1 Iseal (and 4 Street Wraith OMG!!!11!!1) locating one of these isn't all that difficult. Typically vs a chalice or sphere you can still muster up a Tutor that could be cast to find one of these. Without either of these cards you just bend over to a resolved sphere or chalice.
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« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2007, 06:33:07 am » |
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I tested a bit this list, with the following modifications: -4 Pact of Negation -1 Helm -1 Bazaar -1 Tendrils +4 Unmask +1 Rite of Flame +1 Burning Wish +1 Empty the Warrens Overall, I noticed that the bleeding caused by tutors, fetches and cyclers really weakened the effect of Bargain and Necropotence. Adding the fact that one costs 6 mana and the other requires to pass the turn, plus the possible use of Empty the Warrens as a finisher, led me to believe that they might be cut. Also, I've found Mana Vault a liability, since it can't produce the colored mana i'm so hungry for. Specifically testing against Gift and siding like -2 Cabal Ritual -1 Mana Vault +2 Pyroblast +1 Empty the Warrens I found it an unfavorable match even post-side, because they have more counters/protection, and a tutor engine that works also as card advantage. Usually games went with both of us hindering ours gameplan and then be left in topdeck mode, with him usually able to resolve sooner a gamewinning Yawgmoth's Will. I felt the need of graveyard removal, a card advantage engine and more protection. While the graveyard removal (that should consist of about 2-3 Tormod's Crypt) and might be too narrow and space eating, we might add 4 Dark Confidant (switching out the Wraiths) that are useful also in the prison mu, and up to 3 the Pyroblast count. Ps: Many times I've casted the Simian Spirit Guide and attacked for the win, you should change the deck name to Simian Aggro or something like that. Seriosly 
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"My power is as vast as the plains, my strength is that of mountains. Each wave that crashes upon the shore thunders like blood in my veins."-Memoirs
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IceOaks
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2007, 02:32:45 am » |
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Jus wondering... What do you pitch to FOW? Pitch Long plays a few Blue spells to warren the use of FOW but the only blue spell in ur deck is FOW, the maths does not allow you to draw 2 FoWs on a regular basis does it?
Jus wondering, if an opponent counters ur Pact of Negation, do you still have to pay at the next turn's upkeep if the FoN doesn't resolve? But then again, he could counter the main spell and wait for you to die next round...
The deck also feels very painful and 4 Grims and 4 Street Wraiths and 6 Fetches... Even if u resolve a Bargain or Necro, the effectiveness could be compromised...
I've not tried this deck so i cant say much for it but it seems quite unstable compared to PitchLong... Could you test out the deck in some actual play and tell me the results? Looks very fast but not sure about the stability...
Sorry, but that's not how things work. I'm not going to test just for you. Maybe you should have asked if anyone had tested any other matchups yet. -EB
(I play in a very counter-full meta, so i kinda take into consideration life loss and the possibility of not going thru even if with counter back-up, hence my views might be a little conservative even though I play a combo deck)
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« Last Edit: May 07, 2007, 04:03:46 pm by kobefan »
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Moxlotus
Teh Absolut Ballz
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« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2007, 11:34:22 am » |
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Jus wondering... What do you pitch to FOW? Pitch Long plays a few Blue spells to warren the use of FOW but the only blue spell in ur deck is FOW, the maths does not allow you to draw 2 FoWs on a regular basis does it? The deck doesn't play FoW. The deck was made before Future Sight patch for MWS came out. FoW was used as a proxy, much like Zombie Cutthroat or whatever the card is was used as a proxy to Street Wraith.
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IceOaks
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« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2007, 09:21:29 pm » |
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Oh i see.. Thanx for clearing that up... But the question about what happens to PoN remains. If PoN resolves but you're unable to combo off, then u'd be so screwed it's not funny..
And your deck overall seems more vulnerable than other longs to a Chalice 0, cos a Chalice 0 shuts down 1/2 ur protection which means an early game Chalice 0 which u'd be unable to counter with PoN cos u cant pay the next upkeep, will mean a lot more difficulty for you to combo off... Would it be better to play unmask? Or a sneaky move would be to play extirpate Mainboard... Draw a counter n extirpate it!!! That'll be quite fun... If not just extirpate a fetchland and have a look at opponent's hand to check if u can go off...
Hope that helps...
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