TheManaDrain.com
November 23, 2025, 01:27:46 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: 3rd Place - Bomberman - Myriad in March  (Read 6080 times)
Englishman_in_NH
Basic User
**
Posts: 184


View Profile
« on: March 10, 2008, 07:18:05 pm »

Well, first of all here is the deck list for all to see.

Bomberman
3 Auriok Salvagers
4 Trinket Mage
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
2 Misdirection
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Repeal
2 Aether Spellbomb
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Brain Freeze
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tundra
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Polluted Delta
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring

Sideboard
3 Energy Flux
3 Spell Snare
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tormod’s Crypt
4 Leyline of Singularity
1 Guile


Nothing too strange except the sideboard singleton Guile. He was to combat the Brain Freeze kill in Oath and Tyrant Blue. As Salvager’s can make an arbitrary large storm number, it can lose to a Brain Freeze with a card draw on the stack; therefore I needed a shuffle in effect, but didn’t want to commit to 2 slots with Tinker/DSC. Therefore I had limited options. I went with Guile as it has other useful abilities, and is hard to chump block, so it is a kill condition if needed, and with Extirpates running around right now, sometimes Bomberman needs another kill. As I didn’t play against Oath and Tyrant Blue only once, I am not sure how good the card is, although when it resolved it was quite imposing.
 
Well on to the tournament:

Round 1: Louis – Tyrant Blue

Game 1 he gets a remora down first turn, but as I won the die roll, I already have a sol ring and emerald on the board. I am land heavy and am happy for him to use all his mana for remora for the first three turns. He misses a land drop and I go for a Salvager’s, which he forces. We exchange Brainstorms and I repeal a mox to dig deeper, but eventually he Show and Tells for a Tyrant, while I am unable to put anything into play for free. I cast Spellbomb and he meditates and we have a counter war with him bouncing all my blue lands. He fails to draw any spells of relevance and bounces a land a turn when he has spells and attacks with Tyrant. At 6 life I draw Trinket Mage for Aether Spellbomb and can bounce the Tyrant and ride my Trinket beats for the win. I was certainly fortunate here that he was unable to draw into any gas.

Game 2 he starts with a fetchland and I get a sapphire, emerald and fetchland into play, brainstorming away excess lands under the fetch. I cast a Salvagers and he gets Remora down, so I can’t just try to go find Lotus, as he will draw his deck with Remora. So I slowly attack with Salvagers. As I know this deck does not run waste effects I have searched out my Tundras, when he drops Back to Basics. Luckily I have one Tundra untapped and finally draw Lotus and a Spellbomb to combo off after his Remora has died of old age.

Round 2: Eli – Flash

Eli wins the die roll, and knowing he is Flash I keep a hand that should win if he doesn’t have a protected turn one kill. He drops a fetchland and brainstorms. I drop sapphire and Ancient Tomb, playing Engineered Explosives for one. He forces and I misdirect it. He merchant scrolls for chain of vapor, but doesn’t have enough mana to go off that turn. I have acquired a Brain Freeze in my hand so I go for broke. Repealing my sapphire twice and trinket mage for lotus and then a brainstorm or two, getting storm to 10, allowing for me to mill 30 cards. Of these only one sliver is left, plus a couple of hulks and street wraiths. He draws his lotus and casts Street Wraith, but I bounce it with a Spellbomb and I finally kill him with my Trinket Mage.

Game 2 I have a pre-game Leyline of Singularity and feel like I’m off to a good start, but Eli has pulled a bait and switch on me – he boarded into the Karmic Guide kill, so he hulks for a Carrion Feeder and Karmic Guide returning the Hulk to play. I try my best but lose to the Protean Hulk smashing face.

