[Results, Lists and Pics] The Final Cary Cup!

[RaleighNCTourneys]

Announcement thread: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=36003.0

The Final Cary Cup - 20 Proxy Vintage in Apex, NC at All Fun and Games 7/12/08

16 People showed up for the final Cary Cup event to play it out for the following:

1st) The physical Cary Cup + $53 + English Mana Drain
2nd) English Mana Drain + Flooded Strand
3rd) English Mana Drain
4th) Alpha Mana Vault

After 4 rounds of swiss, we cut to a top 5 and the standings were:

1st) Eric Becker (Cary Cup Combo) - 10 Points
2nd) Ben Moy (Naughty Mask) - 10 Points
3rd) Ryan Quick (Bomberman) - 9 Points
4th) Cody Vinci (Drain Tendrils) - 9 Points
5th) Bert Kyle (Ichorid) - 9 Points

In the bonus round, Bert Kyle (Ichorid) defeated Cody Vinci (Drain Tendrils) in 3 games.

For the top 4, Eric Becker (Cary Cup Combo) defeated Bert Kyle (Ichorid) in 3 games and Ryan Quick (Bomberman) defeated Ben Moy (Naughty Mask) in 2 games.

For the finals, Ryan Quick (Bomberman) defeated Eric Becker (Cary Cup Combo) in 2 games.

Here are the lists:

1st Place - Ryan Quick - Bomberman

4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
3 Island
2 U. Sea
3 Tundra
1 Tolarian
1 Ancient Tomb
4 Trinket Mage
3 Dark Confidant
2 Aven Mindscenor
3 Salvagers
1 DSC
4 FOW
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Mana Drain
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Brainstorm
1 Pithing Needle
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Echoing Truth
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 A. Recall
1 Time Walk
2 Mana Leak
1 Sensei's Top
1 Tinker

Board:

2 Duress
2 Extirpate
2 Planar Void
2 Wrath of God
2 Exalted Angel
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Innocent Blood
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives

2nd Place - Eric Becker - Cary Cup Combo

1 Tolarian Academy
1 Swamp
1 Badlands
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained MINOR
2 U. Sea
1 Flooded Strand
5 Moxen
1 Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 LED
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
4 Duress
1 Pact of Negation
2 Chain of Vapor
1 Rebuild
2 Street Wraith
2 Tendrils
3 Grim Tutor
2 Night's Whisper
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 A. Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Mind's Desire
1 Necropotence
1 Bargain
1 Will
1 Timetwiser
1 Wheel
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar

Board:

4 Chant
1 Scrubland
3 Extirpate
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Island
1 DSC

3rd Place - Ben Moy - Naughty Mask

3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
1 U. Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Tolarian
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Mana Crypt
4 Sensei's Top
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Phyrexian Dreadnaught
4 Dark Confidant
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Trinket Mage
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
1 Echoing Truth
4 Trickbind
1 A. Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Stifle

Board:

2 Pithing Needle
4 Planar Void
1 Darkblast
4 Annul
4 Spellsnare

4th Place - Bert Kyle - Ichorid

4 City of Brass
2 Petrified Field
1 Strip Mine
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Serum Powder
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Bridge from Below
4 Ichorid
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
2 Dread Return
4 Unmask
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Darkblast
4 Narcomoeba
4 Golgari Gravetroll
1 Eternal Witness

Board:

4 Gemstone Mine
1 Darkblast
4 Chain of Vapor
3 Emerald Charm
3 Wispmare

5th Place - Cody Vinci - Drain Tendrils

// Lands
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Island
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Tolarian Academy
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island

// Spells
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Brainstorm
    1 Chain of Vapor
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Fact or Fiction
    4 Force of Will
    2 Intuition
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Mana Crypt
    4 Mana Drain
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Rebuild
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    3 Thirst for Knowledge
    1 Time Walk
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Dark Ritual
    1 Recoup
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Empty the Warrens
    1 Gifts Ungiven
    1 Ponder

SB: 1 Darksteel Colossus
SB: 1 Tinker
SB: 4 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Darkblast
SB: 3 Yixlid Failer
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 4 Thoughtseize

Pictures:


Ryan and Becker playing in the finals for the Cary Cup


Staying hydrated after a long day...


