Different Strokes (Fastbond, Gush, Horn of Greed, Lotus Cobra combo)

[Lazer]

Ok, with the unrestriction of Gush I wanted to bring into discussion the old school combo deck Turbo Nevyn that was neutered when Gush was restricted.  For those of you who don't remember, Turbo Nevyn (which has nothing to do with Nevinyrral's Disk) was a combo deck that centered around Fastbond and Horn of Greed to draw your entire deck on turn 1, 2 or 3 and then drop a Glacial Chasm and cast Sickening Dreams discarding your hand and hitting your opponent for 40 plus damage.

We now have Lotus Cobra and Crucible of Worlds which we didn't have back in the day.  I'm wondering if we can see the return of Turbo Nevyn, with an alternative kill from all of the mana that is generated through the Cobra.  I've tested it a bit and the Lotus Cobra speeds things up a quite a bit from the old school builds and the extra mana it generates can be used for Mana Drains to push the kill through and also works well if you need to Stroke or Braingeyeser yourself to draw into more land.  Basically, play  Fastbond, Horn of Greed, Lotus Cobra, drop lots of land, draw lots of cards, Gush your lands back to your hand replay them draw lots more cards and generate lots of mana off the Cobra and/or Crucible, Fastbond, Academy, Zorb combo and then Stroke of Genius, Braingeyser or Kaerevek's Torch for the kill.  Kaerevek's Torch is optimal A). Because you don't need to generate as much mana as you do Stroke and Geyser.  B).  Kaerevek's Torch has the nifty ability to avoid being countered.  

Crucible of Worlds can do 3 things with Fastbond on the table:  1) Reuse Fetchlands over and over on the same turn drawing you lots of cards and generating lots of mana (this is only necessary if you are not drawing into enough lands with the Horn of Greed).  2).  Strip all of your opponents land away in one turn with Strip Mine making it unlikely for them to counter your kill.  3). Gain lots life through Zuran Orb, which is necessary as you get punished by Fastbond and Fetchlands everytime you use them.  That being said you generally want to be sacking Tolarian academy right after you tap it for 5+ mana, then replay it and do the same.  This is certainly not necessary if you are going to kill with Kaerevek's Torch as you won't generally need more than 22 mana, but killing with Stroke and Geyser is a little more difficult to do as it is a bit harder to generate 50+ mana by the Cobras alone unless you get them out early.

One thing I will point out while piloting this deck is that you will have the tendency to deck yourself if you are not careful.  Two Horn of Greed on the table is optimal, any more is dangerous.  One is optimal if you get Crucible and Fastbond combo working.  Although I will say, try to  stack your Cobras up to generate optimal amounts of mana then go for the kill after you've drawn most of your deck.

I really wanted to squeeze in another Gemstone Mine, Brainstorm, Merchant Scroll and Yawgmoth's Will but simply could not find the room.  Should Regrowth be replaced with any of these?  Or should I include both Regrowth and Yawg's Will in the event Fastbond gets countered.  Do I need another Island?  Is there enough land?  It seems pretty sick as it is!  Suggestions are welcome, feel free and proxy this deck up and let me know what you think.


DIFFERENT STROKES 1.0

Total Cards: 60

Combo: 18
4x Horn of Greed
4x Lotus Cobra
4x Gush
1x Fastbond
3x Exploration
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Zuran Orb

Search / Draw / Utility: 6
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Regrowth

Control: 8
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain

Kill: 3
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Braingeyser
1x Kaerevek's Torch

Mana Sources: 25
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Vault
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Strip Mine
1x Gemstone Mine
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
4x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea

[Delha]

How reliably are you able to dig up Fastbond? Without it, I'd think you have trouble reaching lethal mana. Also, how useful are Stroke/Geyser in your testing? Barring Zuran to get infi lift, it seems unlikely that you'll have mana to deck the opponent (unless you have several Cobras).

Also, do you just fold to Sanctified Dredge? I didn't see anything to remove Leyline.

