[Deck discussion] Mana Inflation

[beder]

Hi,

First, sorry for my non perfect English, this is a message from France.

Here is a build I am using right now on MWS.
This deck may be seen as an “aggro STACKless Stack”.

// Lands
    3 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    5 Mountain

// Creatures
    3 Triskelion
    3 Karn, Silver Golem
   
    4 Metalworker
   
    2 Goblin Welder

// Mana accelerator
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
   
// Disruption
    1 Trinisphere
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Thorn of Amethyst
    4 Tangle Wire

// Other staff
    3 Serum Powder
       
    2 Staff of Domination
    2 Bottled Cloister
    1 Memory Jar

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Jester's Cap
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Duplicant

SB x 4 to be defined


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Different ideas for this build :

- Mana discruption thanks to
-   8 spheres + Trini
-   4 Tangle Wire
-   Waste+Strip
-   Karn for moxes
The oppression on opponent’s mana resources is permanent and continue. It is quite frequent to have 3 spheres on board!

- Huge mana producers thanks to MetalWorker (even with workshop, metalworkers are very useful when 2 or 3 spheres are on board). Then of course, there is the combo with staff of domination…

- The use of Serum Powder to maximise the quality of the starting hand. Moreover, given the very high number of spheres and the number of Karn, the extra mana produced by serum is really useful. Thanks to those, it is quite easy to have a starting hand with at least one sphere.

- 3 Karn and 3 Triskellions : those creatures are so good, providing in the same time “card advantage” and a serious clock, that I want to be able to play one of them as soon as possible.

- Only 2 welders because this is not a direct threat. I don’t want it in my starting hand, I don’t have any quick discard mechanism. So welder is used to provide me with a nice “card advantage engine” in mid game, allowing mi to re use cards if the opponent succeeded in destroying or countering the first bombs I casted.

- Drawing thanks to “Bottled Cloister” and Memory jar : those 2 cards are used in mid game to re fill my hand. In the beginning of the game, Bottled Cloister may also be very useful if the opponent uses discard disruption (but be careful, if bottled if destroyed or bounce, you loose your hand!)

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2 different game plans :
- The “Metal worker + Staff of domination” plan => combo, put on board all the 8 spheres, lot of artefact, a karn, the triskells. Even if it doesn’t win you the game this turn, it should be really sufficient.
- The aggro plan => disruption to slow opponent, karn or triskellion to beat. It works pretty well, this is the most common situation.

One interesting point is that this deck is not really impacted by the graveyard hate – only two welders – and it has different game plans. An hard lock is not necessary: when a karn and 2 other artifacts attack each turn, you really have to find a quick answer.

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When it comes to the different match ups :
-   Flash : I didn’t test it enough to provide you with a serious assessment.
-   Gush deck : good matchup before side, I would say 60-40. Then, it may become more difficult but at least “even”.
-   Combo : good matchup, the spheres are very efficient, 55-45 before side.
-   Oath : bad matchup, it may be difficult to prevent them from playing oath and then, there isn’t any solution except racing them. One good point : the spheres will buy you some time against the “Tyrant build”.
-   Control : even/good matchup. Goblin welder can win you the game, one Karn on board may be sufficent to race thame.
-   Fish decks : good matchup, I would say 55-45. The deck is hurted by null rod but can still play aggressively and be faster.
-   Ichorid : ….
-   Stacks : it may be difficult given that I don’t use crucible of worlds. I need to test it a little bit more.

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Please, feel free to react; this build surely can be challenged.

Thanks for reading.

[And11]

Sphere's are good right now, I'll give you that. I'd pair your infinite spheres with some aggro components instead of relying on already mana-hungry stuff like Trikes to finish off your opponent.

