Dark Confidant in GAT

[SyntheticAngel]

Hello my name is Brennen, and I would like to discuss the incoporation of Dark Confidant in GAT.

The upsides:

-Card advantage.
-He swings for two.
-He adds a counter to Dryad.

Downsides:

-Taking five off Gush, Force of Will, or Misdirection.

My current GAT list:

1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby

3x Underground Sea
3x Tropical Island
1x Volcanic Island
3x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
1x Island

1x Psychatog
4x Quirion Dryad
3x Dark Confidant

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Echoing Truth
4x Merchant Scroll
1x Cunning Wish
4x Gush
1x Fastbond
1x Yawgmoth's Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
2x Misdirection
2x Mana Drain
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
3x Duress
2x Opt

Sideboard:

2x Red Elemental Blast
1x Berserk
2x Yixlid Jailer
1x Rushing River
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Sulfur Elemental
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Fire/Ice
2x Threads of Disloyalty

First off is Bob good enough to deal with taking five damage occasionally?
What should be changed about the sideboard?

I haven't had a chance to play this deck, but it is a deck I am considering for a Time Walk tourney we are having. Right now it is between this and Ichorid so it's really just a tough call. Any suggestions and input will be appreciated.

Brennen

[pyr0ma5ta]

I was working on a GAT variant before Gush became unrestricted, and it had 4 Bobs alongside 4 Dryads.  I found that he was very good with the incremental damage game plan, but he does do quite a lot of damage to his controller.  Because he's best on turn 1 and acts as a draw spell that prefers to flip Duress than Misd, I would run the 4 gush version with the following changes from your list:

+1 Lotus Petal
+1 Duress
+1 Bob
-1 Cunning wish
-2 Misdirection

[The Atog Lord]

I don't understand how you can be playing Dark Confidant and not Library of Alexandria. That would be like including Brainstorm in your deck, but not playing Ancestral Recall. Playing Bob over Library is like playing Street Wraith as your 61st card.

Bob is making you play with a lot of off-color Moxes which defeats one of the most important reasons to play GAT. Bob will also kill you, with Misdirection, Force, and Gush. Sure, Bob draws cards; but that's something GAT already does very, very well.

[Purple Hat]

also on the short list of things gat already does very very well:

dealing LOTS of damage to itself.  seriously.  if you're going off with this deck, er...ever, expect to have multiple turns in any tournament in which you're doing 10-15 dmg to yourself.  you really don't want to be starting those turns down 5 life cus you just topdecked the best 4 of in your deck off confidant.  if you're running around with less than 4-5 cards in your hand in this deck things are going pretty badly for you and you're gonna need every life point you can get.  confidant is a huge liability now that we have gush.  also you're only playing 18 mana sources.  that, conbined with high cmc cards means you're gonna have a much higher average mana cost than most decks that run bob.

[SyntheticAngel]

Cutting the Misdirection might be ok, but if I cut MisD I would probaly toss in Daze. I do however see everyone's points about how you always have cards in hand. I was playing last night and ended the game with 12 cards in hand without Bob I just wanted to consider him, and I will continue to test him. Thanks for your advice.

[Duncan]

Just like PurpleHat mentioned, I think bob takes away too much of your life total. Chaining gushes with fastbond out will be less effective with less life points.

Next to that, Bob has to compete with dryad and merchant scroll for the 2cc drop. Early dryad is more agressive, while early scrolls are good to set up a lethal turn. Bob is a slower alternative and because of the nature of the deck and todays meta, I believe it is not at its place in GAT.

Nevertheless, it is always good to see people tryinf to innovate and share their ideas!

Good luck at your tournament!

Duncan

[Korhil]

Sure, Bob draws cards; but that's something GAT already does very, very well.

I never find GAT to be short of card drawing.
Adding Bob would also lower your blue count, something that many GAT players have been trying to increase as much as possible (Brain Freeze over 4th Dryad etc).

I don't understand how you can be playing Dark Confidant and not Library of Alexandria.

I know not everyone else likes LOA, but I find it to be very solid in GAT.

The upsides:

-Card advantage.
-He swings for two.
-He adds a counter to Dryad.

Swings for two seems to be the only thing Bob does better than other options. Adding a counter is redundant, anything else you run will also be a non-green spell too. I'd argue that his Card advantage comes too slowly - GAT is weaker in the early game where it needs to have a big grip of counters so it can reach the mid game vs decks like Flash. This is why spells like Opt are good in GAT - fast cycling.

I just don't think Bob really belongs in GAT for these reasons, and the already mentioned life loss.

---Korhil

[Xman]

I know most of it has already been said, but this is not the first time someone thought to put COnfidant into the deck.  If I may point out, a bunch of people have dropped street wraith due to the life lost of ONE cycle can be considered to steep in a deck that can easily take 10 or more off  of your own life during a game.  Let alone if your opponent is doing anything.

You can add this to yet another persons bad idea of improving a good deck.  But if you are playing me, then by all means, please, play a card that both makes your deck slower & easier to kill at the same time.