[Lazer]

@Delha  Turbo Nevyn used to hold it's own back in the day winning more than it's share of tourneys back when GAT was still a fairly new deck.  You are correct though.  The deck (like it was back in the day) is fragile relying on Fastbond as I mentioned.  Often times you will get things going with Exploration - Horn of Greed and draw into either Fastbond or one of the Tutors.  More often than not you will hit a Vampirc Tutor or Imperial Seal and be forced to stack Fastbond onto the top of your deck then play a land and draw it under Horn of Greed or Gush. You don't really need the Crucible, Academy, Zorb combo to go off unless you are planning to kill with Stroke or Geyser.  Cobras will generate more than enough mana for the Kaerevek's Torch on their own.  Infact generally I've generated 35+ mana which is more than enough room to cast Kaerevek's Torch for 30 and still be able to back it up with 2 Mana Drains not to mention any Force of Wills that might be in hand.  The deck is however a bit slower than some of the faster combo decks out there like Dragon and Long but after Fastbond hits the table with Horn of Greed it is hard to stop it from going off.  It might have bit more of a reactionary controlish nature with Mana Drains maindeck to get Horn of Greed into play.  You are right about no maindeck removal.  Perhaps a lone Chain of Vapor as I mentioned above should be main deck.

[Delha]

Have you tested this at all in a modern meta? Your responses seem to be all based on historical performance, in a field of decks which no longer see play.

Offhand suggestions:

• Cut Exploration for Enlightened Tutors. Fastbond is better, might as well have more ways to get it. Also grabs Horn.
• Cut Imperial Seal for the last Enlightened. Your targets are almost always enchants/artifacts, might as well do it on EOT. Five topdeck tutors might be a bit much, but might as well give it half a chance.
• More fetches. You want to really break Cobra, and this is pretty much the easiest way to do so.
• Add a couple SDT. A heavy fetch base will make good use of them. They also help mitigate the delay on topdeck tutors.
• Move Academy, Strip, Gemstone to the side. Cut Torch & Stroke. Add 2-3x Living Wish to the main, and Emrakul in the board. It's counterproof instead of counter resistant, and for less mana.
• Jace?

[nataz]

You should talk to meatbert about this. He's done a ton of work on turbo land style decks in the new meta.

[Lazer]

@Delha  I like your style!  Thanks for the suggestions, they simply make more sense than what I had going.  Good call on Exploration being replaced with Enlightened Tutors.  IMO, five Tutors total might be a bit high so maybe -3 Exploration +2 Enlightened Tutor +1 Brainstorm, SDT or Merchant Scroll?  If we go with the white splash should we add maybe Argivian Find to compliment Regrowth in the event Fastbond gets countered?  Yawgmoth's Will is a bit limited without Rituals. 

Living Wish is a great suggestion, I do like the maindeck Gemstone Mine however, and I'm really wanting to add another but am limited with space.  Emrakul smashes face for 15, and I love that he's uncounterable.  He does require two turns to kill even though he Time Walks you giving him an almost hasted type effect.  Are we overlooking any other creatures that can kill the turn they come into play?  Shivan Hellkite is probably too expesive, but something along those lines that you can dump obsene amounts of mana into for the kill.  Is there a pump creature with haste we're overlooking?  If we do end up going that route we might want to change the deck title from Different Strokes to Who's the Boss. (;

Should there be a maindeck removal slot such as Chain of Vapor or should we outsource removal to the sideboard with Living Wishable creatures such as Monk Realist?


So here's what I'm thinking:
-3 Exploration
-1 Kaerevek's Torch
-1 Stroke of Genius
-2 Island
-1 Underground Sea
-1 Tolarian Academy
-1 Strip Mine

+2 Enlightened Tutor
+3 Living Wish
+3 Tundra
+2 SDT / Merchant Scroll / Brainstorm

Sideboard:
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Strip Mine
1x Emrakul
1x Uktabi Orangutan?
1x Monk Realist?
1x Man O' War?

More suggestions?

[ReubenG]

Are we overlooking any other creatures that can kill the turn they come into play?  Shivan Hellkite is probably too expesive, but something along those lines that you can dump obsene amounts of mana into for the kill.  Is there a pump creature with haste we're overlooking? 