Look at your own matchup analyses and ask your self: why would I play this deck? The reason I don't like the concept is simple. The top tier decks right now need little to no mana to operate. "Land, mox, Dryad" / "Land, mox, Flash" / "Land, Mox, Oath" and "turn Bazaar sideways, dump Grave-Troll" are all almost impossible to beat for your deck. I would feel very bad taking this to a tournament, but I'm not from France. Last time I played there, people played outdated TPS, Shop Aggro and T1Tog.

Anyway, have a nice day and thanks for posting.

[beder]

Hi,

First, thanks for your reply.

Then, I don't really agree with your analysis :

- first, you consider that the opponent starts. That is not always the case, hopefully

- then, you consider that the opponents starts with its best shot
   - for ichorid, i agree, this is always the case. But all the decks have the same pb when it comes to game 1 - except combo perhaps. Mine succeeds in winning few game 1 because sphere really slow down the ichorid token engine - no cabal ritual. When it comes to game 2, as any other deck, i use my side and the sphere becomes useful to prevent ichorid from using its enchantment/artifact removal.
   - for gush decks, i have to say that the first turn you described is not such a pb : a dryad 1/1 that grows really slowly because of my disruption is not a game over. For instance, a single Karn can deal with a nice 7/7 dryad. A triskell can also deal with it or even kill it before it grows.
   - for oath, you are right, this beginning is very difficult to deal with
   - for flash, right too, this is game - but this is also true for any other decks that don't have a fow - or 2 - in their starting hand

According to my recent tests, the match up is
   - pretty good against Gush decks, Combo/storm decks, Aggro decks
   - even or good against fish deck
   - even or good against control deck
   - fluctuant against classical stacks
   - bad against oath
   - i don't know against flash
   - as bad/good as lots of other decks against ichorid, using side

I think it should be sufficent to think about it. No?

[Grand Inquisitor]

I also think And11's assessment is a little simplistic, but you could also gain by not mentioning matchup win %'s which are widely viewed as unuseful for deck discussion since testing is hard to verify.

I've begun to get interested in archetypes like this, especially with the prominence of Gush based decks.  I have a few questions:

3 Triskelion
3 Karn, Silver Golem

I'll admit that the format is heavily geared towards creatures, but neither of these cards is very effective against 'combo' effects in vintage like fastbond/gush, yawgwill, etc.  Are the other lock pieces effective enough so that you don't need chalices, leyline, etc?  Do you ever draw too many Karn?

0 Crucible of Worlds

This seems strange given how good wasteland can be right now, and how well they supplement the sphere plan.  What were the reasons for not running it?

    2 Goblin Welder
    2 Staff of Domination
    2 Bottled Cloister
    1 Memory Jar

There's a lot of 1-2 of's for a deck without tutors.  Have you ever considered making this five color?  Also bottled cloister seems weak in a format full of merchant scroll; perhaps mind's eye?  What about something like:

-1 Goblin Welder
-1 Staff of Domination
-2 Bottled Cloister
-1 Karn, Silver Golem

+1 Demonic Tutor
+1 Vampiric Tutor
+1 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Tinker
+1 Mind's Eye

-5 Mountain
-1 Ancient Tomb

+4 City of Brass
+2 Gemstone Mine

[madmanmike25]

I have played enough with Workshop decks to take a stab at GI's questions.  Of course, these are my own opinions so beder can disagree with them if he feels they are inaccurate.

Are the other lock pieces effective enough so that you don't need chalices, leyline, etc?  Do you ever draw too many Karn?

In other decks that I have, that exact same disruption package is working out great for me.  For reference:

4 Sphere
4 Thorn
4 Tangle
1 Trini
4 Waste
1 Strip

Chalice would be nice and all, but it works better in a Stax deck or in a SB when you know which is more important; Chalice at 1 or Chalice at 2, sometimes if you only see one and you set it incorrectly it costs you greatly.  On another note, since this is NOT a Stax deck, there comes a point where if all you are doing is adding in dirsuption and not actually DOING something yourself......you only delay the inevitable.  If all you do maindeck is try and dirsrupt your opponent and you don't have a hard lock to back it up, chances are you will fail.  The disruption package above works well enough, the matchup will decide if more disruption should go in.