[Marek]

I had actually tested this when the new banned/restricted list came out and and ended up having to cut misdirection from my list.  I agree 100% with Rich on this one and after testing, this deck doesnt need any more card draw, the deck does so very well already.  Confidant flips can randomly lose you games, and when you combo out with gushbond a lot of times that 5 life you lost off the gush/FoW/Misdirection flip can cost you the game.  Dark confidant also doesnt pitch to FoW or Misdirection.

[SyntheticAngel]

I know most of it has already been said, but this is not the first time someone thought to put COnfidant into the deck.  If I may point out, a bunch of people have dropped street wraith due to the life lost of ONE cycle can be considered to steep in a deck that can easily take 10 or more off  of your own life during a game.  Let alone if your opponent is doing anything.

You can add this to yet another persons bad idea of improving a good deck.  But if you are playing me, then by all means, please, play a card that both makes your deck slower & easier to kill at the same time.

You don't have to be such a dick it was just a suggestion and I would gladly play Confidant against you.

[The Atog Lord]

Guys, let's try to keep the discussion in this thread friendly.

-- TAL

[Razvan]

zomg, rich is laying down the law.

i think the issue with GAT is that people still have a lot of problems playing it right, including myself. whenever i play GAT, i find myself thinking that the deck is terrible. often, i don't have enough draw. often, i use a bunch of spells and don't have a dryad, and thus lose tempo. often, i find myself out-drawn, out-countered, out-tempoed, out-everything by it.

then i go back to the drawing board and try to tweak it, adding this card, cutting that one, doing this or that to it, and by the end, i have something that's worse than the original.

no other deck has ever given me such a problem. now, it's obvious that the deck is good, and i am terrible, and i am beginning to think that this deck is the least friendly to new players than most other decks, including gifts or long, for some reason. a very odd thing to say, but i think it might be right.

i tried confidant in GAT too, but i basically came to the same conclusion as duncan. scroll or dryad is tons better. heck, possibly night's whisper is better too, you lose less life, you still put a counter on the dryad, and you get the 2 cards now, as opposed to a few turns later if they don't do one damage to it.

[Xman]

You don't have to be such a dick it was just a suggestion and I would gladly play Confidant against you.

Yes, it was a suggestion.  It is a suggestion that has been done repeatadly.  It has been tested by lots of people, and It kills the person so much faster.  I am told that Confidant is a good card.  I can easily disagree with it.  I have been told it can bury you under Card Advantage in ways Library wished it could do.  I have not seen it.  But that is a debate for another thread.

Maybe Confidant is good in a deck designed to use & abuse it.  GAT is not a deck that can use & abuse it.  There are better cantrips out there than Confidant in an already life intensive deck.  This is why most lists run opts over Wraith.  It is already a life intensive deck with Fastbond, Vampiric Tutor, Force of Will, Fetchlands, & lets not forget that you have an opponent in this game.  Maybe he can attack you or hit you with a weak tendrils or something like that.  but it is pretty frequent in GAT that you run your own life pretty far down.

I am sorry if I came off as a "dick."  But Confidant does 2 things in GAT as a GAT player.  Slows you down, and costs you more life in a deck that you already lose enough from.  Everytime I have come across someone who has dropped Confidant against me, it is usually out of a Fish-esque deck, and in a couple of turns allows me to kill them.  Confidant prevents them from having more turns to react.  That is, unl;ess you do something like Top constantly with it, which GAT can't do.

And I do not mean to come off now as a "dick" or degrading or anything.  Just trying to explain cleaere, which I have a feeling I actually muddled it up.



As for Razvan

i think the issue with GAT is that people still have a lot of problems playing it right, including myself. whenever i play GAT, i find myself thinking that the deck is terrible. often, i don't have enough draw. often, i use a bunch of spells and don't have a dryad, and thus lose tempo. often, i find myself out-drawn, out-countered, out-tempoed, out-everything by it.

You might be right that most people are misplaying it.  I haven't seen to many players misplay it.  I feel it is simple, but it is a deck I have played a lot of over the years.  Maybe you are not mulliganning properly or fetching the right cards with Scroll or whatever.  I generally find it able to bury just about every other deck under its Card Advantage & just be able to go absolutely nuts from the beginning.

With GAT, work your way into a position where you have control of the game, then gro, and go for the throat.  Also, the other rule, is there is no one best build with GAT.  It is not a long Combo deck.  It is constantly evolving.  & it will evolve in different ways depending on the meta.  But it should be able to win almost any tournament, any time.

& again, Rich, sorry if I come off as unfriendly.  That is not my intention, though I will admit my early post was a little rough.

[SyntheticAngel]

Further testing with GAT does prove your point. I had times when I had Fastbond and Confidant out. They put me down very low. I did however still win, but a Tendrils with storm of 2 would have killed me which is not something I like. The only thing I did like about Confidant was how cheaply he cast and quickly knocked my opponent down just that much farther, but then.... I flipped Force of Will then........ Gush it sucks looking at the deck on paper it seemed like Confidant could fit in there. Even when I cut Misdirections for Dazes I still ended up taking quite a bit of damage. Sorry for the dick comment.