"Fish" cards in the Future Sight Meta

[Harlequin]

New Decks (or old decks with new tricks)

Flash Hulk --
wins by resolving flash with Protean Hulk in hand.  There are a few win conditions at this point... be it Disciple/XccArtifacts, or Karmic Guide combo - the idea is to resolve flash and win this turn.  Alternate  wins are few and far between, but that means anything card that isn't combo or mana is pure disruption.  0cc Counters and 0cc instant tutors are featured in this deck.

Brige Combo -- Ichorid on Steroids.
The deck is practically not ichorid anymore.   Sure it still runs Ichorid, but with Necromeba and bridge from below, ichorid seems to be an alternate win.  Streetwraith lets this deck shave a full turn off the old turn 4 win - and Necromeba's shave off another half turn.  This deck is fully online by turn 2 and generally ends the game on turn 3.  It may have cut back on some disruption (as compared to manaless ichorid, or mana-lite ichorid) but those cards have been cut to fuel pure speed.

Flash Tendrils --
Here is a deck that is not dirrectly helped by any FS card - but it is certainly a contender because of the recent changes to Flash.  The concept is that you have a tendrils deck with FoW, Cabal Therepy, Rector, Tinker->titan, rolled up with Flash.  This deck is much lighter on disruption than its Hulk cousin, but it generally has multiple outs for any hoser.  This deck is like Pitch-long or TPS but with an increased number of "Oops I win" buttons.

1-Land Belcher --
Yet another combo deck that seeks to draw advantage from the new array of 0-cc "pact" cards.  As the developer's state, this deck is not a good choice for a person who is weak-hearted.  This is an All-In deck that will win by turn2 upkeep or litterally loose tring (see pacts).  I'm personally not sure if its a better deck all around than Flash-Hulk.  It just feels too fragile to win enough rounds to take first ... but its a good idea to keep decks like this on the radar.

-------------------------------------
My Predictions for Metagame Shift:
R.I.P. Oath?  I think the new generations of "combo" have truely pushed Oath to be a 'budget' type 1 deck.  Having played many competative oath decks to success - I firmly believe the deck can't compete in the post-FS meta.

Traditional Stax?  Probably not... I think Ray's Staxless stax could still be a contender, and possibly could be a major contender (with ETW possibly waning in popularit).  Some of the mono-red and W/B/x stax builds look promising.

U/W fish?  Defiantly needs an overhaul.  Likely this deck will evolve into a 3 color variation to support more disruption/GY hate.

Gifts/Slaver - I think they will actually revert a bit.  I can't see EtW's being as big a powerhouse as traditional Fish and Stax evolve.  Gifts and Slaver will still be condeners simply based on sheer playability and versatility.  I'm not going to try and guess what the top designers are going to put in those "final 3 slots"...

Cards to re-think:

Leyline of the Void --
At this point, every type1 player has been considering LLVoid.  So this is far from Secrete Tech.  It stops Hulk, Rector and the new Ichoird decks.  Whats not to love?  Well, remember I said "every" type 1 player ... The designers of the new decks are well aware of this card, and will be prepared to deal with it.
The downside of this card is that it can often come at a really large cost of mulling aggressively.  If you mull to 4 cards and drop it then ichorid plays turn 1 Abolish ... you will certainly loose. 
The plus side is that it is probably the only card that's not FoW that can stop the turn 1 flash kill.  But anyone who thinks 4 LLVoids will be enough to fight the meta is probably in for a big disappointment.


Yixlid Jailer --
AH HA! the other card that from Future Sight that was designed to stop all these shenanagins.  Yixlid Jailer is yet another card that could be good to keep away ichorid - but again its just one card.  Mulling to double land Yixlid Jailer is just as bad as mulling to LL.  But again we have yet another tool to work in our favor against Ichorid.  The more we can pack into a deck the better chances we have to get an answer on the board by turn 2.  Another great advantage of this card is that Ichorid generally will only have 4 chain of vapors to answer it.  No worries about abolish, emerald charm, or other white enchantment removal.

