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Anusien
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« on: August 22, 2007, 02:34:23 am » |
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~Flexible Black Tutor~ - XB Sorcery Search your library for a card with converted mana cost X, reveal it, and put it into your hand. Shuffle your library.
I was thinking about it, and I don't even know if this card is good. It's as good as Merchant Scroll at finding Ancestral, better at finding Lotus, and worse at finding just about anything else (Pact or Brainstorm, I guess). What interests me about this card is that it puts you behind the curve on whatever card you use. I wonder what the community thinks of costing it like this.
Current wording: ~Flexible Black Tutor~ - XB Sorcery Search your library for a card with converted mana cost X, reveal it, and put it into your hand. X can't be zero. Shuffle your library.
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« Last Edit: August 29, 2007, 08:25:59 pm by Anusien »
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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Shock Wave
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2007, 03:01:52 am » |
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This is rather ridiculous. It puts Black Lotus in your hand for one black mana. It just can't exist in its current form.
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"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt
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zimagic
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2007, 07:43:21 am » |
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This is rather ridiculous. It puts Black Lotus in your hand for one black mana. It just can't exist in its current form.
You can restrict it to non-artifact or stipulate "cost lest than or equal to X. X cannot be 0" There's not much to change to make it a great card but not broken.
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Insert Quote here
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Ephraim
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« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2007, 08:37:38 am » |
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Keep it as a sorcery, but have it put the card on top of your library or give you the card at the end of turn. Make it Rhystic magic, but better than Rhystic tutor.
Better Rhystic Tutor XB Sorcery
Unless any player pays X, search your library for a card with converted mana cost X or less, reveal it, and put that card into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Sure, you can pay B to search for Black Lotus, but your opponent won't let you have it.
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Did you know that Red is the color or art and music and passion? Combine that with Green, the color of nature, spiritualism, and community and you get a hippie commune of drum circles, dreamcatchers, and recreational drug use. Let's see that win a Pro Tour.
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Anusien
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« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2007, 11:40:11 am » |
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Is 1B that ridiculous to get Black Lotus? At that price it turns Black Lotus into Dark Ritual (or you can wait a turn). It's inflexible in that there are not many (any) Vintage caliber cards it finds apart from trinkets, Black Lotus, Brainstorm and Ancestral Recall. If it saw play, it would be the least flexible tutor to see play in Vintage, perhaps ever.
I think I see the issue though. Would it be better at X1B?
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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ErkBek
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Posts: 974
A strong play.
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« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2007, 08:05:27 pm » |
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Also, another potential problem with having it cost XB is it's another card that can tutor up Fastbond very cheaply. Demonic for Fastbond is always an strong play. Then their is Strip Mine, that's another good card to get for B or 1B.
I think if the card cost X1B it'd be a little underwhelming for any ritual combo. At XB with the restriction that X > 0, you're looking at a card that for the most part will just grab 1 costers (Ancestral, Fastbond, Duress, or Chain of Vapor). 2B for a 2 cost spell probably won't come up much because frankly, 2 mana spells are core unrestricted cards, (2sphere, Scroll, Drain, Dryad, Dark Confidant).
So basically it comes to this. XB w/o restrictions is too good. XB w/restrictions basically makes a merchant scroll variant. X1B and you're looking at something that's only going to grab 0 costers and occasionally Fastbond, Ancestral, or Chain of Vapor. I'd really hate to see another card that can tutor for Strip Mine, so maybe it should be
Flexible Tutor X1B Tutor for a non-land card CC = to X
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Team GWS
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Shock Wave
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« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2007, 10:36:15 pm » |
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Also, another potential problem with having it cost XB is it's another card that can tutor up Fastbond very cheaply. Demonic for Fastbond is always an strong play. Then their is Strip Mine, that's another good card to get for B or 1B.
I think if the card cost X1B it'd be a little underwhelming for any ritual combo. At XB with the restriction that X > 0, you're looking at a card that for the most part will just grab 1 costers (Ancestral, Fastbond, Duress, or Chain of Vapor). 2B for a 2 cost spell probably won't come up much because frankly, 2 mana spells are core unrestricted cards, (2sphere, Scroll, Drain, Dryad, Dark Confidant).
So basically it comes to this. XB w/o restrictions is too good. XB w/restrictions basically makes a merchant scroll variant. X1B and you're looking at something that's only going to grab 0 costers and occasionally Fastbond, Ancestral, or Chain of Vapor. I'd really hate to see another card that can tutor for Strip Mine, so maybe it should be
Flexible Tutor X1B Tutor for a non-land card CC = to X
I still don't like it. Vintage does not need another tutor that grabs Black Lotus for 1B. It's just unnecessary and not very interesting.
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"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt
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Anusien
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2007, 11:38:11 am » |
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Is it fine at XB: Tutor for CMC X, X can't be 0?
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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Wobbles
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« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2007, 03:59:51 am » |
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I think the X can't be zero clause makes it clunky, and it's still pretty silly at just XB. Increasing it to X{B}{B} and making it an instant makes it alot more interesting to grab a Pact with, or even just EOTing with. Still, doesn't strike me as exciting, it just feels really risky. X Sorcery search your library for a card with CMC = 5-X might be interesting, in that cognative dissonance sort of way.
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Anusien
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« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2007, 11:59:06 am » |
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XBB is still sort of absurd to grab Black Lotus with.
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
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Titanium Dragon
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2007, 08:24:20 pm » |
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I've actually made this exact card (though I stipulated non-land on mine) and to be honest, I'm not sure that it is really overpowered. Yes, it'd almost certainly be instantly restricted in vintage, but I don't think it is very powerful in other formats. In block, standard, and extended this card is unlikely to have anything broken to tutor for at a lower cost than Diabolilc Tutor, so in those formats it will probably either be used in a silver-bullet strategy or in some deck with several combo pieces with CC less than three (the only one that comes to mind is Project X, which has access to Chord of Calling and arguably Congregation at Dawn). In legacy and Vintage, it can act as a Dark Ritual by fetching up Black Lotus/LED (though in the case of the latter, a rather bad Dark Ritual) as well as, in vintage, fetching Ancestral. Is it really better than Grim Tutor though? Grim doesn't get mana off any of the things it fetches, but grabs Yawgmoth's Will, Necropotence, Tinker, and Bargain for less.
If you don't specify nonland though, it is even nuttier in vintage, where it can fetch up Tolarian Academy for C, which would put it on the restricted list next to Crop Rotation. EDIT: Not to mention it'd be strictly better than Sylvan Scrying, a card that sees play.
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« Last Edit: August 31, 2007, 08:27:02 pm by Titanium Dragon »
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oneofchaos
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2007, 12:01:30 am » |
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What the big deal is, if printed in standard, paying B to get uborg or find any land is pretty good. I think the X cannot be 0 is a good idea rather than a nonland card, because it shuts down the ability to grab lands for just a black mana, and in vintage is shuts off getting lotus. It seem quite more balanced.
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Somebody tell Chapin how counterbalance works?
"Of all the major Vintage archetypes that exist and have existed for a significant period of time, Oath of Druids is basically the only won that has never won Vintage Championships and never will (the other being Dredge, which will never win either)." - Some guy who does not know vintage....
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