4 Karns would be too many.  3 means that he wants to see one AND have it resolve.

0 Crucible of Worlds

This seems strange given how good wasteland can be right now, and how well they supplement the sphere plan.  What were the reasons for not running it?

In most cases(again, this is my opinion) Metalworker takes the slot of Crucible.  Sometimes having both isn't necessary.  Metalworker is better when you have 9 spheres in your deck.  Crucible is better vs. Stax, and of course not to mention it eats all the non-basics floating around these days.  Remember, Thorn would make your own Crucibles cost more while not affecting the Metalworker.  If you have a Metalworker in play, you don't really care if your own lands are being wasted.  That being said, Crucible is still one of my favorite artifacts.

    2 Goblin Welder
    2 Staff of Domination
    2 Bottled Cloister
    1 Memory Jar

There's a lot of 1-2 of's for a deck without tutors.  Have you ever considered making this five color?  Also bottled cloister seems weak in a format full of merchant scroll; perhaps mind's eye? 

You forgot to add Trinisphere to that list, and yet it still gets played without tutors.  2 Staffs and 2 Welders seem like a good number to me, and of course Jar is restricted.  In reality I don't think this deck can afford to waste a turn tutoring since it's rare you will be able to cast the card you search for the same turn.

If you make this 5 color..........then why not just suggest that he should play Ray's Staxless Stax?  I think that either a mono-red or even a mono-brown deck has a decent shot with the introduction of the new artifact, Thorn of Amethyst.

Cloister is only okay, but I've never been screwed by it since I know when to play it(read: don't cast it your turn 1 when you are on the draw and your opponent has enough mana to tutor and bounce).  Minds Eye was ok too, in theory it costs 6 mana after you cast and use it on your opponents draw step.  Cloister costs 4.  Minds Eye might be considered similar to a "win-more" card since you can use it on Brainstorm, but with 8 spheres to up the cost, that 5cc goes up substantially just to get it into play.

I hope my answers have been helpful, feel free to disagree.  Thats just how I see things from my perspective when it comes to workshop decks, and I have played with lists similar to this one.

Mike

[And11]

Well, other decks have either FoW, Leyline and/or speed to combat the scenarios I mentioned. I'm aware these decks don't have these explosive opening every game, but it should be considered when building a deck with none of the above "answers to brokeness". Personally I would never play "Stax" without Leylines and Bazaar (to cycle potential dead cards and dump expensive stuff for Welder). I guess you abandoned the reliance on welders because of the huge amout of graveyard hate floating around, which also seems reasonable. In my opinion you need turn 0 answers in Vintage, because the retarded card Flash exists. Oh well...

You mention being on the play as an important factor. I tend to agree, but it's truly an uphill battle trying to keep Flash off enough mana to cast Flash before a Trike shows up to seal the deal. You can maybe keep Oath and Dryad from resolving for a turn or two, but considering your lock components, I just can't picture locking decks out of the game that needs 2-3 mana to operate. Is your base of lock components really sufficient?

Good night!

[beder]

Hi all,

Thanks for your answers. I will try to answer few questions that were asked :

Grand Inquisitor :
but you could also gain by not mentioning matchup win %'s which are widely viewed as unuseful for deck discussion since testing is hard to verify.

You are right, I shoudn’t have used %. My idea was just to provide overall indicators according to my testings. And sure, this is only my constatations, not really representatives.

 

Grand Inquisitor : Are the other lock pieces effective enough so that you don't need chalices, leyline, etc? 
Do you ever draw too many Karn?