Children of Korlis --
mm..  My diamond in the Rough.  This card is the only card outside of leyline that really stands a chance to make "hate" decks viable.  Turn 1 land Korlis is enough to stave off a win from either variants of the flash deck.  Flash hulk generally only has enough (8x4=) 32 independent life loss triggers.  With Korlis you that brings you to 7 life.  Korlis also indirectly shuts of Pact of Negation and Summoner's Pact unless they are sure they can win.  Korlis is also of some benefit against Flash Rector, however yawgbargin is a big card and it with it flash rector can storm up 40 dmg fairly easily.  But it certainly makes them think harder and forces them to win big.  Lastly turn 1 Koris is a huge advantage against Ichoird.  Not for the life-gain but for the 1 mana free sac'ing creature.  Many Ichorid players forget about the second ability on Bridge from below: Whenever a Creature is put into your opponent's graveyard from play, if BfB is in your Graveyard Remove it from the game.  This lets you pop your Korlis at the end of thier draw step to RFG all bridges in thier yard.  This can buy you atleast a turn or 2, and at best it can straight win you the game (by forcing them to deck themself if they were too greedy).

Aven Mindcensor --
Another really intersting card that appears to have the eternal formats in mind.  The problem on the surface is finding a deck that can afford to hold back 3 mana a turn -and- plays small beaters.  Mindcensor clearly shines against Flash-hulk and does a decent job of shutting down rector (and tendrils decks in general). 

Extirpate --
I think Extirpate could grow in popularity with the next set.  Obviously hitting something like Bridge or Ichorid against Ichorid can be back-breaking.  The card actaully can be really good against Flash.  Extirpating a Flash from Flash hulk can be a coupe-de-gras.  So Rit Duress Extirpate is well worth burning for 1   Even against Flash Tendrils you can really squeeze out wins with this card if you cast it at just the right time.  Hitting Dark Rit as they start to go off can starve thier black mana making it impossible to cast Tendrils.   Also you can use it against Rector while the rector ability is on the stack.  Aside from all of that it gives you a quick uncounterable look at thier hand so you can judge how many turns you have, and what answers you need to get.
The key problem with Extirpate is it's not very good with other cards you might want to run.  Namely Leyline and Mindcensor.

Planer Void --
Another great card that is hard to fit into a deck...  I think given the right deck 3 Voids + 2-3 tutors is better than 4 leylines and 1-2 tutors. Void has two major advantages over leyline #1) it can be tutored for, and #2) it can be replayed after it is bounced (assumeing you get another turn).  The other fringe benefit is you can still technically play Extripates in the same deck as planervoid. 
Obviously the disadvantage is that its not a turn 0 card.  And it doesn't stop either version of Flash (if your opponent understands APNAP).

Samuria of the Pale Curtain --
Possibly better than Planarvoid.  Stops Bridge and slows Ichorid.  It doesn't stop neither shadow, dread return, or necromeba ... so it helps against ichorid.  It does stop Flash though.  Also a 2/2 bod with bushido 1 is nice against other fish-style decks.  All around a good tech.  The only trouble is WW in a 3 color deck.  Droping this guy turn 1 is probably not likely even with full mox.

Honor the Fallen --
Yet another white diamond in the rough.  On par with Pale Curtain - weaker but costs 1W which could make all the difference.  It -can- be good against hulk flash because it -can- save you from loosing.  However if they run the full 8 xcc creatures then your looking at taking 32 and only gaining back 9.  If they go for 7 creatures then you -still- loose with 28 and 8 life regained.  But if they drew a disciple or a few creatures honor the fallen will be enough to stabilize.  Honor also shuts down Karmic guide mid-combo.  Lastly, against Ichorid you can cripple thier dredge engine - which could be more potent then attacking their creatures, depending on how the board is developed.