Going first in Game 3 determines which of us wins. I play Tundra and have Ancestral Recall, 2x Spell Snares, Force of Will, and 2 other lands. What do you do?  I chose to be safe, and passed the turn. Eli plays a fetchland and a Mox Sapphire, plays Flash and responds with a Summoner’s Pact. I Spell Snare the Flash and he forces and I force back. He has 2 cards in hand and he cycles Street Wraith and doesn’t draw his lone Pact of Negation left in the deck and he dies on his next upkeep.

Round 3: Chad – Turboland

Game 1, Chad gets an early Time Walk and gets a mana advantage, but I am able to counter his Ancestral, Gifts Ungiven and Intuition, whilst getting a Trinket Mage attacking with a Sensei’s Top finding me all the counters I needed. He eventually casts another Intuition for Yawgmoth’s Will, Reclaim and Regrowth. As he is tapped out, I give him the Reclaim as, even though it is cheaper to cast than Regrowth, it eliminates his draw for the turn and he only has 1 card in hand. He is able to cast Recall, Time Walk and Fastbond, but he is at 3 live and cannot stop my creatures from killing him next turn.

Chad mulligans to 6 this game. As we are developing our board position, me with brainstorm and Chad with Cephalid Coliseum, I get a Tormod’s Crypt out. At this point I do not know exactly what his kill is, but when he tries to cast Reclaim, I Crypt him so he gets nothing. Unfortunately for Chad his Strip Mine is in the graveyard, and he needs it to go infinite with his kill. As both games had been long, there were only a few minutes left, so Chad concedes rather than play out a pointless few turns when he cannot win.

Round 4: Harry – Stax/Shop Prison

I have to play this round as I am paired down, but don’t mind as with only 5 rounds 3-1-1 should still get in. In game 1 Harry mulligans to 6 and opens with City of Brass and Mana Vault. So I know what he is playing. I drop a fetchland; get an island and cast brainstorm. He drops a Workshop and a Crucible, but with no land recursion. I continue to fetch basics as I Ancestral and brainstorm until I can combo off after he casts a Memory Jar and he cracks it immediately and cannot play anything of note except a Sphere of Resistance that I force.

Game 2 he casts a first turn Sphere that I force, pitching a Drain, as my only other blue card is Energy Flux. I play island and Mox Sapphire and he is worried about a second Drain, but his Tangle Wire resolves as does a Sphere a few turns later. I finally get to 4 mana and cast Energy Flux, where his only land other than Workshop is Ancient Tomb after he wasted my Tundra. I get a second Energy Flux down, and lock up his artifacts. He casts some Gorillas and Welders, but I swords them or bounce them and then counter them. I try to get a Trinket Mage in but he Pyroblasts it. We discuss this after the game, and with Triskelions in his deck; I felt that he should have blasted one of the Fluxes. I finally get a Auriok Salvagers to stick and slowly ride it to victory.

Round 5:Duncan – Flash

We ID into the Top 8.

Top 8: Arik – Dawn of the Dead

I know he runs Tarmogoyfs and Extirpates, both of which can be frustrating if seen early, and I have only 7 creatures in my main deck. Game 1 Arik is on the play and duresses me first turn taking Engineered Explosives. I force his turn 2 Bob and drop Sensei’s Divining Top after a Trinket Mage. He drops Bazaar and starts digging, recurring Squees. He wastes one of my Tundras and duresses a mana Drain. I force another Bob and he finally resolves a Zombie Infestation along with playing a Maze of Ith. This slows my attack considerably. He swords one of my Mages, though I am able to play another. I Repeal his Zombie maker when he has 2 cards in hand to see if he will pitch them he doesn’t. At this point he is able to extirpate my Black Lotus, Engineered Explosives and Aether Spellbombs, so any Salvagers have been neutered into overcosted 2/4 s. After I counter his Zombie Infestation, he plays a Bob that I repeal so get two more damage in. At this point I am digging for Brain Freeze as he has only 15 cards left in his library. I don’t find it or any more card draw off 2 Brainstorms, so I start to shore up the ground with all my guys. At this point Arik is at 5 life and can’t attack with his Tarmogoyf as I will swing back with lethal. I force his second Tarmogoyf and can finally swing through to kill him.