More finals action


Beginning of Game 2 of the finals


Ryan wins!


Drunk magic at 4 AM


Swiss


Cullen and Chris


Swiss


Bert and Becker playing in the top 4


Becker not too happy about something Bert is doing


Ben finishing off his bottle of Shiraz during a match


Top 4 match


Becker's opening hand in the finals

Thanks to everyone who came out! I will miss you guys in NC and it's been a blast playing Vintage with everyone for so many years.

[bronxie]

congratz to ryan and thanks so much for runnin em cody we will miss ya buddy... go kick some new england ass!

[meadbert]

Cody, I believe your decklist is wrong.  I saw many Yixlid Jailers from you, but not a single Leyline.

[ErkBek]

Great tournament Cody. The new venue you found was a huge improvement. Let us know when you'll be back in town so we can coordinate tournaments on those weekends.

Congrats to Ryan! The Cary Cup avatar is all yours now....

What an anti-climatic finals match though. I just came down off my high of beating Bert game 3 at 1 life only to do nothing in our games. I drew 5 lands a row in game 1. Then in game 2 all I could do was hardcast Street Wraith and eventually play a Desire for 3 on turn 8ish. Some deck I was playing there. Guess my match against Bert exhausted all the good hands I could draw.

Cody, I believe your decklist is wrong.  I saw many Yixlid Jailers from you, but not a single Leyline.

Nope. Savage cheats.

jk

--------------

What are people's thoughts about trying to do tournaments in a middle ground like Charlotte or Columbia in the future? That way we could get people from all of the South. I've got the cards to TO if people from ATL and Raleigh would show.

[RaleighNCTourneys]

Cody, I believe your decklist is wrong.  I saw many Yixlid Jailers from you, but not a single Leyline.

Fixed. I had forgot I changed my MWS list at the last minute.

[wiley]

5 Minutes Alone: A Story of 9th place at The Final Cary Cup

My List

The Boogie Man

Lands (11)
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 City of Brass
3 Petrified Field

Creatures (22)
2 Sundering Titan
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp

Enchantments (8)
4 Bridge from Below
4 Leyline of the Void

Spells (11)
1 Street Wraith
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
4 Unmask

Artifacts (8)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Serum Powder

Sideboard (15)
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Emerald Charm
4 Gemstone Mine
3 Wispmare

So, I wanted to play Sex.dec since I had free entry to this tournament and thought that it could be competitive angainst everything but long.  Unfortunately I had to go to may fall back deck, Ichorid, thanks to various slow ebayers.  Saturday morning I woke up at 5am and couldn't get back to sleep.  So after a shower I decided to put in George's remake of Dawn of the Dead and play some tes games of Ichorid versus Becker's posted long list.  Halfway through the movie my 360 stopped being able to read the disc, I was rather pissed as I was really into it when it froze (the scene where the baby is being born, it has always tugged on my heartstrings).  I spend the next 15 minutes cleaning off the fingerprints and dried on gunk from the last douchebag  that I let borrow it and put it back in.  I suddenly get the great idea that cutting the maindeck Darkblast for a Street Wraith would be an awesome way to randomly increase my win by a turn, especially against Long, and it would still pitch to unmask and could even be Ichorid food.  I then proceed to change out the card in my physical deck and print off an updated deck list to turn in and sit down to watch the movie.  This mistake went a long way to losing me a match as you will see later on.  Around noon I head over to Jimmy John's to grab a sub and head over to the card shop.  When I get there only Cody and Chris are there for the tournament.  I'm not too worried as there was still an hour left and a lot of hype for the tournament.  Well, an hour later we only have 16 people ... again ... so we are forced into doing a cut to top 4 ... again.  Sad Panda.

Round 1 vs. Andrew (Control Slaver)
I remember seeing Andrew at the last tournament where he showed up but really didn't want to play.  I am glad he changed his mind this time.  He wins the die roll and elects to play.