New Age of "Fish" decks.
------------------------------------
B/u/w Fish - Darkfish
12 duels/basics/fetches
5 (lotus, 3 mox, chrome/petal?)
5 Strip/waste
-22-
4 Children of Korlis
4 Dark Confidant
4 Meddling Mage
3 Cutpurse
-15-
3 Null Rod
3 Planarvoid
-6-
3 AR, TW, DT
4 Duress
4 Force of Will
3 Extirpate
3 Extract
-17-
-----BOARD----
4 SpellSnare
3 Honor the Fallen
3 Jitte
3 Orirm Chant
2 Energy Flux

Its 3 colors.  It has 3 extract and 3 extripate on the main, this ensure you can drop a meddling mage naming the right card.  4 Force and 4 Duress are staple disruption cards and it has cutpurse + confidant for draw.  It features a full 4 wasteland in addition to strip to help destroy bazaar.  Maindeck Yixlid Jailer and Planarvoid put pressure on the yard, and ofcouse 4 korlis for disruption against flash and Ichorid alike.

=====================================
B/w Neo-disruption

14 duels/basics/fetches
3 artifact mana
4 Strip/waste
4 Dark ritual

4 Children of Korlis
4 Dark Confidant
3 Yixlid Jailer
3 Mindcensor
2 Hypnotic Spector
-16-

4 Duress
3 Null Rod
4 Combination of:
  -Edict
  -E.Decay
  -Seal of cleansing

3 Planarvoid
3 Cabal Therapy
3 DT Vamp Necro
----------

4 Extirpate
3 Jitte/SofI
3 Samurai of the Pale curtain
3 Orirm Chant
2 Serenity/Seal of Cleansing

This version of the deck makes the plunge into white and black only.  It moves the Extirpates to the board and opts for maindeck Mindcensors, while Still running Yixlid Jailer and Planarvoid.   It goes for Dark Rituals in place of some off color mox, and cuts back to 3 wastelands. It runs Hypy for added disruption against flash on a slow hand.  I added Necro to this deck because of the dark rituals,  It essential takes the place of Ancestral Recall.

[GrandpaBelcher]

Extirpate --
I think Extirpate could grow in popularity with the next set.  Obviously hitting something like Bridge or Ichorid against Ichorid can be back-breaking.  The card actaully can be really good against Flash.  Extirpating a Flash from Flash hulk can be a coupe-de-gras.  So Rit Duress Extirpate is well worth burning for 1   Even against Flash Tendrils you can really squeeze out wins with this card if you cast it at just the right time.  Hitting Dark Rit as they start to go off can starve thier black mana making it impossible to cast Tendrils.   Also you can use it against Rector while the rector ability is on the stack.  Aside from all of that it gives you a quick uncounterable look at thier hand so you can judge how many turns you have, and what answers you need to get.
The key problem with Extirpate is it's not very good with other cards you might want to run.  Namely Leyline and Mindcensor.

Having tested against new Ichorid (Bridge Combo, if you will, and I might) with 4 maindeck Extirpates in a UB Fish shell, I can say with some certainty that Ichorid doesn't care at all anymore.  There are too many redundant targets now.  You have to hit Bridges and Ichorids and part of the combo (Dread Returns or Sutured Ghouls) before they even care, and that means having Extirpates probably first and second turn.  In one game, I Stifled and Wasted my opponent's first turn Bazaar, Extirpated it, and still lost.

For the record, Extirpate and Aven Mindcensor work just fine together (Mindcensor only stops an opponent's searches), but you're right that Leyline and Extirpate fight all the time and need counseling.  Also, Extirpate is still a really powerful effect against a good chunk of the Vintage metagame.  Flash in particular is hilariously disabled most of the time if its Flashes or Hulks get taken.

Children of Korlis is actually a pretty good option because you can sacrifice it to remove Bridges.  Other, similar creatures may also be looked at as mini-Extirpates versus Bridge.  Will Hapless Researcher be making appearances in Vintage soon?!

Mindcensor seems like it should be played in a fully powered UWx Fish list to work well.  With all five moxen it should drop in the first two turns when it will do the most good against fetchlands and setup tutors.  I haven't put anything specific together yet, but I'll probably be trying something along those lines soon after the GP.  Could it fit into a Bomberman shell?