As I know he runs Extirpate I bring in Guile, thinking that an extra threat may be needed. I end up being right. I keep a risky hand with sapphire and Ancient Tomb as my only mana, and Arik takes the Sapphire when he duresses me first turn and then wastes my Ancient Tomb. Things don’t look good, but other than Thoughtseizing and Extirpating my Salvagers, Arik doesn’t have much else he can do. We play draw go, while I draw much needed Islands. I trinket Mage for Lotus and play it. Then I Cast Guile off the Lotus and Repeal his Bob. He Bazaars and casts Balance, but I have a Spell Snare and unsurprisingly choose not to cast it with Guile. He casts Bob again but it is too little as he pitched the land he needed to cast a Swords with Bazaar. I win soon after.

The Top 4 decided to prize split but play it out for the glory/Waterbury Bye.

I played Brian in the top 4 and he beat me in three with UB Combo. The first two games one of us got control early and won easily, possibly due to the other having to mulligan. Game three I had to mulligan again and had a first turn Guile off a land, 2 moxes and a Lotus, but with Brian going first he had a ruby and the REB to stop it. He then ritualed out Necro and that was the game, I thought I might be able to stall him by misdirecting his Hurkyl’s Recall, but he still had enough mana for the Tendrils and went lethal with another the next turn.

Duncan and I then played for the 3rd/4th place for fun - he is playing Flash. Game 1 I am on the play and I play 1st turn Engineered Explosives, which he forces. He ponders on his first turn. I then cast Trinket Mage for my second Explosives and he scoops to me playing Salvagers with recursive Explosives stopping him from comboing and with him stuck at 2 mana.

Game 2 he gets the flash online after a few turns with counter backup and I only have 1 counter.

In game three we fight over an Explosives again that he is able to counter and then he attacks me for 8 poison counters as he has some slivers stuck in his hand and I can block some. I then draw another Explosives or Trinket Mage for one, I cannot be sure, and win the counter war, obliterating his men and killing him with Trinket Mages.



All in all I am pleased with how the deck played. I shall probably be making some tweaks to it prior to ELD’s event later this month, but I feel comfortable with the build right now. Obviously I did not play against any GAT or Oath, but I don’t feel that these matchups are as bad as some people think, if you are prepared for them. Either way this deck takes some getting used to, as there are times you need to resign yourself to playing the fish roll and trying to keep all their threats of the board and just attack for two for however many turns it takes. It may seem slow, but the card draw with Thirst back in the deck is on par with GAT – you just need to pay for your card draw, but if GAT doesn’t have Fastbond, there ability to chain spells together is not that different than Bomberman especially if you can get an early Sensei’s Top to filter through your cards more efficiently.

Thanks again to Dan and Myriad Games for hosting a wonderful event, and I hope to see people at ELD’s Black Lotus Bonanza after Easter.

Oli
Logged

Ball and Chain: Using your discarded decks since 1994.
Wagner
Basic User
**
Posts: 820


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2008, 08:39:15 pm »

Edit : My bad
« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 09:01:43 pm by Wagner » Logged
nataz
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1535


Mighty Mighty Maine-Tone


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2008, 08:50:41 pm »

nice job oli!
Logged

I will write Peace on your wings
and you will fly around the world
JanValentine00
Basic User
**
Posts: 41


Change Your Mind, Or I'll Change It For You!

mmmWeizentoast
View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2008, 10:36:35 pm »

Gratz on the finish Oli! Hopefully I'll see you at ELD's lotus tourney.
Logged
hauntedechos
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 347


"Let Fury Have The Hour, Anger Can Be Power"

viler666@hotmail.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2008, 11:22:00 pm »

Congratulations on the finish and piloting a deck that we Canadians have some affection for.