Game 1
He keeps his opening 7 and I powder @ 7 and mull to 4 keeping a gassy hand with bazaar, leyline, ichorid and a dredger.  I start off with a turn 0 leyline.
He starts off with volc -> welder and passes.  I immediately put him on Control slaver and am happy as can be.  Even without Leyline I can race the conventional builds of Control Slaver all day long and I am already a step ahead.  I drop Bazaar and draw into a chalice, discard Ichorid, dredger and random card.  I play chalice @ 0 and pass.
He plays a volc and swings with welder.  I dredge on my upkeep and draw phase hitting 1 bridge, 2 narcomoebas and another ichorid.  I swing with the ichorid and try to dread return a troll to get an even more imposing board position.  He drains the dread return.  I am left with 3 zombies.
He draws and play a sol ring, burns for 3, swings with welder and passes.  I go about my game plan and swing in with 3 zombies and 2 ichorids bringing him to 2.  I then return a 9/9 troll to get out 6 new zombies, making absolutely sure that there are no outs for him.
He scoops.

Game 2
I side out 3 petrified fields, 1 Titan, 4 chalice, 1 thug, 1 unmask, 1 imp, 1 street wraith for 1 wispmare, 2 gemstone mine, 4 chain, 4 charm.
He keeps his opening 7 as do I.  I have double bazaar, city and chain in hand and am feeling confidant about this game.
He starts off with mox jet, mox ruby, volcanic and tinker->colossus, pass.  I go City->chain colossus, pass.
He scrolls for ancestral and casts it, pass.  I therapy naming TfK seeing Sea, S. Scrying, EtW, Tolarian Academy, volc, colossus.  I drop bazaar and put 2 trolls into the yard next to an ichorid.
He plays a volcanic and passes.  I dredge a lot and swing with ichorid.  I have 3 bridges and 2 ichorids as wells as multiple unused therapies in the grave.
He scoops.

Match W-L
1-0-0
Game W-L
2-0-0

Round 2 vs. Chris (Control Slaver)
I remember playing Chris in the second round of the last tournament where he was playing a storm deck.  He was an amazing player with a lot of skill so I was a little nervous about the rematch.  I win the die roll and elect to play.

Game 1
He mulls to 5 as we make conversation and I keep my opening 7 with bazaar, unmask, city, therapy x 2, powder, and chalice.
I start off by pitching a therapy to unmask seeing platinum angel, welder, volcanic, and some other stuff that I didn't write down.  I take Platinum Angel.  This was the mistake that ultimately lost me the game.  My thinking was that I could keep him off an active welder long enough to win, especially with the chalice @ 0 that would be coming down.  Instead I should have taken a tutor or just the welder and started using bazaar, but no I gave him the means to win without ever having to do anything more than cast a one drop creature.  I then play city and therapy the welder out of his hand off the city, put down chalice @ 0 and pass.  He proceeds to play a volcanic and the welder he ripped off the top Becker style.
I scramble to get bazaar working but don't hit dredgers until my turn three and he answers with a demonic for sol ring with an active welder and I scoop.

Game 2
I side out: Street Wraith, 1 titan, 2 fields, 4 unmask!, 4 chalice!!
I side in: 4 charm, 4 chain, 2 wispmare! and 3 mines.
He keeps his opening hand and I powder 7 and keep my second 7 that includes 2x bazaar, city, chain, leyline, cabal therapy and powder(?).
I play out leyline and bazaar, put a dredger (thug?) in the grave and pass.  He plays delta->sea->ancestral, discarding tendrils and island.
I play out bazaar #2 and see squat with my dredges and pass.  He plays some number of spells including a mox and land->jailer and passes w/ 2 cards in hand.
I play city and pass.  He draws and passes.  EOT I chain jailer.
I Dredge in 3 narcomoeabas (this turn) and 3 bridges (over the course of the game).  I hard cast therapy naming Jailer, seeing Thirst, tinker and pyroclasm.  I dread return troll as a 11/11 and then return a titan putting him on two moxen.  I flash back another therapy and name pyroclasm.  This is another mistake as tinker was so much more of a threat.  He proceeds to rip a land off the top and cast tinker->platz.
I beat him to -10 life while searching for a chain of vapor.  He brings me to 11 before I find it.
I am really upset with myself for almost handing another game to him and completely overlook that he has tendrils in the deck now.

