Nether Scourge

[zimagic]

I'm thinking about a re-look at a "Nether" creature.

I'd like it to be a little more recursive than the once per upkeep trigger or if another creature dies triggers and, in keeping with the "Only Creature" theme of Nether Spirit, I let it interact with itself. If you want the creature to stick you need to pay the life however as it's written now it has a nasty loop. I saw the loop early enough which is why I also added the Haakon-esque from graveyard only rule though that's more of a desgin obstacle than a power reduction.

Original:
 
Nether Scourge
Creature - Spirit

You may play Nether Scourge from your graveyard, but not from anywhere else.

When ~this~ comes into play, sacrifice it unless you pay 3 life.

Whenever ~this~ is put into your graveyard from play, if ~this~ is the only creature card in your graveyard, you may return ~this~ to play.
2/2

Thoughts?

Revised:
 
Nether Scourge
Creature - Spirit

You may play Nether Scourge from your graveyard, but not from anywhere else.

When ~this~ comes into play, sacrifice it unless you pay 2 life.

Whenever ~this~ is put into your graveyard from play, you may pay . If you do and ~this~ is the only creature card in your graveyard, you may return ~this~ to play.
2/2

[Anusien]

Can you try to differentiate this from Haakon more?  They seem very similar, down to the play from a graveyard only and the 3 life.

[parallax]

I'm thinking about a re-look at a "Nether" creature.

Nether Scourge
Creature - Spirit

You may play Nether Scourge from your graveyard, but not from anywhere else.

When ~this~ comes into play, sacrifice it unless you pay 3 life.

Whenever ~this~ is put into your graveyard from play, if ~this~ is the only creature card in your graveyard, you may return ~this~ to play.
2/2

Thoughts?

Perhaps "Whenever ~this~ is put into your graveyard from play, if ~this~ is the only creature card in your graveyard, you may pay 3 life. If you do, you may return ~this~ to play. "

Otherwise you get infinite loops that combo with Nantuko Husk.

[zimagic]

Can you try to differentiate this from Haakon more?  They seem very similar, down to the play from a graveyard only and the 3 life.

Well it's kinda intended that way, even with the Scourge in the name. The recursive 2/2 creatures generally cost 3, the play from graveyard text is essentially the Haakon text with edits and added as a restriction to try to counteract the loopiness. The 3 life is because 4 life is too much for a 2/2 that is better looping than as a 2/2 in most cases and 2 life felt too little.

That said, if I added a mana requirement, 2 life would probably be fine.

Perhaps "Whenever ~this~ is put into your graveyard from play, if ~this~ is the only creature card in your graveyard, you may pay 3 life. If you do, you may return ~this~ to play. "

Otherwise you get infinite loops that combo with Nantuko Husk.

I kinda want loops, but not something that's too easy to do. Paying the life to keep a 2/2 is not amazing and leaves you really needing to play life gain effects.

When I came up with it initially I steered away from a mana ability to keep away from Nether Traitor but I think the uniquness coupled with maybe a  recursion cost would probably be enough now. You'll need a boat load of mana to keep him coming back with any regularity.

Regarding Nantuko Husk, if someone killed the Husk in response, the Scourge would never come back due to there being another creature in the 'yard.

 

[Upinthe]

Am I missing something? This plus Bitter Ordeal is game over.

[zimagic]

Am I missing something? This plus Bitter Ordeal is game over.

Hum, taking my suggested change into account: (add a mana requirement, reduce life cost to keep him in play.)


Nether Scourge
Creature - Spirit

You may play Nether Scourge from your graveyard, but not from anywhere else.

When ~this~ comes into play, sacrifice it unless you pay 2 life.

Whenever ~this~ is put into your graveyard from play, you may pay . If you do and ~this~ is the only creature card in your graveyard, you may return ~this~ to play.
2/2

With an added mana cost the loops are restricted to X, where X = (your available mana) -  (CC) / half of your remaining mana rounded down.

I think with Bitter Ordeal, that's not too abusive. If you started the turn with him in the yard, you'd need  to remove 3 cards and he'd still be in the yard.

There's always the option of changing the cost to a single  . In comparison to the above example, with the same mana investment, he'd only remove a single additional card. Problems then only start to arise when you add Coffers, Gauntlet, Heartbeat or similiar effects which turns the interaction into a 3 card combo all requiring a significant mana investment in themselves.

Don't forget that there's better and better graveyard hate out there with each set, so revolving your deck around a single interaction that passes through the GY is itself very risky.

Is  too little or  too much?

Is the life loss requirement needed with the inclusion of a mana requirement?

Can anyone think of other negative interactions taking into account the modified wording?