Phyrexian Dreadnought errata being removed.

[diopter]

Mark Gottlieb announces that the power-level errata on Phyrexian Dreadnought is being removed.

Does this have implications for Vintage Magic? Discuss!

[policehq]

Well, a combo-aggro/control deck using Phyrexian Dreadnought can now use Null Rod as disruption, but that seems largely irrelevant. Stifles and Trickbinds do serve double-duty as disruption and combo pieces, however.

EDIT: Additionally, Goblin Welder is not such a nightmare for any Phyrexian Dreadnought deck as he once was.

-hq

[Akuma]

I think this is a great move by WotC. At first glance, it doesn't seem to mean much for Vintage. But who knows, maybe the fact that "stifle" effects can be part of the combo will make the deck playable. It sure makes the combo more resilient. Maybe this can be used in Legacy...

Either way, this is great, the replacement effect was retarded.

[zeus-online]

This is interesting, but hardly broken...This might be good for mono blue masknought (Now without masks and with more disruption!)....Although it will hardly be a Tier 1 deck....And it will not be able to utilize chalice aswell as it used to....

/Zeus

[slyfer]

Is it viable a combo with flash??
flash -> protean hulk -> 4 dreadnought + 1 creature that gives haste to all (cc <6 fetchable with hulk) , sac 2 naught for the other 2 --> attack with trample for 28 damage

[Harlequin]

I think the more important question is: Will they be doing this to all the Mirrage/Tempest Erra cards.  Namely: Mox Diamond.

We've all heard the arguement that cards like Dreadnaught and Mox Diamond were printed under differant rules, and thus the errata was a ~Rules~ update, not a power level errata........ this seems to dirrectly contradict that statement.  So, yeah, should we be expecting a new "use it now" lotus petal?

[Jo84]

Is it viable a combo with flash??
flash -> protean hulk -> 4 dreadnought + 1 creature that gives haste to all (cc <6 fetchable with hulk) , sac 2 naught for the other 2 --> attack with trample for 28 damage

If Flame-Kin Zealot would cost 2 mana instead of 4 it would be a very good alternative to the Sliver Kill, but I don´t see any way to win with Dreadnought Flash in the same turn that Hulk hits the graveyard.

[Methuselahn]

Is it viable a combo with flash??
flash -> protean hulk -> 4 dreadnought + 1 creature that gives haste to all (cc <6 fetchable with hulk) , sac 2 naught for the other 2 --> attack with trample for 28 damage

You still have to deal with four triggers.


Yay for un-errata!

[pyr0ma5ta]

Is it viable a combo with flash??
flash -> protean hulk -> 4 dreadnought + 1 creature that gives haste to all (cc <6 fetchable with hulk) , sac 2 naught for the other 2 --> attack with trample for 28 damage

You still have to deal with four triggers.


Yay for un-errata!

You could do it with 4 dreadnoughts, A, B, C, and D.  Sacrifice A to B, and C to D.  A and C are already gone, so they don't need to be paid for.  Since then you have B and D in play, you now have 24 points of attacking, trampling damage.  All we need is a way to give 2 creatures haste. 

[A.-1.]

I checked Gatherer and unless I missed one there aren't any 0, 1, or 2 CC creatures that can give the two Dreadnoughts haste. You would need Concordant Crossroads or Need for Speed already in play when playing Flash which is horrible.

[Nehptis]

Why kill with creatures that can be more easily bounced or even destroyed with cards like Oxidize (Phy Dread) when you can win with creatures that can only be dealt with by bounce like Echoing truth (Slivers)?

The errata decisions though were good, as a whole.

[Akuma]

I think the more important question is: Will they be doing this to all the Mirrage/Tempest Erra cards.  Namely: Mox Diamond.

Mox Diamond would not be bad, the problem would be Lotus Vale 

I will leave it up to WotC to decide. Either way, it will be like they are printing new cards or bringing back old favorites. Most will not make a difference or will be perfectly acceptable (ie. Mox Diamond = Lotus Petal). The only one I can think of that represents a huge difference would be Lotus Vale. Are there any others?

[Mr. Nightmare]

Scorched Ruins.

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

Yeah, Ruins and Lotus Vale would be a problem (and an un-errataed Thawing Glaciers would possibly be nice for Legacy). Lake of the Dead would also turn into an interesting Dark Ritual variant (B, sacrifice a Swamp: add BBBB to your mana pool). These cards fall into a very different part of the spectrum from Dreadnought, though, if I remember correctly. Those cards turned broken (or rather would turn broken) only because of later rules-changes. Their errata are NOT power-errata per se, but errata to keep the cards functioning as they were intended to by the rules they were printed under. Dreadnought, though, works exactly the same under either set of rules considering its printed text and was only changed to get around Pandemonium-abusal afaik.

[Fred The Ev]

Oh my goodness I am so excited about this errata! Mask nought here I come!

[beder]

Event if no longer experimented in T1 (i was T1 experimented in 1996 before quiting at that time and starting again recently, after ~10 years off), I think a mask deck could become quite efficent, even against best T1 decks right now.

During the last 4 weeks, i have been testing on MWS a deck that I find pretty fun, combo-control, that I called "Utah Jazz", based on 2 cards : Dreadnought and Voidmage Apprentice.
It worked really pretty well. And now that i can add an auxiliary way to put the dreadnought on board, i think it can really become huge.
I wrote something about this deck, its build and was asking for ideas in order to improve it in the "Vintage Improvement Forum".
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=33645.0

I think it is worth a try...

[Yare]

My latest article, dealing with this issue, can be found here:

A Response to Mr. Gottlieb

[LotusHead]

Changing cards to have keywords where one previously did not exist is fine, in principle, because nothing is really being changed. But what if these new keywords create a functional change, such as with a card like Eron the Relentless? The change for Eron was that he went from having “Eron the Relentless can attack the turn it comes into play on your side” to “Haste.” What is the difference? Eron the Relentless can now use Fire Whip (another card that has been errataed, by the way) on the turn he comes into play because he can use abilities that use the tap symbol, something never stated on his original incarnation. The phrase “unaffected by summoning sickness” did not come into being until Mirage was released, a year or so after the release of Homelands, Eron’s original expansion. However, that does not excuse the fact that Eron is not entitled to use tap abilities the turn he comes into play. Is this a big deal? No, probably not. However, this is the sort of thing one needs to be aware of when thinking about these kinds of issues.

Regenerating has always been a sickness proof ability.

He had haste.

Is it not too much to suggest that he has haste?

Instil Energy, however, give broken bonuses to your dudes in play. That would have been a better example.