+When it comes to Chalices, I tried it a lot, because I like this card and here are my conclusions.
Chalice for 0 is good on the play but not necessary considering the other cards of this build : spheres+karn deals quite well with moxes => most of the time, the mox mana acceleration cannot be used the same turn the mox is played, because of sphere.
Chalice for 1 is a direct play, but is really not a game over (ancestrall/brainstorm in response to chalice, it doesn’t counter opponent best cards, ….)
Chalice for 2 is very nice but it kills all your spheres. Then opponent can use all its resource to find a chain, a rebuild of a repeal…
The chalice plan is extermely powerful if you succeed in casting chalice for 1 and for 2…, very difficult.
So I gave it up… And I have to say that I don’t really miss it.

+ 3 Karn is really nice in my testings: generally, when karn comes on board, I already have other artefacts so it becomes a huge threat the same turn it arrives on board (not really impacted by the summonig sickness ). Opponent has to deal with it very quickly. As a result, I nearly never have 2 karns in hand or 1 in hand and 1 on board. Either there isn’t enough time to draw another one, I have won game before. Or the first one has been countered/destroyed and then I am very glad to draw another one.

+ When it comes to the efficency of the other disruption piece against combo/will deck, i feel comfortable with the 9 spheres, 4 tangle wire (+welder), 5 Waste and Karn to eat moxes. It buys you a lot of time, allowing you to race them with your own guys. In this matchup - like in any other in fact - the huge mistake is to try to settle a hard lock. This deck is really not about controling the game or hard locking opponent, disruption is there to provide you with the necessary time to rush with karn/triskell or to put on board safely staff of domination with metal worker.

Grand Inquisitor : 0 Crucible of Worlds. This seems strange given how good wasteland can be right now, and how well they supplement the sphere plan.  What were the reasons for not running it?

Crucible is really strong to protect you mana base and also to lock thanks to wasteland.
The first benefit is not so important for this build, as it has been said by madmanmike25, because i have metal workers (+serum).
The second benefit is interesting but in my testings, it was not such a bomb, with regards to the tempo of this deck. You put it early game, it is not a direct threat. It is a threat that says – if I have a wasteland in hand or in graveyard -  deal with me or in the next turns, you won’t have any more non basic land. I nearly always wanted to draw something that have an impact on game right now (same idea as Ray's Staxless), or to continue my mana inflation.
It is also important to notice that I don’t always have a waste in hand (or my graveyard has been removed) and so this card is sometimes totally useless. I am not using the bazaar draw engine that helps you a lot finding your wasteland. Not even mentionning decks with a sufficent number of basics...

Grand Inquisitor : Also bottled cloister seems weak in a format full of merchant scroll

When it comes to bottled cloister, I have to say it is strange. I do agree, the card is apparently not the best bomb of this deck. But in my testings, I have nearly never been disappointed with 2 of them. It nearly works as a dark confidant, refueling my hand very efficently, without the life loss. It becomes a 4/4 creature with karn on board. It can be tapped for Tangle Wire…
Moreover, as madmanmike25 said, I nearly never have pb with the “remove your hand”. It has even helped me a few times protecting me against discard disruption.
I agree with you, I am not sure this is the best use for those 2 slots, but I don’t know why it worked so well with me (even if it breaks the “direct effect“ rule, that I tried to apply to each cards of this build).
I am really ready to take into consideration propositions to replace those 2 slots, right now I didn’t find a better challenger…

madmanmike25 : I have played enough with Workshop decks to take a stab at GI's questions.  Of course, these are my own opinions so beder can disagree with them if he feels they are inaccurate.

Don’t worry, you helped me a lot providing those elements, I totally agree with your answers

And11 : Is your base of lock components really sufficient?

When it comes to combo/gush decks, I tend to think that the lock components made of 9 spheres and tangle wire is sufficient to slow them really down, allowing me to beat them strongly with my creatures/artifact.
When it comes to flash, “I don’t know, I didn’t test it”  . And you are right, this is really a point I have to check.
But I feel like I can slow them down a little bit, just sufficiently to put on board one of my creatures, that will buy me more time. What I can say is that with this deck, a karn or a triskell is very quickly on board.
But again, I must test to validate or invalidate my thoughts.


