4 Gush Turboland?!?!

[lordarcanis]

Hello there!!  Once again it is time for me to come up with some crazy idea that might be sub-par as a tourney deck, but sure is fun.  You all have been really helpful so far (and some of my ideas weren't so good...), so here goes!!  (This is what I would call an early version of the deck, it has only had minor tweaks since my first idea).

TurboLand V1.0
4 Exploration
3 Horn of Greed
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Zuran Orb
4 Gush
4 Brainstorm
3 Merchant Scroll
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Living Wish
1 Sundering Titan
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Fastbond
1 Regrowth
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
6 Island

SB
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Vinelasher Kudzu
1 The Tabernacle at Pendril Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urza's Factory
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Strip Mine

Before I get into the deck itself, I will admit that the only chance I have had to play with it have been about twenty games of goldfishing, so here is what I have found so far:
1.  This thing has TONS of mana!!  I could pretty easily use any mana dump in here, but was unable to find one that fits.
2.  Living Wish is awesome.  This was never a dead card.  It fetches win conditions and defense (mostly Glacial Chasm), and only costs 1G.  That means that on turn two on I can use this to fetch something and play it in the same turn.
3.  Vinelasher Kudzu functions much the same way in this deck that Quirion Dryad functions in GAT: it sits around, getting really huge and is a great win condition on its own.
4.  As a flipside to having a ton of mana, I find myself emptying my hand rather quickly.  It seems like I may need more draw but do not know quite where to take it.
5.  I have three of most of the combo peices because it really sucks having one in play and staring at another in your hand.

That is most of the non-obvious things that I want to say about the card choices specifically, but a couple of things in general:  First, I am not the best deck builder in the world, and obviously I am missing some vital things such as bounce and a way to beat Ichorid (I really doubt Leylines in the SB are good enough).  Second, I feel that this deck needs, by its nature, more land than most other vintage decks, but I still very well may have too much.  Third, this deck does have a lot of synergy, but that isn't all that is needed to win games.  And finally, this deck is really a blast to play!!!  You should try it!! 

Thanks for reading, and I am open to any and all suggestions!!

[StarOrc]

Looks neat but could still use some tweaking. First off you probably don't need 3 Z Orbs its the weakest combo piece and doesn't do much without the others, I would cut 1. Secondly you definately don't need Tinker and Titan, you have 4 Living Wish for Barbarian Ring and I would actually include 1 Ring main. You could probably use Fastbond since it lets the combo go Infinte. As far as having extra combo pieces you probably want to be holding Brainstorm until you have a Fetch and not using Fetches unless you need to till you have Brainstorm. That should allow you to get rid of some of the extra combo pieces. The inclusion of Strip Mine in the board would be a good one and probably 2 Wastes main.

My Suggestions:
-1 Z Orb
-1 Tinker
-1 Titan
-3 Island

+1 Fastbond
+1 Barbarian Ring
+2 Wasteland
+2 Merchant Scroll (Finds Ancestral or Gush)

+1 Strip Mine (Board)


Star

[senpai]

i would personally consider moving the kudzus to the maindeck, they are a real beast there. how good is living wish though? it seems to be interesting tech, but I question somewhat its value over other slots.

[Arctanis]

Where is Fastbond?  This is an absolute must in Turboland.  Once you draw into it, your chances of winning the game increase dramatically.  I like the direction you took with the deck though...with the new release of gush from the restricted list, I am also looking forward to playing this deck!

[lordarcanis]

StarOrc: Sorry, I missed Fastbond when I typed the list out the first time.  It has 59 cards.  Corrected.  As for the suggestions, Strip Mine is an obvious that I missed, that has now been added to the SB.  I like the idea of including Merchant Scroll.  I agree that two is a good number to start with: -1 Zuran Orb, -1 Island, +2 Merchant Scroll.  I'm not ready to give up Tinker as of yet, it is great at fetching a combo peice, and Titan acts as both a win condition and a mini-Armageddon (which is just awesome here). 

senpai: Living Wish is amazing, especially with the addition of Strip Mine.  I can fetch up either a win condition (B Ring), a clock (Kudzu), or disruption (Strip Mine).  I've played many decks with Wishes in them, but never have I been so excited about drawing one as with this deck.  As for the Kudzu's main deck, first, I get the Kudzu just about as often as I need it (which is not every game) with the Wishes, and have plenty of mana to play it.  The problem with including it main deck is that I would have to cut something, and I am already a little light on disruption and wouldn't want to remove any more combo peices.

