Post-Shards archetypes ?

[daverockstar]

so, is there any reasonable expectation for what to see post-shards in competitive T2?

I'm thinking it's gonna break down something like:

  {G}5 Color Quick N' Toast
  Bant Quick N' Toast
  White Weenie with Elsepth/ Kithkin with Ajani
  Faeries (albeit, quite neutered on card draw)
  Some sort of Sarkhan Firesesque G/R aggro
  Red, but starkly powered down with the loss of low-end curve creatures/skred


what else are people thinking?

what are people thinking will be solid White Weenie builds (non-kith)?

[ReAnimator]

I think you can add tokens and GB elves to the list of things that were playable before that don't loose anything too crippling. I would also think some sort of UWB revilark/mannequin deck should still be viable.

[daverockstar]

I think you can add tokens and GB elves to the list of things that were playable before that don't loose anything too crippling. I would also think some sort of UWB revilark/mannequin deck should still be viable.

I hardly think that the loss of Slaughter Pact, Tarmogoyf and not to mention the Mana fixing of Urborg.

Also -- Pendelhaven is better, and a little more solid/important than you're thinking.

It's not neutered at all - but without a solid 2 drop that wrecks shop like 'goyf - it's hardly the contender it once was.

[ReAnimator]

? they lost urborg but gained 4 filter lands, how is that a loss? seems like a break even to me.
The loss of pendlehaven hurts fae more than elves, elves only had 5 targets for it.

The loss of goyf isn't that important either, sure it hurts but you still have bramblewood paragon or wolf skull to fill that aggressive slot, not saying this is the best solution, maybe something else entirely would fit the bill.

[Tin_Mox5831]

Prediction: Esper Charm will be a major player in the new Standard. It's everything Blue mages wanted Consult The Necrosages to be (i.e. Instant) and it can be a Demystify to boot.

[Matt]

RIP red deck, unless they reprint Magus of the Moon in 11th ed. Blood Knight and Keldon Marauders can be replaced, and Keldon Megaliths wasn't really that important, but without Magus there's basically no reason NOT to play a 3+color deck.

[Anusien]

RIP red deck, unless they reprint Magus of the Moon in 11th ed. Blood Knight and Keldon Marauders can be replaced, and Keldon Megaliths wasn't really that important, but without Magus there's basically no reason NOT to play a 3+color deck.

Fulminator Mage.

There was a growing trend throughout the Nationals season to drop Magus of the Moon for Boggart Ram Gang anyway.  The real loss is Blood Knight and Magus of the Scroll.  Stigma Lasher helps a little.

Also it's not clear to me that it's worth distinguishing GWU Control from 5C Control.

Also Reveillark is likely to hang around.

[Matt]

RIP red deck, unless they reprint Magus of the Moon in 11th ed. Blood Knight and Keldon Marauders can be replaced, and Keldon Megaliths wasn't really that important, but without Magus there's basically no reason NOT to play a 3+color deck.

Fulminator Mage.

There was a growing trend throughout the Nationals season to drop Magus of the Moon for Boggart Ram Gang anyway.  The real loss is Blood Knight and Magus of the Scroll.  Stigma Lasher helps a little.

Also it's not clear to me that it's worth distinguishing GWU Control from 5C Control.

Also Reveillark is likely to hang around.

Fulminator Mage <<<<<<< Magus

I mean, really now. Killing one land and losing your 2/2 <<<<< killing all the lands and keeping your 2/2.

[Norm4eva]

All the charms are really really playable.  I know there's been a bunch of series of charms in different blocks so I might be forgetting some, but so far as I can tell this is probably the most viable series.  After saying that though, Grixis looks like ass.  There's going to be lots of Bant, lots of Esper, lots of anything that can still play Chameleon Colossus.  I think Mirrorweave Kithkin doesn't go away, but doesn't really gain anything.
There's a real 'pre-con' feeling to the format, which I don't mind at all since I'm no kind of deckbuilder, but the weird 'sharding' of the colors seems like it prevents a lot of going outside the box.  The manabases make themselves, but pretty much everything good (ie not painful) is CIPT.  If there is a deck which can abuse Root Maze, it might represent a meta hoser.

[LordHomerCat]

The manabases make themselves, but pretty much everything good (ie not painful) is CIPT.  If there is a deck which can abuse Root Maze, it might represent a meta hoser.

This, I don't get.  If all the good lands CIPT already, then Root Maze doesn't do anything because all the control decks have basically root mazed themselves already.

[Norm4eva]

Balllllls.  I always forget that RM is just artifacts and lands.
Meh nevermind that then!
Although to be fair, it won't just be the control decks - all the new contenders are going to play shardlands.  That's a big reason why, imo, even though the prospect of going Birds -> Rhox War Monk -> Stoic, or Birds -> THoctar/Thrinax -> Colossus looks tasty, everyone's got like half an extra turn to have their answers.  This is another big reason why I think Mirrorweave Kithkin is still a big contender - even though there are these would-be hosers like Stoic Angel, Kithkin doesn't have a land base that hinders their capacity to race.

[Anusien]

Mogg Fanatic is still in the environment, making this Birds sort of draw less exciting.  Plus you tend to have problems when the one big guy you were putting all your plans into gets Thoughtseized or Shriekmaw.

[Tin_Mox5831]

Well, if everyone (Myself included) is playing at least a turn behind in the early game due to CIPT lands, why not overhaul Doran? The deck lost Tarmogoyf and not much else, and it can create a huge board presence before X-Color Control's answers are even available.

[TopSecret]

I don't play Standard,
but wouldn't RB Tokens get boosted up even more,
since it just got Goblin Assault as slightly worse Bitterblossoms #5-8?

It seems like that'd make it worth mentioning.

[Norm4eva]

I've been talking it over with the local guys and I don't think it's even worth thinking about BR.  Insofar as Shards is concerned, basically Jund and Grixis are so so bad.  More generally though, Standard lost Bogardan Hellkite and that hurts a lot.
And the Bitterblossom strategy is finding an adversary in Realm Razer.  Drop some men and resolve that guy and the Bitterblossom player sort of loses to themselves.