On the other hand, I've decided that I need to move to the States, as the Vintage Canadian scene is almost completely absent...I shouldn't bother actually buying cards for a scene that doesn't really exist...yes I'm angry.

Haunted.
Logged

Anusien
Adepts
Basic User
****
Posts: 3669


Anusien
View Profile
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2008, 12:40:03 am »

Congrats!  Have you considered running Gush yourself?

Do you really like Misdirection?  Every time I had it, my opponents would cast some relevant spell and I wished to hell and back it was Duress/Thoughtseize.

What is the appeal of the maindeck Brain Freeze?
Logged

Magic Level 3 Judge
Southern USA Regional Coordinator

Quote from: H.L. Mencken
The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
Negator13
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 239


jaybee216
View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2008, 01:23:58 pm »

What are the purpose of the 4 Repeals?
Logged
Zherbus
Administrator
Basic User
*****
Posts: 2406


FatherHell
View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2008, 04:05:18 pm »

Not only does it effectively Time Walk so much in the format (Oath, Spheres, Chalice, Goyfs, etc), but it can bounce his own Trinket Mages to grab more combo pieces to just plain win. That's just my speculation though.
Logged

Founder, Admin of TheManaDrain.com

Team Meandeck: Because Noble Panther Decks Keeper
Englishman_in_NH
Basic User
**
Posts: 184


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 04:57:57 pm »

Steve is correct in regards to the repeals, they also deal with null rod as well, a card that can cause problems for the combo! I built this iteration of Bomberman to be hyper consistant and have a high number of 4 ofs to give more reliable draws.

Anusien, in regards to Gush, I actually don't think that the card is that good in the format right now. Yes Gush + Fastbond with tutors is amazing, but I feel that this deck is diluted by tutoring both for its card draw and artifacts through Trinket Mage. If someone wanted to abuse the gush engine with this deck, I would seriously consider cutting the Trinket Mages and adding other possible ways to fetch artifacts - possibly using Muddle the Mixture in the Misdirection slot to be able to fetch transmute artifact. This is just off the top of my head however.

I feel that Bomberman has a choke point on 3 mana and rather than trying to avoid that problem, I've tried to answer it by running Ancient Tombs to accelerate the Trinket Mages and Thirsts. As long as I can cast a Thirst or Trinket for every Gush, I feel that I am in good shape against GAT or Oath. It is the fastbond that is the problem, hence 2 E.Es, 4 repeals plus counterspells to try and avoid it being a factor.

In terms of Misdirection, in disruption slots 9 and 10, I feel that it is the best card when you are running the two colour build. If you are splahing black as well as I have done before, I feel that duress/thoughtseize - though I prefer duress if better. However you go with what is in colour and right now I'm pushing consistancy and dependability as I'm expecting a lot of Oath/GAT and Shop Aggro.

The maindeck Brain Freeze is both to have a potential counter to "Infinite Mana" either in the mirror or Tyrant decks (Oath and Blue) With 4 maindeck Repeals and Trinket Mage fetching Lotus it is also easy to get up to 7-10 storm, which against certain decks can remove enough threats from the deck to neuter it. I also used Rich Shay's thinking of using it as a counter to top deck tutors, which I was able to use a couple of times in the tournament. In addition to all this, it is sometimes necessary to Brain Freeze yourself when you have Salvagers on the board and are likely to lose next turn, so that you can hope to mill your Lotus and or an artifact answer that you need.

This was probably a bit of a ramble as I'm writing as i think of stuff, so I may reply again later.

Keep up the questions and comments as there is not a dedicated Bomberman thread, and I'm always open to suggestions or opinions, though I'm wont to throw stuff in my deck for the hell of it.
Logged

Ball and Chain: Using your discarded decks since 1994.
Myriad Games
Master of Mountains
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1249

So Many Games - So Little Time - So Start Playing!


