Mishra's Laboratory

[ErkBek]

Mishra's Laboratory 3
Artifact
Players my play only 1 spell per turn.

Could a card like this save stax?

[Anusien]

Too cheap at .  Rule of Law and Arcane Laboratory are both 2C.  I would suggest 4 probably.

[ErkBek]

Too cheap at .  Rule of Law and Arcane Laboratory are both 2C.  I would suggest 4 probably.

but at 4 it wouldn't do anything

[andrewpate]

Does Rule of Law cost 2C?  It's possible that it might cost 3 and they wanted it to be white, if you get what I'm saying.  It's not necessarily too undercosted in that regard.

However, I do think that it's very out of flavor for, say, black to get this kind of rule-setting effect for the same CMC as white gets it.  Artifacts can give a color an ability that it doesn't normally have, but they usually only give it in a form at least as bad as the worst color that actually does get the ability.  For example, Disrupting Scepter gives discard but in a form overcosted even compared to blue, the discard color with the weakest access.

In other words, rules-setting artifacts can't be all that good.  And since Arcane Lab/Rule of Law is pretty good as-is, it seems quite likely that it really DOES cost 2C, and even that is aggressive costing.  I would say that this is too strong while acknowledging that it's not really relevant at 4.  Probably not a good design in its current form.

[Anusien]

Too cheap at .  Rule of Law and Arcane Laboratory are both 2C.  I would suggest 4 probably.

but at 4 it wouldn't do anything

It might not be good at , but that has nothing to do with whether it is fair/right at that cost.

[Nydaeli]

How about "Players may play only two spells per turn." ?  It's worse than Rule of Law but still accomplishes most of its function.

[ErkBek]

How about "Players may play only two spells per turn." ?  It's worse than Rule of Law but still accomplishes most of its function.

Why not just 1 per turn?

The only reason Arcane Lab sees any play at all is that it is an enchantment. In vintage, being an artifact is both a drawback and an advantage at the same time. The decks that this card would be most effective against play global artifact bounce. Against storm combo, this would give stax another relevant lock piece that's also useful on the play vs. pretty much the entire format. However, unlike Trinisphere it doesn't stop you from playing spells, it just keeps you from going broken.

[Anusien]

I think you are thinking of this card too much as, "I want to make this card to fit into this deck."  Remember that other things can do this too.  Dark Ritual, this is not the kind of play that black should be able to make.  Yes, artifacts get rule-making cards and bleed into White, but this is strictly cheaper than its comparable effect.  The fact that Arcane Lab was reprinted as Rule of Law at the same cost suggests that 2C is the right cost.  Can you give any reasons why this should still cost besides that being an artifact is a drawback in Vintage?

[ErkBek]

I think you are thinking of this card too much as, "I want to make this card to fit into this deck."  Remember that other things can do this too.  Dark Ritual, this is not the kind of play that black should be able to make.  Yes, artifacts get rule-making cards and bleed into White, but this is strictly cheaper than its comparable effect.  The fact that Arcane Lab was reprinted as Rule of Law at the same cost suggests that 2C is the right cost.  Can you give any reasons why this should still cost besides that being an artifact is a drawback in Vintage?

Being an artifact is a drawback in Vintage, simple as that. The only way to deal with enchantments in vintage are

Chain of Vapor
Echoing Truth
Rushing River

A deck probably plays 1 of these betweens the main and sideboard. Compared to

Chain of Vapor
Echoing Truth
Rushing River
Hurkyl's Recall
Rebuild
Oxidize
Shattering spree
Rack and Ruin
Ancient Grude / Artifact mutation

So, other than being an artifact, I've got no other reasons.

[andrewpate]

I disagree with this line of reasoning on two main grounds:

1. You fail to account for Mishra's Workshop.  If, somehow, you could make an enchantment that costed and printed it along with this, I think that this would see more play because there's no 4-of land that lets you play turn 1 enchantments that cost 3 mana.

2. Being an artifact is not the same kind of drawback in formats other than Vintage.  This card would be a strong sideboard option in Standard against Dragonstorm, for example, which cannot usually combo out before turn 4 anyway.  Allowing a Standard monoblack control deck to play Rule of Law for the same cmc as a white deck seems off to me.

[ErkBek]

So are you guys saying this card is too good for vintage because of Shop?

I do see the problems with this as a hoser in other formats.....I didn't know that we every considered them here.

[Anusien]

I do see the problems with this as a hoser in other formats.....I didn't know that we every considered them here.

We try to consider all of Magic.  As best as possible, we're trying to come up with cards (and a set) on the same quality level and design standards as Wizards.  We don't consider only Vintage.  More than that, it is extremely poor to try and create cards to fit decks.

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