Game 3
He keeps his hand of 7 while I mull to 2.
He starts off with sapphire->u. sea->ancestral pass.  I start off with bazaar into double grave-troll.
He untaps and goes through the motions to storm me out with a 20 point tendrils.  Had I bothered to think about it I would have dearly like to have those chalices back in as well as the unmasks.  I would have boarded out the titans, dread returns and some dredgers instead.

Match W-L
1-1-0
Game W-L
3-2-0

Round 3 vs. Bert (Manaless Ichorid)
As soon as I saw Bert playing Ichorid in the first round I knew that including Street Wraith into my build was going to bite me in the ass if I ever played him.  The Ichorid mirror is a very wierd game where game 1 you both mull to leyline and race to cities to cast your thugs, moebas and imps off.  If you don't have darkblast to snak a kill in against an opposing imp you will probably lose the game.  Guess what that meant for me...

Game 1
We both keep our opening 7 and drop leyline.
Bert wins th race to the city of brass, with me catching up 2 turns later after he already played a thug and narcomoeba.  I have to dig through my library to find another 2 mana sources to put out the imp in my hand.  Imp goes down and I'm in top decking mode.  Bert swings in with a nacomoeba and thug and proceeds to darkblast my imp.  I effectively lost all hope in this game at this point.  I try to put up more of a resistance but am met by another darkblast on a second imp.  .  I eventually lose to an alpha strike from two imps on his side of the field.

Game 2
Side out: 4 chalice, 2 titan, 3 field, 4 unmask.
Side in: 3 wispmare, 3 mine, 3 chain, 4 charm.

I mull to 6 and he mulls to some number I didn't write down (5?)
I play  out bazaar and dump an ichorid, dredger and something else.  He plays bazaar dumping bridge, ichorid, something else.
I dredge into good stuff and swing in with ichorid, getting me 2 tokens and removing his bridge.  He dredges and puts in an ichorid swings and gets no tokens but removes my bridges.
I dredge up a moeba and 1-2 more bridges in addition to playing out all 4 ichorids.  He darkblasts one of the ichorids and I beat for 13.  He dredges into 2x moeaba and multiple ichorids in play.  He then goes on to darkblast one of my moebas and remove his own bridges from the graveyard, putting him at 1 thanks to the city damage. He then scoops and we see if there was any way for him to win/stall that turn.  Results were inconclusive.   

Game 3
He mulls to 4 and wills me to do the same.  His luck has turned around since the last tournament and I end up mulling to 2.
His turn 3 sees him rushing in with an ichorid and 2 moeabas with me having hit no dredgers yet.  He proceeds to dread return a 20/20 grave-troll and get 12 zombies out of the deal.
I scoop, putting me out of top 4 contention.

Match W-L
[EDIT] 1-2-0 [/EDIT]
Game W-L
4-4-0

Round 4 vs. Mike (UW Fish)
Mike was a pretty nice guy.  I has seen him earlier in the day playing against Cullin, so I knew he was playing UW Fish.  He was a pretty cool guy and we had a nice conversation on the local vintage scene during and after the match.

Game 1
I powder 7 and keep he keeps his opening grip.
I didn't write down who went first but I do know that used a first turn heath->tundra that confirmed what I had seen earlier.  I also know that he scooped when my board position reached 8 zombies 3 ichorids and a titan while his was limited to a single mox.

Game 2
He mulls to 6 and comments that he should probably mull again.  I rejoice a little inside because so far anyone who has said that and not been a bold faced liar has lost.  I mull to 5 and keep.
He plays heat->tundra mox->meddling mage naming dread return.  I start using bazaar a lot.
He beats with MM and plays out faerie conclave.  I dredge a bunch, get 3 ichorids into play, chain the mage and bring him to 10, I then cast dread return on titan which he misdirects to a golgari thug.
He untaps and beats with the conclave.  I figure he can't have anything left since he only has one mana untapped and I was right.  I swing in for 16 with thug, 3 zombies and 3 ichorids.