I've been using Samurai of the Pale Curtain in Legacy and have been pleased with the results there.  If it wasn't WW, it could be my new best friend.  Has anyone considered using Aether Vials again?  Even White Weenie doesn't look too bad anymore as a strategy--would giving up the possibility of Force of Will be worth the coonsistency of a monocolored deck?  My guess is no, not in Vintage.  Unfortunately.

I wish Yixlid Jailer worked better against decks that aren't Bridge Combo.

[Harlequin]

wow, I didn't think about that with extripate and Mindcensor!  I just assumed becasue you were searching their deck it was shut off (almost like your opponents decks can't be searched).  I'll probably re-edit some of that paragraph, thanks for the heads up. 

About the Extirpates, I found that the new age of ichorid is basically all about the bridge.  In my (somewhat) limited testing, I've found Extirpates to be decent against Ichorid.  As I elude to, theres never 1 card that can totally shut the deck down - but as you compound several threats you can work up a win.  for example turn 1 Children, turn 2 extirpate Ichorid poses a real delema for the deck.

[BreathWeapon]

All of the Split Second cards are amongst the best cards to SB in against Flash, be it Wipe Away, Trick Bind, Extirpate or Sudden Shock, your turning off all of their free disruption, and you can protect yourself against Duress with Brainstorm or Force of Will.

What's wrong with Oath? Chalice of the Void owns Pact of Negation and Summoner's Pact as well as half of their mana base. I'm not convinced that Flash Rector or 1 Land Belcher are even viable considerations when you have Flash Hulk and Pith Long to choose from. so I don't see how they could be keeping Oath out of the metagame.

[Jank Golem]

I'm a really big fan of Leyline of the Void in the maindeck of Fish. Besides being incredible vs. Flash and Ichorid it is a solid choice against any deck. Against Gifts and Combo it shuts down will and against Fish it can even starve their Grunts. Planar Void and Samurai are also decent choices, but the fact that they are counterable and don't cover as large a range as Leyline makes them weaker overall. Samurai can only hit permentants, and both Flash and Dragon can play around Planar Void. I could still see Samurai seeing play because he is also relevant being a 2/2 body and serves as backup if your Leyline plan doesn't work.

Another card to consider in Fish is Chalice of the Void, not only does it stop artifact mana it can also hit pacts. It can also help fish keep up with the speed of the format, I wouldn't replace Rod entirely with Chalice but I could see running a 3/3 or a 2/4 variation. Non-Blue Fish decks are going to have a very difficult time competing as the format gets faster 4 FOW and 4 Daze are really key.

[Warden]

I agree with whats been said, especially extirpate and chalice

Jank, I see what you're talking about...beat me to it on the dazes
If I may add some cards and reasoning:
-Children of Korlis / Hapless Researcher (wow never though of him) / Spiketail Hatchling
.....for their sacrifice ability + simply remove the bridges from the graveyard
-Echoing Truth: zombie tokens from Ichorid's Bridges and Empty the Warrens. This will probably be an essential piece of the puzzle
-Jotun Grunt: for those going white, it's a grave-eating beater and you'll never run out of fuel against ichorid
-Yixlid Jailer: stop their plans if you're splashing black
-Daze: for those who are against/don't like it, there's too many key spells going off earlier and earlier (Flash, Dread Return, etc) that must be shut off
Other Choices:
-Morningtide: more of a SB choice but not too many other options for GY hate that aren't permanents (Crypt, ect.)
-Raze: for those going with red in the deck, this kills mana-less ichorid. your land loss isnt as bad as theirs. not to mention if they retrieve it or lay another, you got Wasteland or Strip Mine. possible SB/MD, depending on builds
-Shadow of Doubt: stops combo..can stop saclands or tutors and at worst, it's a cantrip for U/B x2

*edited

[hitman]

Leyline will be ineffective against Flash because they play 4 merchant scroll and will just bounce it back to your hand.

[Jank Golem]

Leyline will be ineffective against Flash because they play 4 merchant scroll and will just bounce it back to your hand.

Beats sitting there getting the crap kicked out of you by Flash. All decks run answers to hate, but that doesn't make that hate ineffective. You still have counters and more hate as backup. This is yet another reason running blue and countermagic is so huge.

