Need help with Gifts

[Git-R-done]

Hey I am Eric.  I just started playing type 1 and i would like some help with my gifts deck if you guys would be so kind.

Land:
1x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
1x Library
1x Volcanic Island
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
4x Underground Sea

Artifacts:
1x Ruby
1x Pearl
1x Sapphire
1x Emerald
1x Jet
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal
1x Memory Jar
1x Mana Vault
1x Black Lotus
1x Tomod's Crypt
1x Sol Ring

Instants:
1x Dark Rit
1x Skeletal Scrying
1x Pyroblast
1x Rebuild
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Anscestral Recall
1x Mystical Tutor
2x Gifts Ungiven
4x Brainstorm
2x Mana Drain
1x Misdirection
4x Force of Will

Sorcery:
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Recoup
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Tinker
1x Time Twister
1x Time Walk
1x Burning Wish
1x Tendrils of Agony
2x Duress
3x Merchant Scroll

Side Board:
2x Red Elemental Blast
4x Remand
2x Pyroclasm
1x Trickbind
2x Stifle
2x Chalice of The Void
2x Echoing Truth

Thanks in Advance
Eric

[LotusHead]

Are you going to Burning Wish for PyroClasm only? or for pitched to Force Timewalk/Brainstorm?

Tinker for Lotus and that's it?

That's 2 maindeck cards that can be switched for something better. (even Street Wraith).

What is your meta like?

[Bubbydan]

Tinker for Lotus and that's it?

There is also a memory jar in this list. Cant say that it would be optimal in gifts, just that its there.
 
 I would drop the wasteland and add either another Island or volcanic island.I think they would help you out more than the wasteland.

 Dan

[Git-R-done]

I will put in another Volcanic Island instead of the Wasteland.  What would you guys suggest for SB cards to Wish for then

[Bubbydan]

  A couple of choices would be to put in a tendrils there or wheel of fourtune to draw seven ne cards and stock up your graveyard for y. will. the problem with that is your limited red sources.

  I would also take out remand. If your useing that to counter Mana Leak, Rune Snag or Delay would be better. If your using it for a free draw and to up your storm repeal would be better (tap mox, bounce back to your hand replay mox)

 Chalice works against this deck. You want to be able to play your 0 cc spells so that can be dropped from the Sideboard. You could always replace one with a Darksteel Collosus so you have another way to win after boarding.

  What is your meta like? Is it a lot of top teir decks (ichiroid, gifts, flash) or is it a bunch of random stuff?

Dan

[CranialX]

How bout replacing stripmine for Tolarian academy?

[Nydaeli]

3 Merchant Scroll and 2 Gifts really aren't enough.  4/3 would be better, and 4/4 is probably optimal.

[zeus-online]

That's a pretty weird list.....I'd probably start with this list:

Mana: (25) (Not counting dark ritual)
2 Underground sea
2 Volcanic island
5 Fetch
4 Island
1 Island OR Library of alexandria (I prefer using LoA)
1 Tolarian academy
7 Solomoxen
1 Mana crypt
1 Mana vault
1 Lotus petal

Disruption: (8)
4 Force of will
4 Mana drain

Draw/Search: (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Merchant scroll
4 Gifts ungiven
1 Ancestral recall
1 Mystical tutor
1 Vampiric tutor
1 Demonic tutor

Broken stuff: (2)
1 Yawgmoth's will
1 Time walk

That leaves 9 cards
2 of those should be bounce, i'd suggest Rebuild and chain of vapour
You need something to kill the opponent with...1 Tendrils is a must, and then there's the choice between Tinker/DSC, Tinker/Titan and Empty the warrens, with my preference being Empty the warrens...So that's 2-3 more slots.
Also, i'd suggest adding in 1 Dark ritual - It's been really good to me!
That leaves 3-4 slots open depending on what you chose for the back up kill...
Personally i like running Fact or fiction as an extra bomb card-drawer - Skeletal scrying is also very good, especially if there is alot of REB's in your meta.
Also i like running 2 MisD/1 Pyroblast as additional disruption.

Oh yeah, and there's always the option of 4x Street wraith to take into consideration, but i think ritual gifts is much better suited for wraith's.

/Zeus

[Git-R-done]

Ok guys sorry about the post delay but my meta is all tier.....As for t^{e SB cards i never thought of whell thanks for that.  I was going to MB a titan as an altenate tinker target so i don't think i wilo be putting DSC in.  Thanks though...  I never have problem finding my gifts but another Mercahnt scroll should help.  And i will put in a Tolarian that would defintly help.  Mabye i will put in another MisD thanks for all your help guys...}

[Meeee]

- I would recommend running the ETW over tinker collussus as it is much more powerfull and it is more difficult to disrupt as well as being 1 card instead of 2. 

- Dark Ritual is almost a must these days just because of the speed of the format and I could easily see 2, although I only use 1 mostly becasue of deck constraints. 