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2008, 05:03:54 pm »

Thanks for the report, Oli and congrats on another great finish!
Logged

Myriad Games
Your Friendly Professional Game Stores
1-888-8MYRIAD
www.MyriadGames.com
www.Facebook.com/MyriadGames
CHOZO
Basic User
**
Posts: 55


Oranges taste good.

sheepoflunacy
View Profile
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2008, 09:29:47 pm »

Why doesn't someone make a bomberman thread? I feel it definitely deserves one... Anyways, are there any tricks, or what ever, you can do with the deck that aren't as obvious?
Logged
MrJolly
Basic User
**
Posts: 49


Goblin Ron

AC1Phoenix
View Profile
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2008, 09:52:37 pm »

Congrats on the finish Oli!
Logged
Englishman_in_NH
Basic User
**
Posts: 184


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2008, 10:22:56 pm »

Of the top of my head, one trick that not everyone is aware of right away is that with Salvagers and Lotus, if you have access to Sensei's Top and E.E. you can draw your deck.

Set E.E. to 1 and then tap to draw with Top. Then in response blow up E.E. Both artifacts go to the graveyard and you draw a card. Rinse and repeat as needed.

This also works with Repeal TOp to draw 2 cards and put Top in your hand for 1U.

Other than that with this build it is mostly about knowing when to go aggro with the combo and when to control with the counters and card draw. Basically lots of testing / practice.

In regards to why there isn't a thread on Bomberman, I believe it is mostly because not too many people are playing it right now. Were it to return into favour I'm sure there would be a thread on it. Feel free to post here or pm me if you have general questions or questions on the interactions or this build of the deck.

Also thanks to everyone who has offered thanks.

Oli

Logged

Ball and Chain: Using your discarded decks since 1994.
CHOZO
Basic User
**
Posts: 55


Oranges taste good.

sheepoflunacy
View Profile
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2008, 03:10:28 am »

Repeal seems to be a very useful card! Also, why do you choose to play leyline of singularity over leyline of the void? I'm assuming they would be used for the same matchups?
Logged
Phele
Basic User
**
Posts: 562


Tom Bombadil


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2008, 04:22:51 am »

Very nice list and very consistant. Congrats on your great perfomance.

A couple of questions:

- Why the second Ancient Tomb over Tolarian Acadamy. You are playing tons of artifacts, so it should be possible to ramp the mana production of Acadamy to the same degree of Ancient Tomb. Its as vulnerable to Wasteland as Tomb is and produces blue, but you might prefer that you can rely on the two mana production of Tomb.

- Had you considered running Meddling Mages instead of the Spell Snares, or did the higher mana investment made the cut? I would board Spell Snares mainly against Flash, GAT and Oath – all matchups where Meddling Mage also can shine – especially together with Repeal. And Meddling Mage could help out in other matchups as well, like UB combo of all sort, where Spell Snare at best is soso.

- You already mentioned that you don't have space for the two cards Tinker and Colossus. But in my eyes it is really worth the investment, and I play both of them main. Colossus could serve as the same function as Guile and is a great out against pure aggro strategies like Goblins and RG Beats. And Tinker also serves as another tutor for Lotus in some cases.

Again: Good job and nice list!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 04:29:47 am by Phele » Logged

Tom Bombadil is a merry fellow; Bright blue his jacket is, and his boots are yellow.

Free Illusionary Mask!!
Englishman_in_NH
Basic User
**
Posts: 184


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2008, 04:57:48 pm »

In regards to the Leyline choice. There is only a small difference in function between the two and they serve to battle the same matches - Flash and Ichorid. However Singularity both pitches to Force when you have multiples which you obviously don't want to cast  Very Happy  It also can be hard cast which can occasionally come into play. In the black splash version i would consider Void over Singularity as the ability to be hard cast is much greater.