[hitman]

I don't think Flash has good game against Fish in general.  You don't need to play narrow uncastable cards to beat it.  You have Swords, Duress and Extirpate, Force of Will, Meddling Mage, Daze, etc.  All I'm saying is, when they bounce it to your hand, it'll be dead.

[Kieranwolf]

There are only three cards that are worth boarding in against Ichorid IMHO:

1. Leyline of the Void
2. Planar Void
3. Yixlid Jailer

Samurai and Children of Korlis do a good job of nuking Bridge and (the former) also prevents recurring creatures, but Narcomoeba is still a danger as well as multiple Shadows/Ichorids appearing. You still get Therapied out and smashed in the face, it just takes a little longer most of the time.

Everyone who thinks that destroying Bazaar or keeping relevant cards in their hand after Ichorid decides to win is in for a rude awakening. Ichorid is designed to remove counterspells and any in-hand card that could do anythiing to to Dread Return or Sutured Ghoul on its winning turn. It has also been clearly stated that one Bazaar activation is enough to facilitate Ichorid's win post-FS.

Therefore, you need to depend on the black cards and your deck's ability to drop them as early as possible and defend them while you set up your clock.

I'm also quite looking forward to neutering Flash decks with Extirpate or Jailer, though I may just go with Void if I need to save sideboard space. :/

[Phele]

It might be a little bit costy, but Ghostly Prison works pretty fine against Ichorid and Kiki-Flash as well. At least in Bomberman it could be a possibility.

BtW: Why do you so Oath so exklusivly on the way out of the metagame. I don't see many other decks that could include Leylines main (maybe instead of Chalice) so easily and not weakening the Gifts, Long or Slaver matchup too much by that move.

[Harlequin]

There are a few things that I see making oath a "second pick" deck.  The most important and measurable is that it gains nothing with FS.  Essentially every other deck creeps froward (in power level) slightly and Oath does not.  Compound that with the idea that Oath is not widely considered a Tier 1 deck now anyways.

At best, Oath is a solid meta deck.  And it is designed to attack an Agro and Control meta.  That being said, most of the discussion right now on the street is about "what combo deck is the best"  so I would say the Oath has the meta working against it.

Lastly with flash on the market, It seems like an all around better 2 casting cost win condition.  On top of that Oath can't run Pacts (back to the no FS cards).

------------------------------------
All that being said, I'm actually working on an Oath deck for my brother.  There is alot of exciting hate cards that could certainly make the deck viable.  Certainly Blazing Archon in the board will give you a practically untouchable win condition agianst Ichorid -if- you can get it in play before you loose.  Tidespool is pretty good as well.

[Nydaeli]

It seems like the emergence of Ichorid and Flash may make Trinket Mage good.  Tormod's Crypt is a bomb against Ichorid, and Needle is good against at least some versions of Flash (as well as nailing Bazaar against Ichorid).  Engineered Explosives is also fetchable for ETW.

[NicolaeAlmighty]

Now... Refresh my memory. How does Children stop Flash? With the Disciple variant, it could easily stall them out (like Tendrils, letting each trigger resolve then sac before lethal). The Karmic Guide variant, however, deals infinite damage with like 1000000 Karmic Guide tokens. Children against the Disciple kill is like Children against Tendrils. They sit there in full view of the opponent, allowing him/ her to easily get rid of it before comboing out. Children seems to me like a very poor answer to that variant (which in my opinion is better) of Flash.

Against Ichorid, it's ok... But just OK. It doesn't do anything truly amazing. Maybe they'll just go Ichorid beatdown or even Sultured Ghoul FTW even if you get rid of their Bridges. If you wait until after their attack to Children to stop the beats/ gain life back/ get rid of Bridges, then you'll face the dilemma of them having the Zombie tokens in play.

Children just seems as useless now as always... At least in Fish.

You make very good points on the other things, although I think that mulling to Leyline against Ichorid is definitely not a bad play... It will put them in a very uncomfortable position (especially if they kept a fast hand which means few answers).