- I would recommend agaisnt Library of Alexandria mostly because the speed of the format is so fast these days you can't afford to spend even one turn to get LOA online.
 
- As for bounce I actually run 2-3 repeals and then a Rebuild usually depending on the meta I expect, the repeals are pure gold agaisnt fish and synergize nicely with ETW.

- I think mana drain's power has been dropping recently and I only run 3 now(I'm thinking of going to 2), the speed of the format and the fact that the average player now knows how to play around them has made them less useful.  Duress is a more powerful alternative because it comes online turn 1 and gives you better information.

Those are just some of my thoughts on gifts, I haven't played Type 1 for about 2 months but I have won several pieces of power with Gifts and have been playing it for almost as long as I've been playing Type 1.

[Korhil]

- I think mana drain's power has been dropping recently and I only run 3 now(I'm thinking of going to 2), the speed of the format and the fact that the average player now knows how to play around them has made them less useful.  Duress is a more powerful alternative because it comes online turn 1 and gives you better information.

I'd think of Mana Drain as a card to run either 4 or 0 of.
There are definately viable Gifts lists running 0 Mana Drains - Ritual Gifts.
But the typical reason to run Gifts over other Tendrills decks, like Long, is that you can play a control game.

If your reaching the point with your testing or consider your Meta bad for a combo/control gifts deck, then perhaps it's best to change decks and build from an outight combo baseline, like Long.
Having some Hybrid between controllish Gifts (which would include 4 Scrolls, 4 Drain, 4 FOW), and the more combo like Ritual Gifts (with 4 Ritual and 4 Duress), seems certain to fail - it's highly unlikely that the build will be optimal for it's purpose.

---Korhil

[Meeee]

I'd think of Mana Drain as a card to run either 4 or 0 of.
There are definately viable Gifts lists running 0 Mana Drains - Ritual Gifts.
But the typical reason to run Gifts over other Tendrills decks, like Long, is that you can play a control game.

I disagree Gifts can still be a strong control deck with 3 Drains and even 2.  Drains have to be played around or its more then likely the opponent will lose to drain on a 3 or more mana spellif there not prepared for it, Having 3 means that you will usually draw only 1 which is all you usually want 2 is just too clunky, and the deck runs 4 Scroll which makes the inclusion of Drain that much more powerful if you reach the midgame (turn 4ish).  Drains can also be supplemented with Duress which gives you valuable information on which spells have to be countered etc…

[CranialX]

Here's my opinion on this.

The power of gifts is in the blue cards such as drains, merchant scroll.
If you remove or put less than 4 drains gifts looses its controlling ability and mana acceleration.

Duress cant save you from meddling mage, you cant duress it but mana drain can counter it.

Gifts has the ability to have control, solution, combo.
That's why its a strong deck.

I still play tinker colossus, since most of the time you don't get to draw empty the warren or have him in time to save you.
Its always best to have other cards to rely on.

Library could help a lot in this deck. The weak point of gifts is that it doesn't have that much card draw so LOA helps.

I only run 2 merchant scroll in my gifts since i need the two extra slot for tinker colossus.
But its a pain when you get to draw or see colossus in your opening hand.
Having 3 winning condition is better than two. 

just my 2cents

[Meeee]

Here is the version of gifts I played about a month before FS became legal (currently working on a post FS build):

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm
1 Dark Ritual
4 Force Of Will
4 Gifts Ungiven
3 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Rebuild
3 Repeal
1 Vampiric Tutor

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Merchant Scroll
1 Recoup
1 Tendrils Of Agony
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Empty the Warrens

Basic Lands
2 Island

Basic Snow Lands
1 Snow-covered Island

Lands
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
Varies

Here's my opinion on this.

The power of gifts is in the blue cards such as drains, merchant scroll.
If you remove or put less than 4 drains gifts looses its controlling ability and mana acceleration.

Duress cant save you from meddling mage, you cant duress it but mana drain can counter it.

Gifts has the ability to have control, solution, combo.
That's why its a strong deck.

I still play tinker colossus, since most of the time you don't get to draw empty the warren or have him in time to save you.
Its always best to have other cards to rely on.

Library could help a lot in this deck. The weak point of gifts is that it doesn't have that much card draw so LOA helps.

I only run 2 merchant scroll in my gifts since i need the two extra slot for tinker colossus.
But its a pain when you get to draw or see colossus in your opening hand.
Having 3 winning condition is better than two. 

just my 2cents

Meddling Mage cannot be duressed true, but at the same time if your facing Meddling Mage then Mana Drain is by far your worst card.  I always board out all my drains against Fish and board in some combination of more ETW's, Pyrocalsm, REB's, or FTK's depending on what is in my board at the time.  In addition Repeal is an excellent card in the Fish match and bounces Meddling Mage quite well.  While until a couple of month's ago I was playing Tinker/DSC and I still think it has merits (biggest strength is the ability to run Sunder Titan in the board) I have switched over to ETW for it's ability to enhance Fish and Stax while not being very difficult to enable 8 or so Goblins.