Interesting deck.  I don't have much to add as I haven't built or played a turbo land deck, but for a kill creature what about Hellkite Overlord?
8/8 Flying, Trample, Haste, pumps +1/+0 for red.

[Lazer]

Hellkite Overlord?  Great idea!  I goldfished the new build a bit and it's really fun to play.  Smashing face with a hasted flying trample 35/8 dragon on turn two is wicked fun!  I also managed to Braingeyser for 75 on turn three one of the games.  I was testing Enlightened Tutor in place of Exploration and was fairly happy with the results but I think Lim-Dul's Vault does a better job as you don't have to splash another color plus it pitches to FoW.  Here's some changes that I've made and the current build I'm testing.  

DIFFERENT STROKES 1.5

Combo:
4x Horn of Greed
4x Lotus Cobra
4x Gush
1x Zuran Orb
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Fastbond

Search / Utility / Draw:
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampirc Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
2x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Regrowth
1x Brainstorm / Sensei's Divining Top

Counters:
4x Force of Will
4x Mana Drain

Kill:
3x Living Wish
1x Braingeyser

Mana:
1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Gemstone Mine
1x Island
2x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
4x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea

Sideboard:
1x Hellkite Overlord
1x Monk Realist
1x Uktabi Orangutan
1x Man-o'-War
1x Eternal Witness
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Maze of Ith
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Mystic Snake
1x Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn
1x Bazaar of Baghdad
1x Flooded Strand
?
?


Any other suggestions?  Anyone else testing this?  It's really fun to play!

EDIT:  Updated the sideboard

[serracollector]

The Tyrant that bounces stuff might be an option.  It doesn't "win now" but it could allow you to bounce your opponents board, giving you some room to breath under certain circumstances.

Also there is Steel Hellkite, the new deed on a stick from SOM.  This would act as either a kill, or as a board sweeper if you can't "go off".  Chalice for 1 seems to hurt you.

Speaking of Hellkite, have you tried Engineered Explosives?  Would be a nice card to use in case of Chalice or Sphere affects.

Other SB options/Living wish targets off the top of my head:

Sphinx
Inkwell
Maze of Ith
Sower of temptation/Memnarch (memnarch = steal opponents board if your going infinite)
Iona (the fact she is white shouldn't matter with the Cobra's)
and maybe more for fun...but....ANY of the Myojin's are also good.

Also in the SB you MIGHT wanna test Autumn's Veil.  Could help against "counterspell.dec".

Nice deck, good innovation!  Keep it up!

[Lazer]

Serracollector thanks for the additional recommendations!  Steel Hellkite and/or Memnarch are screaming to be on the sb.  Maze of Ith really needs to be there as well, as with any combo deck some games the deck just stalls and won't go off for a few turns.  Autumn's Veil could be interesting, if only it were a cantrip.  It might still warrant a sb slot though.  I came up with a few myself.  Mystic Snake and Eternal Witness should probably be there.  I updated the sb list above.  Also, in the slot maindeck I have a Brainstorm.  Should that be an SDT?  Or is Brainstorm better?

EDIT:  Another comment

I added a Flooded Strand to the sideboard as from testing I found it useful in the event that I am to stall out while I have a Horn of Greed on the table I can use Living Wish to grab Flooded Strand, play it draw a card, sac search for a land, play it draw another card hopefully drawing me into more combo pieces or more land in which to draw more cards.  So far I've used this tactic twice in my testing and it has pulled me out of a stall.  Another addition is Bazaar of Baghdad which is probably better depending on the situation. 

[serracollector]

Im glad I could help.  Also I still think Iona should be somewhere in that 75.  It simply wins games on its own.  Also, just to let you know, when you use sac and search lands you don't get a draw off the Horn.  Only for lands you play, as in from your hand.

[Lazer]

Your right, Iona needs to be in there.  She's too good to not be included.  

So, I don't get two cards from the Horn when playing fetchys?  But I do get two mana from the Cobra right?