[Harlequin]

I will concede that Children of Korlis does little against Karmic Guide Flash.  However, the Karmic version of the deck -is- vaulnerable to hate cards that the Hulk version is not.  Namely spot GY removal, and to put a fine point on it -> extripate.  Also the Karmic build is hurt by splash damage from bounce, edict, targeted removal, and pithing needle, all of which are cards that fish may choose to run.  Lastly, the Karmic build gets less mileage out of pact of negation, because it cannot win in the upkeep.  For all these reasons, I think a fish deck has a good matchup against the karmic guide version of the deck.  On the other hand I think the hulk version could give fish a harder time, thus the consideration for Children of Korlis.

Children against the Disciple kill is like Children against Tendrils. They sit there in full view of the opponent, allowing him/ her to easily get rid of it before comboing out.

What more could you ask from a 1 drop?  This fits perfectly into the fish gameplan.  You're not attempting to lock them out of the game, your just making them wait longer and longer to win.  Sure sitting in play is a drawback, but a card in hand has to break through a counterwall or somehow evade duress.  Every option has it's drawback.

[NicolaeAlmighty]

Lastly, the Karmic build gets less mileage out of pact of negation, because it cannot win in the upkeep.

I believe the Pact of Negation is a reactive Counterspell... Much like Misdirection. Pact is for that spot removal/ graveyard (non Extirpate) hate. In that sense, it a perfect fit in the build. The Karmic Guide variant can be more protective because it has more slots to work with, unlike the Disciple version. If we want to debate which is better, though, we can do it in that thread.

What more could you ask from a 1 drop?  ...  Every option has it's drawback.

I would agree except with that logic it should be seeing more play in Fish. If the Grim/ Pitch long matchups aren't incentive enough to play Children, I don't think Flash will be either. Children, on its own, is just bad. I'd rather have that mana up for a Stifle than Children... And by the number of Children in decklists, I think the Fish community would agree.

[BreathWeapon]

Children of Korlis is a 2xMeddling Mage on Summoner's Pact and Pact of Negation, that can't be that awful against them.

[NicolaeAlmighty]

Children of Korlis is a 2xMeddling Mage on Summoner's Pact and Pact of Negation, that can't be that awful against them.

How? Because they "can't win" with Children out? If Children had Flash, this would be true.

[madmanmike25]

I would say that this set is a pretty big coffin nail for decks that do not run Force of Will, Ichorid aside.  That is why I have always said that Fish NEEDS blue to support FoW and that Fish decks without it are flat out inferior.

1-Land Belcher --
Yet another combo deck that seeks to draw advantage from the new array of 0-cc "pact" cards.  As the developer's state, this deck is not a good choice for a person who is weak-hearted.  This is an All-In deck that will win by turn2 upkeep or litterally loose tring (see pacts).  I'm personally not sure if its a better deck all around than Flash-Hulk.  It just feels too fragile to win enough rounds to take first ... but its a good idea to keep decks like this on the radar.

Not sure how to compare it being "better" or not, but one thing that I personally love about my Belcher build is that it is immune to GY hate.  I could not care less if Time Twister doesn't shuffle back anything.  Games against Stax/Ichorid matchups on the play are highly favorable since PoN comes out and the deck gets even faster.  Fragile it may be, but the random wins are great.  SB accordingly.

I also think that's what will make Hulk Flash a real contender:  The ability to pull random turn 1 wins more often than Rector Flash.  It comes at a cost (as with Belcher decks) but you can't argue with those wins.

My Predictions for Metagame Shift:
R.I.P. Oath?  I think the new generations of "combo" have truely pushed Oath to be a 'budget' type 1 deck.  Having played many competative oath decks to success - I firmly believe the deck can't compete in the post-FS meta.

I would disagree here.  I think that Oath just needs to follow the Carps' build with Chalice/Null Rod/MisD.  Some have said that Oath is the better Fish deck.  Maybe this is true now.  How well does Fish do against Oath?  What can a turn 2 (or later) Grunt do to an Angel?  Not needing Orchard is a huge plus, and MisD helps the STP problem which is now becoming an Echoing Truth problem post EtW.