Game 3 (for fun)
This game was rather uneventful as he starts with leyline and has 3 counter spells to protect it.  I dies to the beats and congratulate him for protecting leyline better than anyone else I have ever played.

Match W-L
2-2-0
Game W-L
6-4-0

Notes:
My games with Chris and Bert taught me excellent lessons on deck building, side boarding and play skills.  If I had a time machine I would go back and have five minutes alone with myself saturday morning and beaten some sense into me.  Nonetheless, these are lessons which I won't soon forget and ones that can be applied throughout my magic career so I am very happy that I attended the tournament and am greatly looking forward to the next one.  It is still up in the air on whether or not I will play ichorid at that one.

Props
Cody for organizing these tournaments.  I have always had fun and enjoyed the experience whether I scrubbed out or not.
Geoff for stepping up to the plate and taking over for Cody as he goes on to the next stage in his life.
Everyone who attended for being a fun crowd of people to spend a Saturday with.
Bert for loving Commandeer so much our sides hurt.
Everyone who signed a zombie token (especially Ben, who's alteration looks really cool).


Slops
Everyone who didn't attend.  I can't really understand why we didn't have a higher turn out for a tournament where you only had to top 8 and you break even.

Other Stuff
Cody, it was a blast having you around and I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.

Having been to a bachelor party last night and having been drinking with friends through most of the day today I apologize for any mistakes in memory, grammer, spelling etc.  I have tried to clean it up as much as possible however, seeing as how I need to way up around 6am tomorrow I will post this now and probably never edit it again.  Thank you and good night.

[Zherbus]

Slops
Everyone who didn't attend.  I can't really understand why we didn't have a higher turn out for a tournament where you only had to top 8 and you break even

That's not a fair assessment at all. This should explain some logistics about importing players.

The GA peeps have 390 miles, give or take, to get to the venue each way. That's about $60 in gas, at least, and just under 12 hours round trip. Charleston is about 2/3s of that. Add in the $25 entry fee. Also, the last five events average 18 players which (if people didn't know Cody) can compromise prize payouts seriously.

[wiley]

I'm not upset at all with people out of state.  I am upset with the size of the local vintage scene.  The fact that we have to get people from out of state just to get up to 16 players is disheartening.  I'm fairly certain we have had more local people at past tournaments who no longer show up, granted they probably don't read these forums but I hope I can still vent a little.  I know it was advertised at the store, I tried to get a few people reintroduced to vintage (unfortunately they are addicted to warcraft tcg), I'm certain other people tried as well and there was a good amount of hype in the forum for it.  I just don't know what else could have been done to increase turnout, making the fact that we only got 16 hit hard.

Here was the posted prize support:

1st Place: 4x Undergound Sea ($140) + Physical Cary Cup (Priceless) + Approx. $60 cash
2nd Place: English Mana Drain ($90) + Force of Will ($20)
3rd Place:  English Mana Drain ($90)   
4th Place:  English Mana Drain ($90)
5th Place: Alpha Mana Vault ($70)
6th Place: Foil Polluted Delta ($65)
7th Place: Beta Demonic Tutor ($40)
8th Place: Foil 8th Ed. Merchant Scroll ($25)

~$60 in gas + $25 entry fee = ~$85
Therefore to break even you would have to top 4 if you drove from GA and didn't carpool.  For something like that, including the fact that you only profit an expected ~$115 even if you win as well as the 12 hour trip I can completely understand choosing not to go.

[Anusien]

I scoop, putting me out of top 4 contention.

Match W-L
2-1-0

Huh?

[Zherbus]

You really basically need to go 3-0 short of weird draw situations in a 16 man.

@Wiley: Ahh, yeah local people can be really surprising on stuff they will and won't go to.

[RaleighNCTourneys]

He meant 1-2-0... he already lost a round prior to playing Bert.

[RaleighNCTourneys]

Becker... relinquish your avatar!!

