{UW Control}

[John Jones]

Well, I am not new to magic at all but somewhat new to type one. I kinda know the format and since the restrictions I built a deck.

So far it has beaten on mws (so its not really winning but its the best testing I have)
- Belcher (and in real life)
- Dragon
- some type of stax deck

Lost to
- Grim long (I think)
- Belcher ( a few times)
- Ichorid once (only played one game)

anyway here is the list, the SB needs work

// Lands
    2 Plains
    1 Library of Alexandria
    4 Island
    2 Hallowed Fountain
    4 Tundra
    4 Flooded Strand

    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Chrome Mox

// Creatures
    3 Exalted Angel
    4 Meddling Mage

// Draw
    1 Ponder
    1 Ancestral Recall
    3 Mystic Remora
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Fact or Fiction
    3 Thirst for Knowledge
    1 Time Walk

Control
    1 Mystical Tutor
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mana Drain
    1 Balance
    3 Stifle
    2 Moat
    2 Echoing Truth
    2 Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Brain Freeze
SB: 1 Stifle
SB: 2 Moat
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Kataki, War's Wage 

Let me know what you guys think

[John Jones]

Hey updated list.
I played against Ichorid and R/G aggro last night and beat it each twice (played best of three).
I dropped remora and thirst as well, they were both not efficient enough and added AK's + intuition package.

// Lands
    2 Plains
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Library of Alexandria
    4 Island
    4 Tundra
    2 Hallowed Fountain

    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Chrome Mox

// Creatures
    3 Exalted Angel
    4 Meddling Mage

// Draw
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    2 Intuition
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Ponder
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Brainstorm

    4 Force of Will
    4 Mana Drain
    1 Balance
    1 Time Walk
    3 Stifle
    2 Moat
    2 Echoing Truth
    2 Swords to Plowshares

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Stifle
SB: 2 Moat
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Kataki, War's Wage



Now, I am told I will get raped by 9sphere/ws aggro. What can I do for that?

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Now, I am told I will get raped by 9sphere/ws aggro. What can I do for that?

Add a few copies Hurkyl's Recall or Rebuild between your main deck and sideboard. One of the issues you may run into is that simply bouncing their artifacts might not be sufficient because your deck doesn't have a quick finisher, like Tendrils or Tinker + DSC.

Merchant Scroll might also be helpful to have as well.

[John Jones]

Now, I am told I will get raped by 9sphere/ws aggro. What can I do for that?

Add a few copies Hurkyl's Recall or Rebuild between your main deck and sideboard. One of the issues you may run into is that simply bouncing their artifacts might not be sufficient because your deck doesn't have a quick finisher, like Tendrils or Tinker + DSC.

Merchant Scroll might also be helpful to have as well.

Thanks, I originally had Tinker collossus in here, however it counteracted with the Moats. Merchant scroll should be in here and I will probably cut it for FoF.

[Zombie Shakespeare]

Thanks, I originally had Tinker collossus in here, however it counteracted with the Moats. Merchant scroll should be in here and I will probably cut it for FoF.

I wouldn't recommend cutting FoF for Scroll as FoF is a strong card to get with Scroll to really press your advantage midgame. You may want to test Scroll in either a Stifle or Moat slot.

[John Jones]

Alright here is the new list. It is working pretty well. I just beat U/R Painters Sevant.

// mana 19 + 4 fetch (23 total)
    2 Plains
    4 Tundra
    1 Library of Alexandria
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Hallowed Fountain
    4 Island
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Chrome Mox

// Creatures (8)
    1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
    3 Exalted Angel
    4 Meddling Mage

// Draw (13)
    1 Time Walk
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Ponder
    2 Intuition
    1 Fact or Fiction
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Ancestral Recall

Control (16)
    1 Balance
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mana Drain
    3 Moat
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Echoing Truth

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Moat
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 3 Stifle
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Kataki, War's Wage

[credmond]

You might consider running enlightened tutor and a single isochron scepter. As a singleton scepter seems nice in the deck. You run a lot of cards that can be imprinted on a scepter and once you do that should be effectively game over. This also leads to thinking about  orim's chant as a proactive way to handle combo decks that otherwise could give the deck problems since your deck seems weak until you get to turn 3.

Meddling mages are better in sideboard imho once you know what you are up against. Missing with a meddling mage is really really bad for this deck and if you are going to use them you need to make sure you know the other deck inside and out.

Also, running enlightened tutor lets you drop moat count to 1 which is good since versus a lot of decks moat is a dead draw.