In terms of the Tolarian, I think that it is just an artifact of me having been stuck with it and a 1 mana artifact in hand too many times and having to mulligan. With Tomb and such you get a guaranteed amount of mana. It comes done to trading the times you get broken Academys vs the consistancy of always having 2 mana with Tomb. I've often found Academy is either a Legendary Island or it taps for so much mana it doesn't matter and I have to find a mana sink. If I drop the Tombs from the deck, however, the Academy is one of the lands that comes back in its place.

In regards to Meddling Mage, you are correct that the extra mana investment - especially the white mana has caused problems in testing. It can be a great boon if it comes down, however, most decks tend to board some sort of creature removal / bounce as a strategy against Bomberman so I have gone back to a much more control oriented list. This list is much closer in play style to what I thought of as "Control Salvagers" - one of my original builds of Bomberman that eschewed Trinket MAges and ran much more control and just used Salvagers as the kill in addition to Tinker DSC.

Meddling Mage is certainly a viable sideboard card, and I'm sure one that I will use again, just like Mindcensor, however I feel that it is less than optimal right now, as you must win the tempo war using Snares and Repeals to gain a subtle advantage over the Gush decks. Spell Snare also factors into why I run Misdirection as against Flash - of which I believe there were 5 decks at this tournament - as it allows for a greter chance for 2 counterspells against Flash if you go first post board.

I agree that Tinker DSC is probably the better option than Guile, however I like to tinker (no pun intended) around with the deck in a couple of slots. THis has lead me to play Magus of the Future, Phyrexian Dreadnaught plus Trickbind, and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir along with I'm sure many odd choices that I can not remember at this time. In short I'm known for testing off the wall ideas in my lists. If I where to take this list to a larger event ala SCG or Waterbury, I would probably go the DSC route, however at a local tournament when everyone already knows what deck archetype you are going to play, it is the few odd choices that people don't expect that can swing the crucial games on occasion. Guile being easily hardcast in this deck was one such decision, and it payed off in my top 8 match as I'm not sure if I would have won game 2 were it not for Guile in play, he certainly did the bulk of the damage.

In conclusion, most of the suggestions people have made are certainly viable strategies and ones I have used at one time either in a tournament or in testing. I may get around to writing a guide/primer - though I'm loathe to call it that because it would only be my opinions on the deck, but I feel that there are about 20 ish core cardslots for Bomberman and about another 20-30 that rely on metagaming the deck and/or person prefernce and playstyle. I tend to like to play control decks, so my builds often have 9+ counters or duress effects plus card draw. However I feel that there is an aggro version using Salvagers, Trinket Mage, Mincensor and maybe Meddling Mage plus Force and Daze as the counters that plays very much like fish, probably using more than 2 Tombs main. As this is not my predominant playstyle though it is not a version that I have tested thoroughly, but if someone who is well schooled in fish style decks were to test it, they may find that it tests much better than my above list. It is sometimes for that reason that I try to persuade people not to copy my list - not because I want to be the only one playing it, far from it, I would love for someone to do well with a list I put together - but because my lists can be a little odd and off from the norm and so hard to understand the line of play if it the first time testing Bomberman.

Again thanks for the kind words, and sorry again for the rambling, I seemt o be good at that too!  Very Happy
Logged

Ball and Chain: Using your discarded decks since 1994.
ELD
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 1462


Eric Dupuis

ericeld1980
View Profile
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2008, 05:17:06 pm »

Congrats Oli,

With the new instant speed Flash kill, do you plan on keeping the Leyline of Singularity?  Even if only some players switch, I would think it's enough reason to go with Leyline of the Void instead.  It is possible that the standard bomberman hate (Needle, Crypt, Spellbomb) would be enough to get the job done, but it seems unlikely. 
Logged

unrestrict: Freedom
Englishman_in_NH
Basic User
**
Posts: 184


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2008, 01:08:08 am »

Given that I had pretty much decided against Leylines in general for the board, I think I will stick with Needle and Crypts plus Spellbomb, although I am reconsidering Trickbind / Stifle right now.