@Mods: If Becker refuses, what kind of action can I take to have it forcibly removed? It's a violation of Chapter 2, Section 1.2.4, Cary Cup bylaws. All players agree to follow these rules by their entry into the event. The fine print is on the bottom of the Cary Cup, which all people had access to at the tournament.

[wiley]

I scoop, putting me out of top 4 contention.

Match W-L
2-1-0

Huh?

That was me being dyslexic, I lost to Chris and then to Bert which put me out of top 4.  They were all pretty fun games though.

A 16 man event has 4 rounds of swiss and cut to top 4, so you could make it in at 3-1 if you have good tiebreakers.  If I remember correctly Eric, Ryan and Ben were all 4-0.

However, since tiebreakers would be the deciding factor Cody decided to do a bonus round to decide 4th place if both 4th and 5th had the same points.  After the 4 rounds of swiss Bert was ranked 5th and Cody was ranked 4th, both with 9 points so they had to play the bonus round.

Becker... relinquish your avatar!!

@Mods: If Becker refuses, what kind of action can I take to have it forcibly removed? It's a violation of Chapter 2, Section 1.2.4, Cary Cup bylaws. All players agree to follow these rules by their entry into the event. The fine print is on the bottom of the Cary Cup, which all people had access to at the tournament.

Or you could just quote where he agreed to relinquish the avatar over on the announcement thread   I wonder how long that thing will last in the back of Ryan's car anyway.

Speaking of which, if Ryan is reading this, shoot me a pm so we can see about me procuring some shop pieces from you.

[RaleighNCTourneys]

It was actually Becker's idea for the bonus round... a ploy at getting me out of the top 4 so I wouldn't be able to avenge my earlier loss.

Ryan was 3-1 after swiss but had better breakers than me. I don't think 3 people being 4-0 is possible after 4 round and 16 people, but I may be wrong.

Chris and I went to Ryan's place that night... and I brought the Cary Cup inside and put it on his mantle. It looks HOT!

@Ryan-- Let's see your new avatar! Don't be afraid to show off...

[RJ]

Ok here is the avatar...I'm still surprised that Becker's deck threw up on itself during the finals.  I'll post a report later.  It was a fun event, although the hangover the next day was not technology....

[ErkBek]

Ok here is the avatar...I'm still surprised that Becker's deck threw up on itself during the finals.  I'll post a report later.  It was a fun event, although the hangover the next day was not technology....

I couldn't believe it either. I couldn't ask for a better matchup in the finals, but I drew a negative amount of business.

The avatar is all yours.

[meadbert]

In game 1 you were basically screwed over by your draws Eric, but in game 2 I think you might have had some opportunities to win.  I mostly watched the match from your side of the table, but I believe there was at least one turn where Ryan had Force in hand, but not enough mana to hardcast it nor a blue card to pitch while you could have played Jar.  Ryan, correct me if I am wrong.  I believe Ryan was clutching like 5 cards at the time and you knew one was Force since he revealed it with Dark Confidant, so I understand holding the Jar.

The key play was Ryan Forcing Rebuild when you were holding Desire.  Had he allowed Rebuild to resolve you would have likely won right there.

[ErkBek]

In game 1 you were basically screwed over by your draws Eric, but in game 2 I think you might have had some opportunities to win.  I mostly watched the match from your side of the table, but I believe there was at least one turn where Ryan had Force in hand, but not enough mana to hardcast it nor a blue card to pitch while you could have played Jar.  Ryan, correct me if I am wrong.  I believe Ryan was clutching like 5 cards at the time and you knew one was Force since he revealed it with Dark Confidant, so I understand holding the Jar.

The key play was Ryan Forcing Rebuild when you were holding Desire.  Had he allowed Rebuild to resolve you would have likely won right there.

I don't want to get into this, but yes I could have done a couple things differently in game 2.

