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Author Topic: Trader's Scroll  (Read 2269 times)
asi
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« on: August 08, 2007, 05:51:35 pm »

Card first:

Trader's Scroll
{1} {R}
Sorcery
Search your library for a red sorcery card, reveal it, then put it into your hand. Shuffle your library afterwards.

Red Sorceries mostly suck, so I hope the power level of this isn't too high. It's obviously a mirrored Merchant Scroll, so I hope it doesn't already exist somewhere on this forum since it's quite obvious. I don't know whether red should have such good tutor effects, but I'm bored of a lot of red cards recently, so I thought this might add a nice effect to the colour.
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zimagic
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2007, 03:14:32 am »

What red sorceries are you planning to get that requires this to be a 2cc sorcery spell?

As a sorcery itself and with a colour limitation, I think that giving it  {R} wouldn't push the boundries too much.
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Liam-K
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2007, 03:25:00 am »

wheel of fortune, burn, land destruction, artifact removal, and dragonstorm come to mind as legitimate targets in constructed

in limited or possibly block it fetches expensive bombs like flame wave and insurrection

this card is cheap and mirrors a card that is getting crammed into every vintage deck for being awesome.  Bad call.
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asi
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2007, 06:10:16 am »

wheel of fortune, burn, land destruction, artifact removal, and dragonstorm come to mind as legitimate targets in constructed

in limited or possibly block it fetches expensive bombs like flame wave and insurrection

this card is cheap and mirrors a card that is getting crammed into every vintage deck for being awesome.  Bad call.

Well, I don't think it has much power-level issues. Red sorceries are less dangerous than blue instants. "Burn" is mostly instant-speed, land destruction doesn't have to be tutored (you can simply play more landdestruction instead of this), Dragonstorm is ok but not too broken (especially since both won't be standard legal). Wheel of Fortune is the best of your list, but in a deck playing Wheel (which means Vintage), the only other red sorceries will be Burning Wish and possibly Spree. I can live with that.
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zimagic
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2007, 08:36:35 am »

wheel of fortune, burn, land destruction, artifact removal, and dragonstorm come to mind as legitimate targets in constructed

in limited or possibly block it fetches expensive bombs like flame wave and insurrection

this card is cheap and mirrors a card that is getting crammed into every vintage deck for being awesome.  Bad call.

I'll have to stick by my guns on this as there are very few decks that can afford the space to run this that absolutely have to have that red sorcery.

Red in Vintage is generally underpowered except for Burning Wish and maybe Wheel and Wheel is not in every deck by a long stretch. The ability to search for any sorcery would obviously merit a higher cost but limiting the colour, especially in red, says that this would be a useful tool but nothing like Merchant Scroll in terms of power.

Another word on the MS comparison, MS is used as the first link in a chain which generally leads to Yawg/Tendrils. This could not be (if for no other reason than most of these chains don't want to support  {R} {R} consistantly by going Trader's/Burning/Whatever)

Outside Vintage I could see it being much stronger but it would only dilute aggro decks and R/x control and Combo, especially at sorcery speed, is far from being dominant.
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Harlequin
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2007, 08:47:46 am »

Maybe have this scroll be an instant?  It kinda doesn't make much sense but you could argue the whole mirror-opposite thing against MS because MS is a sorcery that gets an instant, where this would be an instant that gets a sorcery.  Being instant would justify the cost.
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asi
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2007, 12:53:52 pm »

wheel of fortune, burn, land destruction, artifact removal, and dragonstorm come to mind as legitimate targets in constructed

in limited or possibly block it fetches expensive bombs like flame wave and insurrection

this card is cheap and mirrors a card that is getting crammed into every vintage deck for being awesome.  Bad call.

I'll have to stick by my guns on this as there are very few decks that can afford the space to run this that absolutely have to have that red sorcery.