The only reason i went with Letline at the last event was that I knew that there were 5 Flash decks there prior to deck reg, and knowing that that was at tleast 25-30% of the metagame, I had to audible my sideboard a little.

I think at least for the future I'll stick with my original intentions as Leyline was not as useful as the other sideboard casrds in the games i played against Flash.

Oli
Logged

Ball and Chain: Using your discarded decks since 1994.
CwaM
Basic User
**
Posts: 39

cwamm@hotmail.com
View Profile
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2008, 06:43:49 am »

Hardcasting Leyline of the Void isn't that hard in the deck with 4 trinkets.
Logged
Englishman_in_NH
Basic User
**
Posts: 184


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2008, 07:28:21 pm »

As much as Hardcasting Leyline of the Void is doable if you fetch your Lotus with Trinket Mage, I feel that not getting Tormod's Crypt or Pithing Needle is a big mistake. At best you can cast Trinket Mage turn 1 and then Leyline turn 2. And that is with an artifact heavy mana hand - not always likely. If Ichorid gets a therapy in the meantime you just fetched something useless.
   It is not that Leyline of the Void is wrong for the deck, it's just that for me personally, I hate to have 4 cards in my deck that all they can really do past turn 0 is pitch to Thirst for Knowledge, plus they do not even help my pitch counters. But as I said that is my personal prefernece and I know of plenty of people who run Leyline of the Void in non-black decks as they feel it is required to deal with Flash and Ichorid.
   Having played a few games against Flash I can say that having as many relevant counterspells available early is just as good a response. For everytime they get the first turn kill with double counter backup there will will be times they have to go for broke and lose to a pact trigger.

Oli
Logged

Ball and Chain: Using your discarded decks since 1994.
CwaM
Basic User
**
Posts: 39

cwamm@hotmail.com
View Profile
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2008, 11:37:19 am »

I'm not telling you have to play leylines, I'm just saying that the argue "not hardcastable" is not that true
(also your example of turn 1 trinket , turn 2 leyline, only stands when you draw leyline on your 1st draw step, otherwise you can have a turn 0 move Wink )
Leyline against Flash is _very_ bad.
Logged
LotusHead
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 2785


Team Vacaville


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2008, 03:37:57 pm »

Of the top of my head, one trick that not everyone is aware of right away is that with Salvagers and Lotus, if you have access to Sensei's Top and E.E. you can draw your deck.

Set E.E. to 1 and then tap to draw with Top. Then in response blow up E.E. Both artifacts go to the graveyard and you draw a card. Rinse and repeat as needed.

I certainly didn't know this. Thanks for sharing!
Logged

Englishman_in_NH
Basic User
**
Posts: 184


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2008, 08:29:39 pm »

@ LotusHead:  No problem, something I picked up when someone asked me why I didn't do that to win when I ended up digging for Spellbomb instead about a year ago.

Another counterintuitive play is with Salvagers in play is to Brain Freeze yourself if you feel you will lose soon, as it gives you a chance of hitting the lotus and/or one of your disruption artifacts. It did win me a game, and while it isn't a great play it is something to be aware of for that once in a lifetime chance to steal a game!

@CwaM: Fair enough, if that is your view. I personally feal that if I have to have my Lotus or Jet plus Petal to cast something in my deck, then it as close to uncastable as matters to me. Maybe I'm in the minority, but that is just how I perceive it. For example I would not play a card that was off color for my lands even if it effectively won me the game against a deck. Now I know Leyline is great due to its turn 0 play, but I feel that it is not needed in a blue centric deck that does not run black with options such as Tormod's Crypt, Pithing Needle and Spell Snare being able to deal with Flash as well as I feel is needed. On top of that, you have the possibilities for Stifle effects and Swords to Plowshares as well if needed. In terms of Ichorid decks, I feel that they will err towards mana builds right now, as I feel they are more rigid, and allow for fewer losses to oops, no Bazaar sorry you lose. These builds rightly don't fear the hate as much due to Chain of Vapor.