I'll do some more testing, but listed above is the deck as I am currently playing it.  Glad you like it, and keep the comments coming!!  Has anyone else been testing this (or something similar)?  If so, what have you found?

[netherspirit]

I would go:

-2 Zuran Orb
-1 Sundering Titan

+1 Dark Heart of the Wood
+1 Crop Rotation
+1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds

Oboro is insane in TurboLand decks!

[wierdmtg13]

with so much ichorid running around people are packing leylines in the sb.  If an opponent throws down a leyline wut the plan of action? just go with the kudzu/titan beats or should there be some bounce/removal out of the board?

[lordarcanis]

Actually, Leyline doesn't hurt as much as you might think.  Sure, it shuts down the main combo in the deck, but the rest of my combo peices are still good without Crucible.  I can use a combo of Gush/Exploration (or Fastbond)/Horn of Greed to generate card advantage and win with either the Vinelasher Kudzu or the Tinker-Titan combo.  It works better than you might think.  Just remember: the good thing about this deck is that shutting off one or two combo peices doesn't hurt as much as it should, because these cards do things that are strong on their own.  (Except maybe Horn of Greed- without Crucibles or Exploration/Fastbond this card, well, sucks)
Nonetheless, I feel like I should include some bounce in the main, especially since I can fetch them with Merchant Scroll now.  I need to do a little more testing first, but I think I can safely remove Regrowth for bounce.  I was thinking Echoing Truth...

[meadbert]

Post board I would bring in at least one Sickening Dreams.  With Gush/Horns it is fairly easy to draw your whole deck and then play a lethal Sickening Dreams with Glacial Chasm out.

I recommend 0 Zuran Orb.  Glacial Chasm is so much better.  It is a huge hoser against so many decks, but especially Ichorid which cannot remove it.

Living Wish could be changed to Sylvan Scrying.  This would allow you to move Strip Mine and Glacial Chasm to the main deck.

Also, if you are already running Blue then Intuition can be really good.  You can use Intuition to find Strip Mine and Glacial Chasm.  You can also use Intuition to find Fastbond, Regrowth and some other card to get Fastbond out of the yard.

I have been trying to figure out how to make Turboland good now that Gush is unrestricted but I have not come up with anything good yet.

One problem is that since GAT runs both Gush and Fastbond, they are able to use your own Horns to combo out on you.  I wonder if Horns should be switched with some other card.
The problem is that if you drop Horns you become much more vulnerable to graveyard hate.

[MuzzonoAmi]

This just seems to be an updated TurboNevyn with aggro elements. Isn't Tendrils combo stricty superior as combo, GAT strictly superior as aggro-combo-control, and isn't The Mean Deck strictly superior as Combo-Control?

[Spacebalzz]

Isn't Tendrils combo stricty superior as combo, GAT strictly superior as aggro-combo-control, and isn't The Mean Deck strictly superior as Combo-Control?

You're right.  We should just disregard every other deck and idea other than those three, because they're so superior.  Discussing new ideas is just pointless.

Also, can you point me to the empirical evidence (i.e. post-6/20 tournament results) to back up your claim?  I'm really not seeing the evidence to back claims that these three decks are the "strictly superior" decks in the format.

Just some thoughts,

-Matt

[Grand Inquisitor]

You're right.  We should just disregard every other deck and idea other than those three, because they're so superior.  Discussing new ideas is just pointless.

Also, can you point me to the empirical evidence (i.e. post-6/20 tournament results) to back up your claim?  I'm really not seeing the evidence to back claims that these three decks are the "strictly superior" decks in the format.

Just some thoughts,

-Matt

Zing!  Btw, I agree that the evidence for what will be strong in the post-FS environment is extremely mixed right now.

As for this deck, I recommend trying trade routes.  It has great synergy with the overal engine, can generage infi mana with academy (which I believe should be in this list) and fastbond, and OMG it's blue, so it pitches to FoW.  As for what to do with infinite mana, I'm sure there's some creature that you could wish for that would end the game.

[StarOrc]

I started testing versions of this deck when I read this thread the first time. I've only been testing on Workstation for whatever thats worth, but this is what I've come up with. I tried a version with 4 Merchant Scroll and it just seemed slower and ran less smoothly than this.

