Black Vise MUD

[MafiaKingpin]

With the unrestriction of Black Vise I have wanted to add that card into Stax but I've had a large problem doing it in a 5-Color Version.  This is my own tweaking to Pablo Ambrojo's deck from Catalan Vintage League (so it might look familiar to some).

Maindeck:

4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Wasteland

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Triskelion
1 Sundering Titan
1 Duplicant

4 Black Vise
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
1 Trinisphere
3 Orb of Dreams
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Powder Keg
1 Memory Jar
 
Sideboard:
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Razormane Masticore
3 Jester's Cap
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pithing Needle

And also in my playtesting I have found that in order to do well against decks like Grow-A-Tog or Flash you need to have disruption on turn 1 which is hard to get sometimes without having a turn 1 Workshop.  So I thought about taking all the color away from the deck and just playing with acceleration from lands such as Ancient Tomb and City of Traitors.  With those cards in the deck I now have 9 of 60 cards that will produce me at least 2 mana on my first turn.  This will then allow me to get out a disruption piece such as Resistor, Trini, Orb, Orb, or Tanglewire.  Not to mention the acceleration that will come from the Power, Crypt, and Sol Ring.  I believe that is will give me better odds to having enough mana to put a lock piece down early.  The only decks that really don't need mana is Ichorid, that is when Powder Keg is key, along with post board Needles and Leylines. 

Flash is a matchup that I still worry about but it seems that 3 Orbs, 2 Kegs, and 3 Factories could put me able to set up fast enough.

I want to see first turns that look like: Workshop, Vise, Sphere, GO.  Vise puts such a clock on the game when have lock pieces down and your opponent has little ability to react to them.

I was wondering what suggestions people may have to the deck besides to just play 5 Color Stax.  I think that in the current environment there will be a shift to combo decks such as GWS Long to beat GAT.  It seems like in the current environment if you can just lock your opponent down before they get going that you can take full advantage of Vise.  Do you think that this deck could put up a good enough showing to T8 a larger event or is it underpowered to its 5C cousin?

[Thegreatgonzo]

Quote : "is it underpowered to its 5C cousin?" (End quote)

No, it's just another deck, and another philosophy. 5C stax have "Bombs" (tutors, Balance, Tinker, Ancestral,...) and more sideboard options (but your sideboard looks solid), where monobrown stax have a healthier manabase, more locks, and Chalice @ 1 (yes, it's That huge)
Just have faith in your deck, Monobrown stax is nothing to laugh at.

Now let's get serious : Black vise is bad. No, really, you don't need it (well, that's my point of view, feel free to disagree). Karn is a kill condition on its own, just add a second one, everything will go just fine. You say you are worried about the consistency of a first turn lock, and you're wise to be worried about that. As Vroman once wrote : you should consider mulliganing every hand that don't say first turn welder or first turn lock. (not sure of the exact wording). So maybe you should turn those Black vises into Serum powders. Stax is a good deck for this card : it needs a strong starting hand, and doesn't rely on singletons. In the worst case, it can even power a factory, or become a 3/3 body with Karn.

Also, without tinker or welder, don't you sometimes sit with a Titan in your and and no way to put it into play? If the answer is yes, then get rid of it.

The great Gonzo

[vroman]

As Vroman once wrote : you should consider mulliganing every hand that don't say first turn welder or first turn lock. (not sure of the exact wording).

what I actually said was "Black Vise is completely irrelevent in type 1, and cant possibly be better than 4 current slots in any deck in any archetype"
or something to that effect.

[limitedwhole]

Hey Vroman.  My friend Troy has a Vise deck.  I can't spoil it for you but it doesn't play workshop.  Workshop isn't that good as the only card that good in shop is sphere.  He plays

Sphere+Trini
Vise
Pillar
Ankh
Pith
Shaman
Tinkerer
Atog
Great Furance
Raze
WAstes/Strip
Simian
Fast artifact mana for munchie munch!

It's pretty powerful.  I keep telling him to play 3 pithing needle main, but he won't do it.  Maybe this will help for your quest to abuse Vise.  Raise Volcano in the sideboard is pretty powerful.

Think of it like a workshop deck without all the expensive cards.  It deals out damage fast and can attack the mana base hard.  It also can attack basic islands.

It empties its hand fast, so ensnaring bridge can be brought in from the sideboard for aggro.  When you draw, you have just enough cards to let an atog slip under.  

Were still wondering whether magus of the moon belongs in this deck.  Maybe 3?