Traditional Stax?  Probably not... I think Ray's Staxless stax could still be a contender, and possibly could be a major contender (with ETW possibly waning in popularit).  Some of the mono-red and W/B/x stax builds look promising.

The reason that Stax will pretty much always be around is that it can very consistently cast great disruption cards like Trinisphere, Null Rod, Chalice, and Sphere of Resistance without crippling itself too much.  Fish cannot always cast Null Rod turn 1 the way Stax can.  The purpose of the non-red Stax decks is to include tutors *mainly* for Stripmine.  If a deck can win with one land drop and a mox, what good is Stripmine now?  I have always preferred Mono-Red Stax, it is truly a shame that nothing new has come out to help Stax players.  Magus of the Moon does NOT play well with Bazzars and Shops.  A first turn Smokestack is still nice to drop on the play against most decks barring Ichorid.

U/W fish?  Defiantly needs an overhaul.  Likely this deck will evolve into a 3 color variation to support more disruption/GY hate.

I am more inclined to think that Fish needs 2 colors (U/W) and full moxen.  Aven Mindcensor is one reason for this imo.  I do not think Isamaru or Lions are going to cut it anymore.  It could still run Null Rod since Fish is notorious for low CC creatures.  How much hate before you water down the deck too much?  At what point will Fish run 8 or less creatures and be stuffed with too many hate cards MD?  As has been stated, maybe a reevaluation of Daze is in order.  Of course it's not very potent against 8 Spirit guides, but still....

Planer Void --
Another great card that is hard to fit into a deck...  I think given the right deck 3 Voids + 2-3 tutors is better than 4 leylines and 1-2 tutors. Void has two major advantages over leyline #1) it can be tutored for, and #2) it can be replayed after it is bounced (assumeing you get another turn).  The other fringe benefit is you can still technically play Extripates in the same deck as planervoid. 
Obviously the disadvantage is that its not a turn 0 card.  And it doesn't stop either version of Flash (if your opponent understands APNAP).

But it can be bounced!!!!  Seriously, it gets old when you hear this about any hate card.  I usually just say "What if your bounce gets countered?".  Both counter/bounce are possible scenarios, but that is the nature of MTG, you have your opponent to deal with.  If the card offers vaild disruption, bounce should not be a reason you don't play with it.  I think this is a nifty little card for a measly one mana.  Not the be all end all, but effective.

Interesting post, very thought provoking.  I don't think that a B/W Fish deck is the way to go though.  I think U/W would be best. 

P.S.  Is aggro truly dead?  Would a Goblin deck have to run 4 REB, 4 Pryo, AND 4 Cotv in order to compete?  Should every non-combo deck run Cotv to handle the new Pacts?  Thoughts?

[policehq]

Aggro decks don't need to play Chalice of the Void for Pact of Negation, but bombs like Null Rod, Tormod's Crypt, etc. to deal with the bomb Pact of Negation is meant to protect.

-hq

[Spacebalzz]

Just a thought, have you thought of using Sphere of Resistance (and likewise Trinisphere) in B/W Fish Builds.  With the low casting cost of all your spells, it doesn't tend to hurt you to badly.  For your opponent on the other hand, it slows them down dramatically with all the waste effects you are running, not to mention this makes Extirpating lands worthwhile.  In my recent testing (specifically against Hulk), Sphere and Null Rod is nearly game ending as you completely screw their manabase, which is weak, at best.
Cheers,
-Matt 

[madmanmike25]

Aggro decks don't need to play Chalice of the Void for Pact of Negation, but bombs like Null Rod, Tormod's Crypt, etc. to deal with the bomb Pact of Negation is meant to protect.

-hq

Rod and Crypt are great.  Only problem is that you use one or the other and thats still only 4 cards.  How much should an aggro deck mulligan to get one of those 4 cards?  My main concern about aggro is that I don't think it can succeed very well without FoW.  Chalice is great on the play, but it is only easy for Shop decks to manipulate them after casting them @ 0.  Null Rod has a nice blanket effect, but if run in decks with only 3 artifact accelerants it won't come out turn 1 that often.  This is even more painful if you are on the draw as turn 4 may be too late.