[John Jones]

You might consider running enlightened tutor and a single isochron scepter. As a singleton scepter seems nice in the deck. You run a lot of cards that can be imprinted on a scepter and once you do that should be effectively game over. This also leads to thinking about  orim's chant as a proactive way to handle combo decks that otherwise could give the deck problems since your deck seems weak until you get to turn 3.

Meddling mages are better in sideboard imho once you know what you are up against. Missing with a meddling mage is really really bad for this deck and if you are going to use them you need to make sure you know the other deck inside and out.

Also, running enlightened tutor lets you drop moat count to 1 which is good since versus a lot of decks moat is a dead draw.

Well, I will not drop the moat count to 1. That card is busted, and while most of my t1 friends don't believe me everytime I have dropped it and had it in play I have won the game. Most storm decks that I have seen now rely on Empty the warrens. Ichorid can't fly. I don't believe fish fly. Workshop aggro doesn't fly. Matchups where moat is completely dead are Stax, Most oath decks, Sometimes Belcher (if they go belch kill not ETW), and Tendrils based combo.

Now Meddling mage will never go to board. Chances are in the first 1-2 turns you know what they are playing and if you don't, you shouldn't be playing.
Isochron scepter is bad in this format. There are way too many instant speed artifact hosers that you would have to play around and it is simply not worth it.
You did lead me to one very interesting card, that being Orims chant. I think I might now include Chant in board.

[credmond]

Regarding my comment to reduce moat count . . .

I stand by my suggestion to keep the moat count at 1.
I agree with you that moat is an under-appreciated card and you will be able to steal a lot of games with it, but those games won't be the ones you should be worrying about..
If this is just a deck you play with your friends or your local meta is somehow overrun with aggro then I can agree with 3x moat. But the card just doesn't hit the top decks like Slaver, Long Combo, Oath, or Drain Tendrils.

With any deck and especially this kind of deck you want to avoid dead draws. You couldn't even put two moats in play if you wanted to since its a world enchantment. You are better off running more tutors (a black splash for the black tutors maybe) than adding copies of a card that don't improve in multiples and that don't hit the top decks. Running enlightened tutor is like running an extra copy of it but giving you the flexibility of nabbing something else should you actually be facing a top deck where moat is a dead draw (which in tournaments is likely).

But consider a world where Moat does actually hit the top decks. Then of course leave the moat count at 3 or more. Maybe this is true among your buddies or your local meta, but it's not true at the highest level tournaments.


Regarding my suggestion to try a singleton Isochron Scepter . . .

With this deck it would be a mistake to tutor for or play Isochron scepter too early (i.e. without a hand full of counters to make sure it stays in play). But grabbing Isochron Scepter at the right moment, and making it stick, delivers the coupe de grace from which the opponent will most likely never recover.

Isochron Scepter is just a suggestion. The deck needs something to go for once its reached a game state where it has the upper hand and wants to keep the opponent down for the count. In the old Weissman deck "The Deck" that deck would go for Disrupting Scepter. Other options might include top + counterbalance. If you add a black splash that card could be mind twist. Those cards, like Isochron scepter, will give you the ability to shut down the opponent completely.

[John Jones]

After thinking about it, you might be right. I think I will test out the dropping moat count. One thing I am going to add though is a singelton Serenity

I think my changes might look like -2 moat +1 E tutor and +1 Serenity. I will also try out the Scepter but my predictions are that it will be sub par.

[ipconfig]

From your latest list i cut 1 more moat so the total number is 1.
Also the enlightened tutor gave me more opportunities like your allready used serenity, but i included also:
+1 Mystic Remora
+1 Back to Basic
+1 Tormods Crypt
+1 Energy Flux
-1 Meddling Mage
-1 Moat
-1 Echoing Truth
-1 Chrome Mox

i also replaced the Mana Crypt with Sol Ring

i think i have now more flexibility for unknown decks..

Shopdecks don't like the back to basic, Serenity and energy flux.
Ichorids don't like back to basic and crypt
and the mystic Remora is against other controll or combodecks or discarddecks like those with 4 duress, 3 thoughtseize...

So far from testing i can say that i like the single Remora very much.
I would also like to have space for timetwister since i often had situations where i was far away from having the right answer to something, or my best answer allready was played...
(Like tormods crypt)
maybe energyflux is not needed with Serenity but this is something i have to test further, since Serenity is a onetimebomb and energyflux is a constant thread

From the games i allready played i found out that the meddling Mage isn't that kind of mustplay, that you need 4 of them. I mean its nice to have him but its not needed. He isn't that versatile answer to a number of decks.