[meadbert]

Turboland is my favorite deck.  Unfortunately I have no found a good version yet.

Here are some things to keep in mind:

Horn of Greed is a double edged swords (which draws once off a fetchland.) It awesomely combos with Gush and Fastbond, but does the same thing for your opponent!
If Gush decks stay fairly rare then you can get away with playing Horns, but if you run into Fastbond frequently you will want to get rid of it.

Crucible is insane and deserves more than one spot.

ET vs Exploration - Generally I agree with Delha that ET is better.  It has some flexibility that Exploration does not and Fastbond is so broken.  There are certain metagames where Exploration gets better.  Against Shop each are amazing with Exploration being slightly better only because it gives them one less turn 1 play Chalice@1.
Against slow control you can to win with redundancy.  Here Exploration is against good since Control will just counter the Fastbond getting a 2 for 1.
Against Combo or Combo/Control you really need to be going for Fastbond to have any chance of  racing.  Anyway, if this is a Shops + Slow Control meta then all of a sudden Exploration looks a lot better.  Honestly I have only been testing ET recently, but it occurs to me that Exploration could be okay.

Zuran Orb / Glacial Chasm / Nomad Stadium / No Combo
Those are your top options for what to do with Fastbond and Crucible of Worlds out.  In my opinion Zuran Orb is the worst option.  It gets eaten by Gorilla Shama, blown up by Keg/Explosives, shut off by Chalice@0 and shut off by Null Rod.  It is also fairly terrible on its own.
Glacial Chasm is generally bad on its own (particularly with Drains) but it does randomly totally mess up decks and if you are running Explorations it starts to make more sense since you can just sack it each turn and then replay it.
Nomad Stadium is a permanent mana source so unlike Zuran Orb it actually does something for you before the combo.  Also, you can randomly mess up Bob Control decks by recurring this guy.
For no combo I mean just have some alternate win like Living Wish->Fattie or Jace or Tinker-Fatter and just rely on 10 mana a turn and Strip Lock to go ahead and win anyway.

win card:
  It is temping to at least run Cephalid Coliseum which is on color for Drain and is just good in general.  I run it in half my Drain decks that are not Turboland.
With it you can draw like crazy with Crucible out and even use it to win by decking your opponent.
It is especially good with Gush and Crucible since once you Gush you can just discard lands so it basically becomes draw 3.

Intuitions?
Intuition has some solid uses in Turboland.  If you run Argivian Finds you can just Intuition for Fastbond + 2 Argivian Finds to get Fastbond.
You can Intuition for 3 Crucibles (if you run that many)
You can Intuition for 3 Horns.
With Fastbond + Crucible out you can Intuition for 3 I win now lands (Strip Mine, Nomad Stadium, Barbarian Ring/ Cephalid Colieum)
I do not always run Intuition because it is vulernable to graveyard hate which can be one of Turbolands weaknesses, but in a list with Drains it should be a strong consideration.

Other Disruption:
Wasteland - Obviously deserves consideration for the main and the board if you are running Crucibles.  It is very good against Dredge and Shops.
Control decks will want to fetch duals to give them access to Tutors and Blasts and Wasteland can really mess them up.
Mindtwist - In my limited experience so far, running Mindtwist with Drains and Lotus Cobra is amazing.  You can easily gets 5 or more mana up on turn 2 or 3 leading to game ending Mindtwists.

[Fortune]

Karakas in the sideboard as a living wish target against Iona and Emrakul seems good.

[xouman]

i prefer lftl over crucible. same win with zuran+fastbond, can be tutored with intuition+lands. Also fills hand with lands for brainstorm or similar.

[Delha]

i prefer lftl over crucible. same win with zuran+fastbond, can be tutored with intuition+lands. Also fills hand with lands for brainstorm or similar.

That is incorrect. LFTL cannot go infinite, since you run out of library to dredge with. It's also entirely likely that you won't have enough mana for your kill, since the mana from two out of every three lands you return is being consumed recasting Loam.

