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Author Topic: U/B control/sui plese help  (Read 1213 times)
Mophead-Masquerade
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« on: September 02, 2007, 01:53:19 am »

So I finally decided to play a decent deck. My friend and I wrote a list for SS that was adapted for my local metagame, don't get me wrong it is a good list. I just wanted to try to have multiple lists so they don't know what to side for. Anyways I started with SS and combined it with Sui because Sui has bigger threats. This is just off the top of my head, but I'll do some testing. Here are the results, please give suggestions.

THE SUI SOLUTION

MANA
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Underground Sea
2 Watery Grave
3 Swamp
2 Island
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual

CREATURES
3 Dimir Cutpurse
3 Phyrexian Negator
2 Juzam Djinn

DISRUPTION
4 Force of Will
4 Duress
4 Mana Leak
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Echoing Truth

DRAW
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Brainstorm

TUTOR
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

LEFTOVERS
1 Time Walk

SB IDEAS:
-Leyline of the Void/Singularity
-Smother
-Threads of Disloyalty
-Engineered Plague

ideas??


Card Choices:
Cutpurse-I like the card personally but if there is a better option for this slot let me know.

negator/djinn- big threats just owning and giving this deck a good clock... hopefully

mana leak-i like the card, and it is not as bad as a lot of people have told me it was

If your curious about any of the other cards just ask.

If I play this in a tournament, I'll post results and also I'll put in some testing.
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netherspirit
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2007, 06:05:07 am »

I don't really like Juzam Djinn in here. Don't get me wrong, it's a strong card, but not fast enough for Vintage. I'd rather run something like Dark Confidant which gets me extra cards and is cheap to play.
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Mophead-Masquerade
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2007, 06:11:57 am »

yeah I was thinking
-2 Juzam

+1 Negator
+1 chain of vapor or something


I think confidant is a great card. but is he better for this deck than the cutpurse? because then i would run
4 bob
4 negator

for my creatures..
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netherspirit
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2007, 06:22:36 am »

In all honesty I'd much rather run four Confidants and four Cutpurses, but that may slow the deck down more and take away the Sui element.

I think if you really want to keep Negator you should have three Confidants, two Cutpurses and two Negators.
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Mophead-Masquerade
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2007, 06:29:32 am »

alright that sounds good.
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hitman
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2007, 05:40:55 pm »

Hey Mophead,

First, Phyrexian Negator is strictly wrong with the liklihood of having to play against two Goblins decks.  You're board will always be wiped by a Gempalm Incinerator. 

Second, literally half your draw engine is reliant on resolving and maintaining creatures.  If you cut the card drawing creature count from 8 to 5, you will be out-gassed in your tougher matchups because you won't be able to keep the threats coming.  When playing blue, why give yourself the same weaknesses Stax has?  You're taking two deck philosophies that are at odds with each other leaving you a diluted aggro strategy and diluted control strategy.  SS revolves around card advantage so cutting off practically all the cards that generate it (i.e. Erayo, Confidant, Engineered Explosives, etc.) you leave yourself open to the same problems you're experiencing now with Black/White except you have Force of Will to stop early threats.  However, without a way to reliably replenish your hand, you will find the card disadvantage Force of Will produces unsatisfactory.

All the deck needs to do is stop the early 1/1s that set up stupid turn 3 plays like mana producing Llanowar Elves and threat producing Goblin Lackeys.  In the present environment, Hymn to Tourach is a hard card to play because Misdirection is ever-prevalent.  I remember mainboarding two just because I knew you commited four entire slots of your deck to the card.  If you have a forty percent chance of having it in your opening hand and I'm on the play, I'll just drop an Island and pass, you will Duress, I will Brainstorm, turn two you will Hymn to Tourach.  Between two turns and a Brainstorm I either have a high liklihood of finding a means to get Misdirection or another Brainstorm.  You've spent your hand trying to waste mine to no effect.

Your mana base is excessive.  You're playing sixteen lands.  Even Slaver usually only plays fourteen and their average casting cost is higher than yours and you also have Dark Ritual.  If you do get a draw engine going, you will be flipping up irrelevant lands all the time to Dark Confidant.  You aren't playing Wasteland/Strip Mine, Engineered Explosives, and Stifle so Mana Leak, in games against good players, will be bad.  Like all soft counters, their power diminishes as soon as your opponent is aware of them so you need to bottleneck them at the source, mana. 

SS is a rather skill-intensive deck that really rewards a lot of practice where you discover how to control the game through different means in different matchups.  I suggest trying the list I adjusted for you because we literally broke the entire metagame down to reflect those minor changes while keeping the primary focus on card advantage, which will win you the aggro matchups by the way.  Don't be discouraged if you're not familiar with the deck, yet.

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Mophead-Masquerade
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2007, 09:11:26 pm »

After testing this deck alongside ss, this is the weaker choice. I'm going to stick to ss and forget about this. but it is still open for discussion if anyone feels the need.
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Convo about Nantuko Shade:

Smar: Mophead: Gay For Shade
Me: thats the title of my autobiography!!!! Paul has already reserved like 4 copies!
Smar: haha
Me: well... they do make a great present
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