1) I could have waited on the Rebuild play. I decided to go for it when I did b/c he was tapped out and feared his bob drawing him into Duress or Stifle. Going for rebuild then was still the play imo. It's not like Ryan made a spectacular play in countering Rebuild since it was sorta obvious what the play was there. (the spectacular play would be to let rebuild resolve then counter the Mana Vault, Ryan didn't b/c he feared Ritual into lethal Tendrils)

2) I could have cast the Jar instead of Street Wraith after Ryan had scrolled up or flipped FoW to bob (at some point this FoW was revealed to me). I opted to try and bait out a counter (leak, drain, or the FoW) with Street Wraith since Wraith was a threat considering his board was Bob, him at 11, with a grip of 5ish cards. I was surprised when it resolved.
     - with street wraith in play I figured I had some time to work my magic. I would have time to untap mana vault and start playing the large cards that were in my hand (Jar and Desire). Street Wraith's swampwalk was also highly relevant since Ryan was at ~11 life with a Bob out. Ryan went on to cast 4 dudes over the next 2 turns so my Street Wraith wall plan kinda fell apart.

3) On my last turn is when I made what I consider to be real mistake. After Mana Crypt resolved I had 9 mana available (5BBUU). For some reason I opted to play a Dark Ritual into the Chalice for storm rather than play the Grim Tutor under his mindcensor (hoping to hit a mox, Petal, LED, or Lotus). If I would have hit Jet, Petal, or Lotus I could have pulled off a Desire for 5 since I could throw my Ritual into his Chalice @1. Even an off color mox would have gotten me a Desire for 4. At the time I rationalized this since I'd have the chance to untap and win a mana crypt roll and then hope I either rip Tendrils or drop Jar and Jar into Tendrils + Moxen.

I don't mean to be a sore loser or anything, but to call me out saying I lost the finals b/c of misplays kinda pisses me off. Yes, I could have done things differently obv, but my plays were done rationally. Maybe they weren't the optimal plays but I made good decisions given my information. Still the only thing I believe I should have done differently is play the Grim Tutor under the Mindcensor before the Desire. Considering the game was hinging on that play I should have taken the time to do the math on the optimal play. Ultimately though I felt defeated at that point and just decided to wing it.

[OwenTheEnchanter]

Even the best make mistakes, its unrealistic to expect someone to play perfect for 10 rounds in a row.

And berating someone about it after the fact is cowardly.

[meadbert]

I don't mean to be a sore loser or anything, but to call me out saying I lost the finals b/c of misplays kinda pisses me off.

I think you misunderstood what I said.  I am not suggesting you made a play mistake at all.  I said that you had a chance to cast Jar when Ryan had Force but no blue card, but I also mention that you knew he had Force and had no way of knowing that he had no blue card and since he had something like 5 cards in hand, from your perspective he almost surely did have a blue card.
I think given the information you had your plays were correct.  First try to draw a counter or slow down the beaters with Street Wraith.  Then try to dodge Force with as large a Desire as possible.

[Anusien]

Even the best make mistakes, its unrealistic to expect someone to play perfect for 10 rounds in a row.

And berating someone about it after the fact is cowardly.

I've met meadbert before, and he's not that kind of guy; he also happens to know kobefan in person so it's not like this is some kind of grudge move.  I don't think he intended to be cruel with his comments.  I think it was more of a "Here's how you can win it the next time" situation.  There are few things worse than not helping somebody get better at Magic.  And especially with such a decision heavy deck, there are always things to be done differently.

Ultimately though I felt defeated at that point and just decided to wing it.

Not to make an example of you Becker, but I think this is a relevant point.  And it happens to us all.
This is the real reason you lost the match, and I feel fine saying it because you acknowledged it.  That's the real takeaway here (and I don't know if this thread helped you realize that or not).

Let me go on record; if you see me make a misplay, please tell me about it afterwards.  I used to play Standard with Knut, and he gave me some pretty relevant advice this way.

[RaleighNCTourneys]

I don't mean to be a sore loser or anything, but to call me out saying I lost the finals b/c of misplays kinda pisses me off.

I think if you re-read Meadbert's post carefully, you will find that he didn't say you made any misplays given your perspective of the game (which is the only way you can play, since I don't think you run Mindslaver). Also, seriously? Seriously? So it's okay for you to call me out for a play that could have won me the game against Bert in front of everyone at the store? Like I said before, I'm always more than happy to be told a correct play, but you doing that just made me think how funny your comment is.