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Then, I would like to point out different points when it comes to analyse this build :

+ the use of serum powder, that are very powerful in this deck :
-   my starting hand generally has at least 2 bombs in hand
-   this card is not useless when I draw it during game : can be a 3/3 attacking creature, can produce one more mana that is often very useful when it comes to be able to play under the spheres without being slow down, or to draw a card thanks to staff of domination, or to tap huge creature thanks to staff again.

+ thorn is not as symmetric as sphere : I play 12 creatures so those 12 spells are not affected by thorn, allowing me to play very quickly, even casting 2 bombs a turn. Moreover, one of them is a huge mana producer.

+ the draw engine of this deck is pretty efficent, allowing the "continue mana inflation in mid game" : staff of domination, bottled cloister, memory jar or even welder participate very efficently in fueling the engine (serum for the starting hand, draw engine made of different pieces for mid-late game). Perhaps the most important objective of this deck is to succeed in moving from the early game to the mid game while continuing the improvement of the soft lock. If there is a hole in the chain, then against some decks this is a game over.

+ this deck has to be played aggressively, the mana inflation mechanism is only a soft lock, a nice and easy way to slow down opponents (or prevent them from comboing), in order to allow me to
-   put on board one of my creatures, providing at the same time a board solution (mox for karn, little creatures for triskell) and a nice clock
-   sometimes put on board the combo Metal worker/Staff, which means game over in the turn

Hope my answers were sufficiently detailed (and that my English is understandable )

[Ulthrion]

Hi,

I don't want to claim to know much at all about vintage, but wouldn't tinker/sundering titan be good for this deck? It acts as another strip mine with a good clock, it can take down slow growing dryads, it wastes a land when bounced (of which there is enough), and even then it can add mana through metalworker (possibly for hardcasting it again). On a side note, I wouldn't include Darksteel Colossus as tinker target because it more difficult to hardcast, has no direct impact, and there should be enough bounce in the format to make it virtually dead. Sundering Titan is actually strong against bounce tactics.

The problem is what to cut for this of course (and the question whether going into blue makes you want to add ancestral recall/time walk, which take up even more space).

I understand the power of the welders, but how vital are they really for this deck? How are the games where you don't draw into one? Your plan is to beat your opponent quickly, so welders shouldn't see more than a single activation on something like a tangle wire. Is it enough to warrant their inclusion over tinker/sundering titan? The blue option is definately more swingy than the more consistant welders, and they help out against bad topdecks as well. Not to forget that they protect against colossus and platinum angel as well. Still, it might be worth experimenting with this though, especially since the duplicants from the sideboard can help against both of these.

If you go to blue, ancestral could replace a serum powder as they both generate better hands. Time walk seems powerful in a deck that also utilizes the additional attack phase, but it has a bad synergy with the tangle wires, which makes it a bit situational at best. That said, a resolved time walk could very well be victory for this deck, both in the early game and mid-to-end-game by either getting an additional land drop/wasteland action, or an additional attack phase to push the last points of damage through.

Finally, have you considered the artifact lands instead of basics? They are more vulnerable to wastelands, but as you said, the deck isn't too afraid of those with it's metalworkers. However, they add mana with the metalworkers and academy, and can be used for tinkering (should you add those). Darksteel citadel could be used to protect some mana against wastelands, but that will probably be bad for the amount of colored mana in the deck.

Would Ensnaring Bridge be a sideboard option for the oath matchup (as well as fish)? It has great synergy with bottled cloister, and keeps their monsters from hitting you. It does nothing against platinum angel though, which might be the real problem for this deck if the welders get cut. Then again, you can side in the duplicants as well, and just wait to hit one of those on the angel.

This looks like a very cool deck to play, good luck with it, and I hope that my amateurish vintage comments could be be of some help.

