Best Extirpate Target vs. Ichorid

[o uncola o]

I know that Ichorid currently has many different builds floating around and that Extirpate, while still regarded has a quality card, has lost much of the initial hype that it had previously garnered as a "format breaking" card.  However, several targets in the ichorid build seem to be quite vulnerable to a well placed and timed extirpate which significantly cripples and slows down the deck.  What is the best card to hit (assuming all are in the yard and therefore susceptible?  Dread Return? Or, should the the Bridge From Below go first?  Any other targets that have a similar impact?

[zulander]

Depends on what you're playing. If you're playing fish and have korlis in play sac korlis to get the bridges and extirpate the dread. Otherwise if you're combo I think I'd go with bridge. I'd like to note though, unless you have 2 extirpates you'll most likely die to the card you didn't choose almost every single time.

[Tin_Mox5831]

Actually, Leyline Of The Void makes Children Of Korlis a non-factor quite often. The decision tree on this play is quite complex, especially if all the cards are fair game.

A) If there are no Leylines on their board and the gamestate is normal, I take Bridge From Below.

B) If there are no Leylines and I have a Bridge trump (i.e. Children), I'd usually name Cabal Therapy to deny them information.

C) If there are Leylines and their guys are online, I take Bridge From Below.

D) If they're leaning on a single dredger in the early game, I take it.

E) If I've seen all the combo pieces and can't fight the Therapies, I take Dread Return in their upkeep after all the dredges.

F) At this point, wouldn't it be easier to just Crypt them?  (J/K, I'm a bit fatigued by now.)

Just my thoughts.

Later,
Dave

[pyr0ma5ta]

The correct place for your Extirpates to be against Ichorid is in your sideboard.  I'd rather have 4 chocolate chip cookies in my deck than 4 Extirpates if I'm playing against Ichorid.  The correct hate cards are, in order: Leyline of the Void, Yixlid Jailer, Planar Void, Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt.

[Vegeta2711]

If someone has somehow managed to slip Extirpate into your deck without knowing, the best way to make up for this terrible disadvantage is to hit Bridge from Below or wait until you can waste a Bazaar and hit that. You're pretty well screwed against anything else you target anyway.

[GrandpaBelcher]

The correct place for your Extirpates to be against Ichorid is in your sideboard.  I'd rather have 4 chocolate chip cookies in my deck than 4 Extirpates if I'm playing against Ichorid.

I'd like to note though, unless you have 2 extirpates you'll most likely die to the card you didn't choose almost every single time.

That's pretty much been my experience as well.  Some builds of Ichorid with mana can be slowed with one Extirpate.  Manaless Ichorid generally shrugs off the first one and sometimes the second one too.  There are too many targets in Ichorid for Extirpate to even make much of a difference outside of ideal situations like you hit their one dredger and they can't dig to anything relevant, or you Stifle then Waste then Extirpate their Bazaars, and I've lost in that last case as well.

If you can back up your Extirpate with something a little bit bigger down the road like a Tormod's Crypt or a midgame Planar Void or something, it helps to know what version your opponent is playing.  Bridge from Below is correct in the Flame Kin Zealot builds (though you'll still have to deal with Ichorids and possibly a Dread Returned Troll), while Dread Return is generally a little bit better against Sutured Ghoul (though you'll still have to figure out a way around Bridge Zombies and, again, Ichorids).  If you have some confidence in the rest of your hate, Cabal Therapy is a good target too, since the rest of your hate stays relevant (unless they Chalice for 0 against Tormod's Crypt).

It's rough.  Really rough.  Your best bet is to hit them early and hit them often because once they get rolling it's too late.

[zulander]

It seems the best way to hate against ichorid if you cant get an encantment to stick is to play goblins and get 3 sharpshooters into play. But that's a horrible way.

[wethepeople]

The best way to beat Ichorid is run two different forms of hate, so they have to board in two different kinds of removal. For example, playing Yixlid Jailer (a creature) and Leyline of the Void (an enchantment) will force your opponent to board in both Emerald Charms, and Contagion. This will cause them to board out a large quantity of their deck, furthermore causing them to essentially cripple their own deck.

I have brought in Leyline game two, when my opponent has been in the position where they simply want to see what I bring in, and then game three, when they bring in full forces of enchantment removal (Emerald Charm, Reverent Silence), I have then brought in Yixlid Jailer to their surprise, which they have not at all prepared for.

This however forces you to dedicate more slots to this matchup, but will of course improve the probability of you winning. I have faced the technique before, and I myself can easily say that it was the overall most-effective.

The entire question of this thread does not seem necessary to me, because using Extirpate to fight Ichorid will rarely work in your favor, because you are much better off playing one of the many other forms of hate mentioned before.

[o uncola o]

The best way to beat Ichorid is run two different forms of hate, so they have to board in two different kinds of removal. For example, playing Yixlid Jailer (a creature) and Leyline of the Void (an enchantment) will force your opponent to board in both Emerald Charms, and Contagion. This will cause them to board out a large quantity of their deck, furthermore causing them to essentially cripple their own deck.

I have brought in Leyline game two, when my opponent has been in the position where they simply want to see what I bring in, and then game three, when they bring in full forces of enchantment removal (Emerald Charm, Reverent Silence), I have then brought in Yixlid Jailer to their surprise, which they have not at all prepared for.

This however forces you to dedicate more slots to this matchup, but will of course improve the probability of you winning. I have faced the technique before, and I myself can easily say that it was the overall most-effective.

The entire question of this thread does not seem necessary to me, because using Extirpate to fight Ichorid will rarely work in your favor, because you are much better off playing one of the many other forms of hate mentioned before.

I run leyline maindeck because I believe it to be generally disruptive to many different decks reliant upon or aided by their graveyards.  I was just curious to see whether people believed that extirpate (even as a one-of) was efficient at shutting down or substantially crippling the ichorid plan.  The general sentiment seems to be that ichorid can play through a single extirpate.  I appreciate all of the advice, it has been really helpful.  I think that I am going to go with the jailers main as well in lieu of the extirpates not only for their effectiveness against ichorid but because of the redundancy or hating the 'yard.  Thanks again.

[pyr0ma5ta]

The problem with Jailer is that he's only good against Ichorid.  Against just about anything else he's a 2/1 vanilla creature.  If you have to run a maindeck creature that's generally good against the yard and hates on Ichorid, I recommend Withered Wretch.

[andrewpate]

I would tend to agree with pyr0ma5ta on this point.  Yixlid Jailer was much better last month when it also hosed Flashback against Gifts.  If Recoup makes a comeback, perhaps in some kind of Intuition-based Will deck or elsewhere, Jailer might get moved back into the mandeck, but I think I would leave it in the sideboard right now even in U/B or U/B/w Fish, the decks in which it best fits.  That said, Jailer remains second only to Leyline of the Void in terms of hosing Ichorid; if you expect a ton of that deck in your meta, U/B Fish with maindeck Jailers is one of the few decks with a sporting chance game 1.

As for the best Extirpate target, I'd say it'd be your own Extirpates, and the best time to play it is before the tournament.