Regardless of that, thanks for the feedback, keep it coming, it is great to hear different peoples views on a deck that is not played as much, but I feel has a chance against any deck in the format.

Oli
Logged

Ball and Chain: Using your discarded decks since 1994.
unicoerner
Basic User
**
Posts: 47


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2008, 12:45:07 pm »

At times, where everyone runs Graveyard hate in the side and some decks even main wouldn´t there be better choices than Bomberman. Of course there are.
But my point is, how do we play against decks with extiprtae, Leyline or Crypt? we try to win our game with Lotus/Spellbomb, but both will hit the grave before we can go off.
I tired to squeeze some Jotun Grunts in...
Logged

every critic is good critic
GUnit
Basic User
**
Posts: 169


thingstuff@hotmail.com
View Profile Email
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2008, 01:54:45 pm »

I recently played bomberman to a second place finish at a 20ish person tournament and I really didn't combo out THAT often. A lot of my kills were from salvager / trinket beats. I also had alternate win conditions in tinker -> colossus and empty the warrens, which came in handy quite a lot. I don't think you need to be too worried about yard hate. Salvagers is still an excellent card in a deck filled with nasty tutorable, reusable artifacts, even if your lotus gets removed from the game.
Logged

-G UNIT

AKA Thingstuff, Frenetic
carl
Full Members
Basic User
***
Posts: 98


22029849 msn@zongo.be
View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2008, 01:56:14 pm »

Hello,

Thanks for the report and congrats on your finish.

I have a few questions:

Why not play Kataki over Energy Flux in the board?

With so many Merchant Scroll around, why not play Mindcensor main or at least in the sideboard?

I also think Needle is great against a lot of good deck (except Oath and GAT), so why not include them at least in the board?

Thanks for your time.

--
Carl
Logged

Englishman_in_NH
Basic User
**
Posts: 184


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2008, 04:42:44 pm »

Carl,

In my opinion Kataki is nowhere near as good as Energy Flux. If Kataki made the artifacts cost 2 or was not legendary, then I would run them instead. Also most shop decks I play against run Trike - I'd rather not let them have an answer, for that matter duplicant is an answer too. The only answers to Energy Flux, is either REB effects or sideboarding in answers on the assumption that I am playing Flux. I also feel that unlike Fish decks, Bomberman decks are set up to cast 3 drop spells either with mana ramp from Trinkets or through use of lands such as Ancient Tomb, and as such I prefer Energy Flux.

Mindcensor is a great card, and one I have run in the past, however, at the time of the tournament I had wanted a more controlling version of the deck, Mindcensor replaces a few of the control or card draw slots when I try to make room for it, and as such I had cut it for now. It is certainly a viable choice in a merchant scroll meta, however, as many people in my meta had adapted to Mindcensor, I felt that they were playing around it anyway, therefore I could have the bluff of 2W open be more useful than the card itself, whilst having other cards in my deck that helped against other mathups.

Needle is great, however, as you stated it is terrible against Oath and GAT, the two decks that were at the forefront of the meta at the time. I went through all my matchups that I anticipated and found that I was either oversideboarding already, or just didn't have cards to desideboard to make a matchup better after board. There are definitely times where Needle is great, unfortunately I feel that they are not against the top tier decks you may expect to face. Having said that, with the new Painter's Combo seeming to be strong, it may be time for the Needles to find their way back into the deck.

In conclusion, Bomberman is highly customisable, and can be build as a more aggro version, to a more control version. All the cards you mention are certainly playable in different builds and dependy on different metas, however, I felt that my choices as outlined above were correct for this one specific meta.

I hope this helps, and certainly let me know if you have anymore questions.

Oli
Logged

Ball and Chain: Using your discarded decks since 1994.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.123 seconds with 19 queries.