[PETER FLUGZEUG]

I think you have.
I don't know if titan is at it's highest at the moment because of gush, but I think that if you don't run basics for yourself, it doesn't backfire.
also, I like you idea of ensnaring bridge, wich creates a nice synergy with cloister. The problem is that it might hinder yourself if you haven't enough cards in hand.
I could imagine that artifact lands could actually be useful. The only problem being null rod Fuck1ng up your whole manabase. Like, all of it.
Have you tested 5c?

[Bill Copes]

I like this deck because of the consistency of the disruption and it's multiple avenues of winning the game.  I think that it might be a little mana heavy, given that you have 27 sources, with the addition of 4 metalworkers and 3 serum powders.  With the ability to powder away inconsistent hands, you can afford to cut a source or two for more business cards.

Here are the changes i'd make to the list:

-1 Ancient Tomb
-1 Wasteland
-1 Triskelion

+2 Sensei's Diving Top
+1 Goblin Welder

Welders are more important than ever in today's metagame, despite all of the graveyard hate going around.  They are your only "second chance // affect the board now" cards that let you get back in the game if something goes awry.  Even if they are dead to your board because of an opponents' leyline, they can still do subtle things to the opponents side or even, heaven forbid, block a dryad.  They're also golden in anything you can call close to a mirror (staff-worker not too common nowadays).

I'm now in the belief that Sensei's top belongs in any deck that has workshops.  Even though your list rules in its level of consistency, you have no way to improve card quality during the game.  Tops have been saving me from terrible top-decks for the past 2 months.  The tricks you can do with a top and a welder are amazing.

Nice list.  I'm glad you posted it.  I think this is a great starting point for the new school of metalworker decks.  I don't think the archetype has been played and proven enough at all, so there is a ton of potential here to be discovered.


Side note:  Although not necessary for the way the deck functions, a 5 color manabase would open you up to a myriad of sideboard options that the list is currently lacking.

[beder]

Hi all,

After few more testings and thinking about Adullah's remark about mana base too heavy, here is the new build i am using right now

/ Lands
    2 Ancient Tomb   (-1)
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Tolarian Academy
    4 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    5 Mountain

// Creatures
    2 Triskelion   (-1)
    3 Karn, Silver Golem
   
    4 Metalworker
   
    2 Goblin Welder

// Mana accelerator
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mana Vault
   
// Disruption
    1 Trinisphere
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Thorn of Amethyst
    4 Tangle Wire

// Other staff
    3 Serum Powder
       
    2 Staff of Domination
    2 Orb of Dreams
    2 Bottled Cloister
    1 Memory Jar

// Sideboard
SB: 4 Jester's Cap
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Duplicant

SB x 4 to be defined


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Some explications :

- imo, 2 welders are really ok. In this build, those guys are usefull in mid games. Most of the time, when I put one of them on board during early game, it doesn't have a huge impact.
- orb of dreams is huge in the early game, good in mid game, awfull in late game. 2 seems to be a right number given that I really don't want to draw 2 of them.

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Some remarks :

+ I have been surprised many times by the capacity of this build to continue playing even with energy flux on board. I won 2 games agains flash that succeded in casting energy flux, thanks to metal worker, ancent tomb or even the mountain.
+ That also makes me think that mountains shoudn't be replaced by artifact-land : I have never faced a situation where I needed extra mana from metal worker. The only case where it could have been usefull is as a welder target... But imo, it is not sufficent to make the mana base weaker.
+ Sensei could be a contender for 2 slots, but given that I don't think adding a welder is a good idea, and that I don't have any shuffle effect, right now it stays out of the build...
+ even without metal worker, staff of domination is a nice drawer in this deck

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Match up updates :

- Flash :
My testings were very interesting : right now, over 3  2/3 matchs, i won 2 of them. Adding jester post side is quite huge (removing 3 slivers means gg). Testing to be continued...