Red in Vintage is generally underpowered except for Burning Wish and maybe Wheel and Wheel is not in every deck by a long stretch. The ability to search for any sorcery would obviously merit a higher cost but limiting the colour, especially in red, says that this would be a useful tool but nothing like Merchant Scroll in terms of power.

Another word on the MS comparison, MS is used as the first link in a chain which generally leads to Yawg/Tendrils. This could not be (if for no other reason than most of these chains don't want to support  {R} {R} consistantly by going Trader's/Burning/Whatever)

Outside Vintage I could see it being much stronger but it would only dilute aggro decks and R/x control and Combo, especially at sorcery speed, is far from being dominant.

Well, making this better would give red an actual good tutor. Red shouldn't have much, let alone good tutors. Also, when Merchant Scroll was printed, it was quite shitty. More red sorceries yet to come could make this quite good.

About making it an instant: I thought about that, too, with the very same line of thinking. I'm not sure people would get it, though, and sorceries also fit much more into red than instants (see Izzet Guildmage)
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Anusien
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2007, 04:54:48 pm »

Is this the kind of ability we give to Red?  Red only got Burning Wish as part of a cycle; Gamble was added to complete the Mystical/Worldly/Enlightened/Vampiric Tutor cycle.  Of all the colors, red has the worst tutoring.  What's more, this flavor doesn't really fit; Red doesn't have traders for the most part and Red isn't about keeping knowledge on scrolls.  If you can find some good flavor and/or a better mechanic, I'd be in favor of this.  At the moment, we're past the blind red/blue mirroring.
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asi
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2007, 04:04:41 am »

Is this the kind of ability we give to Red?  Red only got Burning Wish as part of a cycle; Gamble was added to complete the Mystical/Worldly/Enlightened/Vampiric Tutor cycle.  Of all the colors, red has the worst tutoring.  What's more, this flavor doesn't really fit; Red doesn't have traders for the most part and Red isn't about keeping knowledge on scrolls.  If you can find some good flavor and/or a better mechanic, I'd be in favor of this.  At the moment, we're past the blind red/blue mirroring.


It's certainly a stretchof what red does, but remember- red is the colour of sorceries (see Izzet Guildmage, Anarchis, Burning Wish, Magnivore, Recoup).

Well, the name could be changed, to reflect less tradish things and sound more reddish, like "Pyromancer's Scroll".
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Anusien
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2007, 02:09:26 pm »

You want to know all the pure red tutoring power?

Dragonstorm, Gamble, Goblin Tutor (haha), Wild Research, Avarax, Chartooth Cougar, Dwarven Recruiter, Embermage Goblin, Goblin Matron, Goblin Recruiter, Godo, Bandit Warlord, Hired Giant, Homing Sliver, Imperial Hellkite, Imperial Recruiter, Moggcatcher, Zirilan of the Claw

What you are doing simply isn't done.  There is only one red actual tutor: Gamble.
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asi
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2007, 04:41:17 pm »

White can tutor enchantments (Auras especially) and artifacts, blue can fetch instants, green can go for creatures and lands, black does everything as it is the colour of tutoring. Red should do sorceries, in my opionion, as it did on Burning Wish. It maybe should get less tutors than red, green and blue, but why shouldn't there be some turors in the colour?
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Shock Wave
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2007, 09:38:36 pm »

White can tutor enchantments (Auras especially) and artifacts, blue can fetch instants, green can go for creatures and lands, black does everything as it is the colour of tutoring. Red should do sorceries, in my opionion, as it did on Burning Wish. It maybe should get less tutors than red, green and blue, but why shouldn't there be some turors in the colour?

The question isn't whether red should have access to tutors There are "tutors" in the colour, and they are awful, just as they are in white and green. Tutoring has never been one of red's fortes. Every tutor that exists for the colour is very limited in playability, and rightfully so. That's why we have the colour pie in the first place: to give colours specific strengths.

I understand that everybody wants to reinvent the colour pie wheel, but I don't think creating powerful (as tutors generally are) off-colour tutors is a good idea.
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