[ErkBek]

I read Bert's post as "stop complaining about your hands, you could have won." Whether or not that was the intent, that's how I read it.

I don't mean to be a sore loser or anything, but to call me out saying I lost the finals b/c of misplays kinda pisses me off.

Also, seriously? Seriously? So it's okay for you to call me out for a play that could have won me the game against Bert in front of everyone at the store? Like I said before, I'm always more than happy to be told a correct play, but you doing that just made me think how funny your comment is.

Well, this is kinda different though. Your misplay was based on information (cast gifts vs. Scroll against Dredge), mine was based on misinformation (assumption my opponent has a blue card to pitch to FoW).  I view these as totally different. Having the win in hand and not seeing it is different than having the win if you would have done something different over the course of the game.

But yeah, kinda of a double standard. I couldn't believe you didn't just go for gifts, just seemed like there was no reason not to. I was just kinda bored at the time. I had a 3 hour break between my last round and my t4 match.

[meadbert]

I read Bert's post as "stop complaining about your hands, you could have won." Whether or not that was the intent, that's how I read it.

That was not the intent, but I see how it comes across that way.  I apologize.

[ErkBek]

I read Bert's post as "stop complaining about your hands, you could have won." Whether or not that was the intent, that's how I read it.

That was not the intent, but I see how it comes across that way.  I apologize.

It's cool Bert. I figured that was the case. I just had to defend my plays. I kinda had a shitty day yesterday so sorry if my post came off as a little heated.

I don't mean to be a sore loser or anything, but to call me out saying I lost the finals b/c of misplays kinda pisses me off.

Also, seriously? Seriously? So it's okay for you to call me out for a play that could have won me the game against Bert in front of everyone at the store? Like I said before, I'm always more than happy to be told a correct play, but you doing that just made me think how funny your comment is.

Just to add a little more to my earlier comment. I don't mind if someone points out a play that I flat out missed. For example, when playing Menendian in a t8 I cast Demonic for Ancestral in a long game (my will wasn't lethal at this point though). After the match Steve commented that Demonic for Bargain would have been a superior play considering I had 8 mana on the board and was at a healthy life total. I now consider Bargain whenever I cast a tutor and have lots of mana. (interestingly enough this play would have come up in game 1 against Bert in the t4, but Bert unmasked Demonic)

Me commenting about you not casting gifts was sort of comparable to that in my mind. You said yourself that you're inexperienced with the card Gifts, I believe my comment could only help you in the future. The comment of Ryan didn't have a blue card to pitch to FoW isn't very helpful though.

This is the real reason you lost the match, and I feel fine saying it because you acknowledged it.  That's the real takeaway here (and I don't know if this thread helped you realize that or not).

No, no. This is not the real reason I lost the match. Even if I made the optimal play there of Grim Tutor under mindcensor and then cross my fingers, it only gave me only a slightly higher chance of winning the game. What if I would have made the optimal play and still lost? Then what do you call it?

[Anusien]

No, no. This is not the real reason I lost the match. Even if I made the optimal play there of Grim Tutor under mindcensor and then cross my fingers, it only gave me only a slightly higher chance of winning the game. What if I would have made the optimal play and still lost? Then what do you call it?

A bad beat.

You got mentally defeated, made a sub-optimal play and lost.  If you were mentally in the game, you wouldn't have made the bad play, as you admit.  Therefore, the root error isn't the misplay, but what caused the misplay.

[ErkBek]

No, no. This is not the real reason I lost the match. Even if I made the optimal play there of Grim Tutor under mindcensor and then cross my fingers, it only gave me only a slightly higher chance of winning the game. What if I would have made the optimal play and still lost? Then what do you call it?

A bad beat.

You got mentally defeated, made a sub-optimal play and lost.  If you were mentally in the game, you wouldn't have made the bad play, as you admit.  Therefore, the root error isn't the misplay, but what caused the misplay.

k. thx