- Gush decks :
Adding the 2 orb of dreams is extremely strong, the match up is definitely a good one.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Generally speaking, the more I play with this deck the more I find it efficent and consistant.

[beder]

Hi all,

After a few more testing on mws, here is the latest build I play:

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// Lands
    2 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Tolarian Academy
    3 Wasteland
    1 Strip Mine
    4 Mountain
    2 Great Furnace

// Mana Acceleration
    5 Moxes
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Mana Crypt

// …
    3 Serum Powder

// Disruption
    1 Trinisphere
    4 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Thorn of Amethyst
   
    4 Tangle Wire
   
// Creatures
    3 Triskelion
    3 Karn, Silver Golem
    4 Metalworker
    2 Goblin Welder
    2 Gorilla Shaman

// Draw and combo
    3 Staff of Domination
    1 Memory Jar

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Jester's Cap
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Duplicant
SB: 2 Rack and Ruin
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

--The core business of the deck

There is right now a lot of deck lists displayed on TMD’s forums with 9 or even 13 spheres. Generally, I have the feeling that one important point has been forgotten:
“OK, spheres slow down or lock opponent, but it can also slow you down or even lock yourself.”
You really have to be sure of your mana producing capacity to play a sphere turn one. Given the high CC of most spells in a stack build, sphere turn 1 can really become an auto lock (even if you use crucible of worlds).

I truly believe that the “9 or more spheres” idea belongs to a deck that uses many alternative ways to produce high quantity of mana. This is a required condition to use spheres as a really non symmetric spell.

And so, this leads me to the conclusion that “9 spheres” combined with Metal worker is the most efficient way to make spheres non symmetric. This also provides you with a nice and efficient combo that nearly wins the game the turn it is played.

More over, this build is a very nice place to use serum powder: it makes it really better because useful even if drawn during the game: produces the mana required to play a spell, to draw cards with staff of domination or is a target for Karn and attacks for 3.

-- The creature choice

3 triskellion : This helps you deal with many aggro deck, with flash, with a big dryad, with welder… I really love this guy.
3 karn : no comment.

I will just comment the figures 3 and 3.
I really need a quick threat and also to be able to play a second one quickly if the first one has been countered. I tried with only 2 triskell, with only 2 karn, and I have to say that it is not really good. This deck cannot lock you long enough to wait 6, 7 or more turns in order to find a threat. I am rarely disappointed when drawing Karn or Triskell.

2 welders : 2 is sufficient, their objective is to be a bomb in mid game
2 gorillas : to complete karn capacity to deal with mox,  and also in combination with all other mana producers, to deal with bigger artifacts.


-- Sideboard choice

Not optimal according to me. Has to be changed…

[Negator13]

I wasn't sure whether to post this in this thread or in MaxxMatt's, but I've been messing around with ideas for a deck like this and I was wondering if anyone else has thought of ye olde Ankh of Mishra for this type of deck, given the Gush-heavy metagame. It seems like a solid, cheap threat that can easily be cast under your own spheres (like MM's Black Vises and whatnot} and combined with the spheres it seems like it would be really hard to lose to GAT or Empty combo. My list is pretty close to the ones on here, a little reminiscent of IRM.

5 Mountain
4 Mishra's Workshop
2 Mishra's Factory
5 Strip
1 Tolarian Academy
9 SoLoMoxCryptVault

2 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman
4 Juggernaut
3 Karn
3 Triskelion/Razormane Masticore (Not sure about this one, Trisk's better overall I think but RM's more easily castable under spheres)

4 Chalice of the Void
9 Spheres
4 Ankh of Mishra
3 Crucible of Worlds


Thoughts? I'm not sure about the red, Welders and Shamans don't seem to be absolutely necessary. You could run 5C for some tutors/power or you could go all colorless for more Factories/Ghost Quarters. I'd say Ancient Tomb could be an option but it doesn't exactly play nice with Ankh.