[xouman]

I agree you cannot go infinite, but with tolarian you'll likely have 20 mana with 10 activations. Sure crucible has advantages, but lftl improves intuitions, is a card less to defend, can make a great grave for will or draw a lot with cephalid colisseum/lonely sandbar.

I don't mean lftl if superior, just my choice. Of course, i can be wrong

[Delha]

I agree you cannot go infinite, but with tolarian you'll likely have 20 mana with 10 activations.

I'm not entirely convinced Academy is the answer to your problem. It's a singleton, so your odds of getting 10 activations are under 50%. Your deck is most likely going to be at 50 or fewer cards by the time you start digging, and you need 30 left to dredge 10 times.

Also, LftL decreases the odds of you resolving Will, since much of the time you'll just mill it away.

Not being vulnerable to artifact hate is certainly a big deal, but at the cost of Dredge hate slamming you harder than it would a Crucible build.

[meadbert]

Life from the Loam has huge issues on its own.

Basically they will give you a land so you must Dredge Loam.  What this means is that is that you basically payed  for topdeck tutor.

Now Strip Mine is back breaking, but if you wait till the turn after you have 3 mana to start strip locking then that is frequently too late.

Also Life from the Loam costs 2 per turn while crucible costs 3 once.

Another card that helps Life from the Loam is Bazaar of Baghdad since you can filter out extra lands.  In that case you are setting up both a draw and filter engine and a Strip lock.

That engine is powerful, but very slow.  It starts impacting the game either the turn after you Intuition or later since unless you have Fastbond or Exploration you will not be able to use both Bazaar and Strip Mine next turn.  Either you start Strip locking (which is probably too late) and Bazaar sits dead in your hand or you play Bazaar first delaying your first Strip activation till 2 turn after you Intuition.  This is way too late.

I love the Loam, Bazaar, Strip engine, but you need a tremendous amount of disruption to go for it.

Usually Intuitioning for 3 Crucibles is better.

[ducat]

I have been running turboland with banefire as the win condition since it is uncounterable and cannot be prevented if x is more than 5

[kibbe]

i'm trying something very similar to this list but kind of fundmentaly different. in my book if you can go infinite why not just win with something that can't be countered or redirected at all? or taken out of your hand? like ... a land maybe? thats right killing with a land with life loss! lol its funny but it works

here's my list(dropped black but might need it for the tutors and yag will but this is my unblack list right now. seems to goldfish by turn 4 pretty consistanly)

blue
1 a recall
2 frantic search
4 deep analsys
1 tinker
1 timewalk
2 chain vapor
1 gifts ungiven
3 force of will
1 brainstorm

artifact
4 crucible of world
2 zuron orb

green
3 crop rotation
1 living wish
1 fastbond
1 regrowth

white
3 enlightened tutor
1 balance

mana
3 elvish spirit guide
2 mox diamond
1 mana vault
1 sol ring
3 solo mox
1 lotus

4 city of brass
3 c colosium
3 u/w fetch
2 tropical island
2 island
1 tundra
1 tolarian
1 piranaha swamp (lol aww yeeeaaahhh)

mine goes for the infinte loop only. playing p.swamp sac to orb replay repeat till dead. allow for infinte pretty much everything. you could move swamp to the sb if you like though about doing it myself though it does elminate the turn 1 kill which is possible with my deck!!

main idea is to just dig like crazy. the colosiums are huge in the deck as with nothing but cruicble on the board it allows you to see 4 cards every turn(if you have threshold of course). give that to any combo deck and they will get thier peices eventually and quicker rather than later

turn 1 kill hand
lotus
crucible
e.s.g.
fast bond
z.orb
p.swamp

yup thats right you die to a land! and one that is flat out awful at that! lol, round 2?

think black is good but white need to be in the deck for e.tutor. it gets all the combo peices except the land and you can dig for once you go inifite anyway

not sure this can be made viable but it is fun.

as another point if u want u can deck them with colisium(you can target them if you want!). risky as it lets the pck the perfect had from thier deck but they have to be able to kill at instant speed to not get decked (plus it gets around g.blessing as it will be going to yard from hand not libabry)