Also the manabase is some kind of shaggy.
Somehow i would like to have room for more mana. (I have to say that i didn't even tested the version with Chrome Mox, since i don't like this card in a controll deck)
Also i think the one extra mana you win from the Manacrypt isn't that worth loosing random life, so the solring is doing his job fine.

[John Jones]

Also the manabase is some kind of shaggy.
Somehow i would like to have room for more mana. (I have to say that i didn't even tested the version with Chrome Mox, since i don't like this card in a controll deck)
Also i think the one extra mana you win from the Manacrypt isn't that worth loosing random life, so the solring is doing his job fine.

Mana vault is what you're thinking of.
Mana crypt is a 0 costing artifact that adds 2 colorless.

[ipconfig]

No its Mana Crypt what i mean...

Mana Crypt gives you a win of 2 Mana.
Sol Ring just of one
(the moment they are played)

[metalfan06]

first off,ipconfig is right, Crypt requires u to flip a coin everyturn with a 50/50 chance of takeing 3 damage, in a deck designed to run fairly slow a crypt could really hurt you a few turns into the game.

secondly, have u thought about tinker/platinum angel? it gets around moat unlike darksteel, and puts your aponent into quite a predicimant because they not only have to try and get rid of pesky meddling mages, there efforts are worthless if this guy is not delt with fast.

[John Jones]

first off,ipconfig is right, Crypt requires u to flip a coin everyturn with a 50/50 chance of takeing 3 damage, in a deck designed to run fairly slow a crypt could really hurt you a few turns into the game.

secondly, have u thought about tinker/platinum angel? it gets around moat unlike darksteel, and puts your aponent into quite a predicimant because they not only have to try and get rid of pesky meddling mages, there efforts are worthless if this guy is not delt with fast.

I have not thought about that. That also seems better than tinker colossus. I could also Tinker Triskleavus.

And ipconfig you're right, I just didn't under stand what you meant.

[John Jones]

updated list

Alright here is the new list. It is working pretty well. I just beat U/R Painters Sevant.

// mana 19 + 4 fetch (23 total)
    2 Plains
    4 Tundra
    1 Library of Alexandria
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Wasteland
    1 Strip mine
    4 Island
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Chrome Mox

// Creatures (8)
    1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
    3 Exalted Angel
    3 Meddling Mage
    1 Platnium Angel

// Draw (13)
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Tinker
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Ponder
    2 Intuition
    1 Fact or Fiction
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Ancestral Recall

Control (16)
    1 Balance
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mana Drain
    3 Moat
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Echoing Truth

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Moat
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Echoing Truth
SB: 3 Stifle
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 Kataki, War's Wage



So after a lot of testing I have come to a few conclusions

Platnuim Tinker is really good.
Mana Crypt, while the damage could get in the way is a way I can morph angel turn 1 and flip it turn 2.
I tried the Enlightend package and I found it just to be Bad. Cutting down to 1 moat was annoying because I couldn't intuiton for it, whenever I drew the serenity, I thought why isn't this Kataki.

Things I am currently testing

Nullstone Gargoyle instead of platnium.
I want to test out Mystic Remora again, I have a feeling that I might want it to be a 3x in the board.
I also want to test out Sol Ring again and see if the turn 2 morphed angel is worth the life.

[Anusien]

Why would you play this deck instead of Bomberman?  Bomberman has a much better matchup against Ichorid and a far more resilient draw engine, as well as the ability to combo off earlier.  I am especially curious because it seems like all the trinkets are really good right now with the rise of CS.

[Troy_Costisick]

4 Moat?  I agree that it can be a game stopper, but isn't that just a few too many?  You're running White, so why not add an Enlightened Tutor and give yourself a little bit more flexibility?

Peace,

-Troy

[John Jones]

4 Moat?  I agree that it can be a game stopper, but isn't that just a few too many?  You're running White, so why not add an Enlightened Tutor and give yourself a little bit more flexibility?

Peace,

-Troy

If you read, I had the moat down to 1 with E tutor main. I found that when I needed moat, I could not get to it. Also, the Moat in the board will more than likely not be there. I just needed to fill it with a slot.

Why would you play this deck instead of Bomberman?  Bomberman has a much better matchup against Ichorid and a far more resilient draw engine, as well as the ability to combo off earlier.  I am especially curious because it seems like all the trinkets are really good right now with the rise of CS.

Isn't their draw engine thirst for knowledge and like 2 spellbombs? I will not play bomberman because I don't like it and I want to play Moat in my deck because it is amazing. Also, I fail to see how this deck has a worse matchup against ichorid. I was doing some more playtesting and it seems that unless Ichorid goes retarded turn 1, this deck can most likely pull out a win.