Mana Base
1 Strip Mine
2 Underground Sea
4 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
4 Strand/Delta
1 Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

Disruption
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
1 Echoing Truth

Search Effects
4 Brainstorm
1 Vamp
1 Demonic
1 Mystical
1 Imp Seal

Combo
4 Horn of Greed
4 Gush
3 Explortion
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Zuran Orb
1 Trade Routes
1 Fastbond
1 Burning Wish

Extra Broken
1 Ancestral
1 Walk
1 Yawg Will

SB
Wish Targets
1 Braingeyser
1 Eye of Nowhere
1 Tendrills of Agony
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Tinker
10 Other Cards

I was thinking you could probably cut the Explorations down to 2 because your first tutor ussually goes for Fastbond anyway. How exactly do you go infinite with Chasm? Without being able to sac the lands? Or do you just not go infinite and hope your opponent doesn't Strip/Waste?

What do you guys think?

Star

[meadbert]

You use Strip Mine to destroy your own lands.  I generally run a full set of Wasteland, but since you only have Strip Mine you might have a more difficult time and thus Zuran Orb might make more sense.

[StarOrc]

The issue I ran into running Wastes was that I frequently wouldn't have two islands for Gush. Wastes would seem better in the deck before Gush was unrestricted, but you need to be able to frequently draw islands early.

Star

[hvndr3d y34r h3x]

hi,
I’ve been thinking that with gush, turbo land seems viable again, I’m glad to see some one working on it ! I did notice a few things I’d change to the original deck list. Primarily the lack of bounce and the horn of greed thing. Horn of greed is way to redundant with 4x gush. i also feel there are superior ansewers controll than just more controll.

-3 island
-1 tropical island
-3 horn of greed
-4 living wish  (i know its good but there are more optimal choices)
+3 mishra’s factory
+1 strip mine (running 3 crucible already, why not)
+4 compulsive research or thirst for knowledge (Preferable compulsive research )
+sol ring
+mana vault
-4daze
+3 xantid swarm
+1 rushing river
+1 crop rotation

As far as the 3rd color I might consider black.

For red:
-1 island
+1 volcanic
-1 exploration
+burning wish (with warrens and pyroclasm targets in board, scroll+gush is a high storm count)

for black:
-2 island
-1 volcanic
+2 underground sea
-1exploration or zuran orb (depending on the inclusion of thirst for knowledge. probably orb)
+1 demonic tutor
+1 vamp tutor

replace b-ring with cabal pit in board.


sb:
-1 academy ruins
-1 glacial chasm
+1 hurkyl’s recall
+1 echoing truth
-1 cephalid sage
+1 rebuild
-2 vinelasher
+1 hidden gibbons (might as well not make your board aggro an extirpate target)
+1 research//development

I know these changes seem extreme, but think its best to consider redundancy and more permanent answers to problems like lock pieces and superior control. It’s also necessary to consider your play ability in the face of things like extract, jester’s cap, chalice of the void, or a well timed bounce. this format is about optimaizing. If it seems like I cut a lot of island, it’s because I’ve play tested gush A LOT. 7 island + 5 search is enough, I think I left this list with 8.

[meadbert]

Xantid Swarm does not work out so well in Turboland.  Turboland's main strength is that it is nearly impossible to control.  Xantid swarm only helps to make an uncontrolable deck harder to control.

Turboland's weakness is it's lack of relative disruption and relatively slow clock compared to other combo decks.

Combo decks will combo out on you first.  Combo/Control decks can also race you.

For both matchups I would actually much rather have Duress than Xantid Swarm.

[diopter]

The following version of Turboland has been working out pretty well for me:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet

4 Exploration
1 Fastbond
1 Horn of Greed

4 Merchant Scroll
4 Gush
4 Street Wraith
4 Brainstorm
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Regrowth

4 Force of Will
3 Duress
2 Mana Drain
1 Echoing Truth

2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Cunning Wish

SB:
1 Brain Freeze
other stuff


My thoughts on Turboland are as follows:
-> I am sure that the correct number of Horns of Greed is 1 or 2. 3 is too much, its cost prevents you from doing really insane things with it before turn 3, and DT/VT can search for it. I also think that the correct number of Horns of Greed goes up the more Mana Drains you play.
-> I am sure that the correct number of Crucibles to play is 0.
-> 4 Street Wraith goes in just about all of my decks, but many people don't like it, so replace it with whatever you wish.
-> If you manage to set up a good Fastbond, then Wish into Freeze is going to be your route to victory. Otherwise I have found Meloku to be insane in situations where you haven't gone broken but you're sitting on say, an Exploration or two and Scroll/Gush/Regrowth in hand.
-> Haven't tested Library of Alexandria but it seems like it would belong.