With combo decks increasing the probablity of turn 1/2 wins, does (non-Fish/Oath)aggro stand a chance? 

Also, what is the 'best' aggro creature?  Grunt?  Too bad you can't cast him on turn 1 unless you have a Lotus/Petal and a Fetchland.  Juggs?  When was the last time he won a game...  Is Goblin Piledriver the best aggro creature Vintage has to offer??  It's quite difficult to pick the 'best' hard-castable critter for aggro in Vintage.   

Spacebalzz, have you considered Glowrider for U/W builds instead of Spheres in a B/W deck?

[BreathWeapon]

Aggro decks don't need to play Chalice of the Void for Pact of Negation, but bombs like Null Rod, Tormod's Crypt, etc. to deal with the bomb Pact of Negation is meant to protect.

-hq

Free card that counters 25% of their deck vs 2cc card that can't be cast before Flash wins the game at least half of the time, hmm, tough call.

[NicolaeAlmighty]

Free card that counters 25% of their deck vs 2cc card that can't be cast before Flash wins the game at least half of the time, hmm, tough call.

Intelligent input that requires a minimum of 2% brain activity vs generic Rtard statement blanketed with sarcasm. Hmm, tough call.

One of the best lists I've seen thus far as far as aggro disruption goes is the BWR Man Prison deck.

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=32237.0

He has a pretty strong game against most of the field... If you can part with Force of Will, that is  I don't doubt Mindcensor will find a home in this build... Although if thats the case, Sphere will probably go to the board.

[Jacob Orlove]

Both of you are being unnecessarily snarky. Stop.

-Jacob

[TopSecret]

I don't think that much'll change with Future Sight's release
as far as the process of fish deck building is concerned.

It's a metagame deck after all, so it just needs to metagame a little differently if the metagame changes.

The only real problem that could be raised is if a deck's engine becomes such that it's faster than
other decks, and still not effected efficiently by hate (Ichorid?!).

  I'm not sure that'll happen, but such problems would probably end in restrictions.
  I don't believe such a problem'll just effect fish.
  Hell, if a fish deck's hate can't keep up with such a dedicated deck, like Ichorid,
  what're the chances that the other decks like Gifts and combo, which're built to not be reactive,
  will have serious trouble with it as well? Pretty good, I'd say.

The problem with Fish in general is that if you can't keep up with the metagame,
you're going to have a lot of trouble.

So, right after Future Sight hits there'll probably be a slight metagame shift and the like,
fish won't be so hot, and then things'll settle again.

However, if the initial rumble and tumble of the new set's introduction doesn't blow over,
as in one deck becomes dominant (or Vintage isn't fun anymore... God forbid), then there's a problem.
There shouldn't be a problem with fish. If there is, then there're probably bigger fish to fry (I made a funny).

For example, look at GP Columbus (Yeah, Legacy, I know).
Sure, Flash is pretty busted in Legacy, but fish can still beat it.
If that isn't the case post Future Sight,
you can be sure that there'll be cries in the Legacy community to have Flash banned.

PS: Oath gets Delay from Future Sight, which may be better than Mana Leak.

[Warden]

The only real problem that could be raised is if a deck's engine becomes such that it's faster than
other decks, and still not effected efficiently by hate (Ichorid?!).

Hapless Researcher (yes, him of all people!) has been testing with good results against Ichorid. I play 4 MD, plus it can be pitched to Force of Will. Reasoning behind this is to efficiently remove the bridge from belows from the game. And on top of that, it's an activated ability requiring no tapping so you could sac a dude in responce to them doing combos or right afte rthen dump a bridge or 2 into the grave.

Leyline hurts but there are ways around it.

As for the rest of the FS decklists,
Just up the Echoing Truths to 2-3, depending on the meta and if anyone has nice cards to disrupt the opponent that are new, feel free to drop a name or two.
Flash is tricky to me (probably because I havent played against it much), does anyone know what efficiently knocks them out?