Duress is much more valuable against any variety of Long just because they can go off very reliably by turn 2 and possibly Flash although I haven't tested agaisnt them.  But if Pact of Negation becomes more popular then Duress might become even better since Duress can't be Pacted very easily.

Gifts can be built to be more control then combo in which case Library is better, but I prefer a more combo oriented version not as much as ritual gifts but still pushing the speed of the deck while marinating most of it's control power.

I could not see myself running just 2 Scrolls it's to powerful as a way to find Ancestral, Gifts, or Permission.  It can also be put into Gifts piles as an Ancestral without having to waste your Ancestral (obviously you can do this with just 2) but against control I often find myself string Gifts and Scrolls together to overwhelm there disruption, and then cast my will or just storm out with enough cards.

As far as running 3 win conditions instead of 2 I think that is mostly unnecessary with the presence of Street Wraith, which if it can be successfully incorporated into gifts provides an alternate win condition and might only require Tendrils to one main now
.

[zeus-online]

Personally i like mana drain better then FoW against fish...FoW really isn't all that good against fish.

Mana drain is good because it allows the deck to play control, which is almost impossible without drain...you can't 2 for 1 threats for long without loosing in the end.
Mana drain is also very potent against shop decks, although it can be a bit slow against combo...but without it you're left with FoW and racing...And i really don't think racing is a good strategy against a faster deck 

/Zeus

[Git-R-done]

Here is the new decklist

Land: 13   
2x Volcanic Island
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
2x Underground Sea
1x Library of Alexandria
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Flooded Strand

Sorcery: 13
4x Merchant Scroll
2x Duress
1x Recoup
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Yawgmoth’s Will
1x Time Walk
1x Burning Wish
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Demonic Tutor

Instants: 23
4x Force of Will
4x Force of Will
3x Mana Drain
2x Gifts Ungiven
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Skeletal Scrying
1x Misdirection
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Rebuild
1x Dark Ritual
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Pyroblast

Artifacts: 11
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Lotus Petal
1x Mana Crypt
1x Tormod’s Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault

Side Board:15
1x Tendrils of Agony
2x Echoing Truth
3x Stifle
1x Trickbind
1x Shattering Spree
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroclasm
2x Remand
1x Wheel of Fortune

[Meeee]

Personally i like mana drain better then FoW against fish...FoW really isn't all that good against fish.

Mana drain is good because it allows the deck to play control, which is almost impossible without drain...you can't 2 for 1 threats for long without loosing in the end.
Mana drain is also very potent against shop decks, although it can be a bit slow against combo...but without it you're left with FoW and racing...And i really don't think racing is a good strategy against a faster deck 

/Zeus

I think the reason I prefer FOW to Drain is I use FOW to force through Gifts, and quick Ancestrals which easily allows you to recover any disadvantage from pitching a card to FOW.  After board I bring in predominatly red cards like ETW, REB and Clasm in which case drain is useless since I don't actually care about any of Fish's threat except maybe null rod and sometimes chailce, but that is what bounce is for and it answers Chalice and Rod more effiecently then Drain which is to slow to stop either of those often.

When playing agaisnt fish, I've found that good players will often let you counter there threats like Meddling Mage and Null Rod so long as they have 1-2 more threats and will save there Forces for your spells, which is were Drain is very clunky since it is hard to cast a Threat and have Drain mana up against a deck with Wastelands Chalice and Rods.

As far as shop decks go, I'll give you Drain is your single best card against them, but Shop is not to prevelant where I live and it usually doesn't put up a large showing to most major events (at least not in comparision to Fish, Combo, and Gifts).

[zeus-online]

All i ever sideboard in against fish is massacre and/or EtW... I find that trying to force everything through early on lets you walk right into every piece of disruption fish have.. (Daze, stifle etc.)...I usually just sit there and take damage while improving my position for atleast 3 turns (Unless i get the nutz ofcourse, but you can't really count on that happening)

That said, mana drain isn't exactly hot against fish, but i much prefer it over FoW against fish.

Mana drain really shines in the control and stax match-up, but i really don't think it's nearly as bad as people say it is against combo....with 4 merchant scrolls and 4 fow's you are likely to make it to UU....in which case mana drain becomes a wall and a significant threat to their gameplan.

/Zeus

[Meeee]

We'll looks like Gifts is dead  , they finally gave gifts axe.  The deck will probaly have to morph into something Long esque with only 1 gifts or disappear altogether, seeing how fast the other combo decks are now being forced to tutor for you 1 gifts to setup the win seems to slow.  Oh we'll looks like it's time ot find a new deck, Flash looks promising.

[netherspirit]

Or you could just replace the second copy of Gifts Ungiven with another tutor such as Imperial Seal so that you can tutor it up.