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Author Topic: [Deck] AggroVoid (Final Cut)  (Read 4916 times)
Lurker101
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« on: August 13, 2008, 09:03:13 pm »

So I got the idea to make this deck after he posted his Nether Void ideas. Here's my Void deck. Its a {B} {U} {G} deck.

Core:12
Leyline of Lifeforce 4
Nether Void           4
Thorn of Amethyst  4

Other Cards: 10
Rhystic Study  2
Dark Ritual      4
FoW               4

Creatures: 16
Nightscape Familiar 4
Hypnotic Specter 4
DSC              1
Trinket Mage  4
Ophidian       2
Coiling Oracle 2

Random/Broken: 2
Tinker
Time Walk

Lands/Mana: 20
Lotus Petal
Jet Medallion 1
Sapphire Medallion 1
Black Lotus
5 Moxen
Underground Sea 4
Volcanic Island 4
Tropical Island 2
Badlands 2
Wasteland 4

Sideboard : 15
Skirk Ridge Exhumer 2
Rishadan Cutpurse 2
Tormod's Crypt 2
Trinket Mage 3
Quicksilver Dagger 3
Arcane Laboratory 3

I originally intended for this to be a budget Legacy deck but I may have something here. I haven't posted it to Legacy yet but I will. This is primarily a Nether Void deck that uses Familiars and Medallions as well as Leyline of Lifeforce to make Nether Void as one sided as it can be. The Leylines work by making creatures uncounterable, because Nether Void counters cards instead of raising CMC, now you can play your large creature base at normal (or lesser with familiars and medallions) cost.
Thorn of Amethyst: Considering you're running 26 creatures and those creatures have reduced cost due to Familiars and Medallions. This card should not be a problem for you at all.
Rhystic Study: You're more than likely to get lots of cards from this because players can't afford to pay the cost. If anyone pays the cost then it is a Sphere of Resistance.
Dark Ritual/Cabal Ritual: Probably need these to play extra Voids (if something were to happen to it) or a turn one Hypnotic Specter.
Phage the Untouchable: Alternate kill condition.
The rest of the creatures are Fish like utility creatures:
Nightscape Familiar-Lowers mana costs of your blue and red cards.
Hypnotic Specter  - Great first turn play and great Card Disruption.

Mystic Snake  - Counterspell
Coiling Oracle  - Card Draw
Xantid Swarm - Heavy control
Ophidian       - Card Draw
Birds of Paradise - Mana Fixing
Gelectrode        - Repeatable direct damage
Trinket Mage - Tutors for artifacts
DSC - Tinker + DSC is a better win condition


Sideboard: 15
2 Skirk Ridge Exhumer - For Goblins
2 Rishadan Cutpurse  - Random disruption
2 Tormod's Crypt  - Graveyard based strategies
4 Voidslime - Great UG counter
2 Quicksilver Dagger  - Turns any creature into a direct damage machine and card engine. If you use it just once you have already replaced the card you used.
3 Arcane Laboratory - Storm killer

I'm going to try Blood Funnel and a token maker or Vexing Shusher in this later as well
« Last Edit: August 15, 2008, 02:21:56 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
Cavius The Great
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« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2008, 09:35:12 pm »

Cool idea. I'd probably suggest Serum Powder which are good at finding the crucial Leyline of Lifeforce on the first turn. At worst, it's a mana source that can be cast to help you accellerate spells under Nether Void. I'd also suggest running Chrome Mox over Cabal Ritual, since Ritual/Moxen can net you a first turn Void. I also have a list scribbled down somewhere when you revealed the interaction to people on another thread. Let me know if you're interested in seeing my take on the deck.  Very Happy
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« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2008, 10:43:06 pm »

You play G, and I can't see the best Green creature : Tarmogoyf.

Maybe could be a good include  Wink
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Harlequin
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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2008, 08:27:49 am »

Both this list and the other list you posted definatly would benefit from taking a step back and looking at your manabase.  As I count it you have an arguable 22 manasources (not counting medalion/familliar, but counting birds). 

Here is a handy chart:
0-4  Manaless Ichorid
4-12 Mana Ichorid/Dredge
12-18 "Deadzone" no decks really in here
19-21 Some builds of Fish or stompy type decks
21-23 Typical Fish with wasteland
22-25 Control and Control-Combo
24-26 Shop decks
25-30+ Pure Combo (counting temporary mana like Rits)

* Please note that The list above is a basic guidline... I'm not trying to say that there are no shop decks with 23 mana, or that a control deck can't have 26.  Just this is a basic framework for where sucessful decks typically fall.

What I -am- saying, is that there are no sucessful 70 card decks running 18 mana + 4 birds. 

Also, you need to rethink your place in the forum community.  You basically posted a list that is not even close to competative - not to mention not vintage legal.   Now, I would say that's fine for the improvement forum if you started your post with: Hey, I have this idea that I think could work in vintage. I've only ever played it casual and for referance here is that list... You could even say something like: My casual list list is 74 cards and I was hoping to get some expert advice on if the deck could work, and where to trim cards to make it work for vintage.

Anyway, hope that helps. 
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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2008, 10:54:16 am »

Unless MWS is lying to me, Leyline of Lifeforce is not one sided - their creatures are also voidproof.  As an aside, why is leyline better than Vexing Shusher?
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Lurker101
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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2008, 11:23:07 am »

Unless MWS is lying to me, Leyline of Lifeforce is not one sided - their creatures are also voidproof.  As an aside, why is leyline better than Vexing Shusher?
It does make their creatures uncounterable as well but how many strong and pure aggro decks are you going to find that don't get shut down by Nether Void and Thorns and Rhystic Study? Also Vexing Shusher doesn't start out in play like Leyline does. Also my deck is running 60 cards now. I miscounted last night.
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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2008, 12:24:48 pm »

Here's what I'm reading:
"Leyline of Lifeforce"
Info:  Color = Green     Type = Enchantment           Cost = 2GG       Edition =  Guildpact (GP)

Errata:  If Leyline of Lifeforce is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it in play. ; Creature spells can't be countered.


Nowhere does it say:  "Creature spells you play cannot be countered." 
All creature spells would fall under this category.  Your opponent gains the same advantages.

If I'm wrong would somebody please point out why?

It seems to me like this card actually negates Nether Void for creatures, meaning aggro will likely run you over.
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Lurker101
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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2008, 12:57:22 pm »

Here's what I'm reading:
"Leyline of Lifeforce"
Info:  Color = Green     Type = Enchantment           Cost = 2GG       Edition =  Guildpact (GP)

Errata:  If Leyline of Lifeforce is in your opening hand, you may begin the game with it in play. ; Creature spells can't be countered.


Nowhere does it say:  "Creature spells you play cannot be countered." 
All creature spells would fall under this category.  Your opponent gains the same advantages.

If I'm wrong would somebody please point out why?


It seems to me like this card actually negates Nether Void for creatures, meaning aggro will likely run you over.
Aggro decks are my main weakness right now. I'm hoping to make the vintage build less susceptible than this. I posted this as a shell for a vintage deck. Also Vexing Shusher requires extra mana or it only works for itself. The point is to negate Nether Void's power to make a more one sided aggro/control deck.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 01:30:22 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
Lurker101
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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2008, 01:52:48 pm »

Vintage version is up some improvements have been made.
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Cavius The Great
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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2008, 07:34:17 pm »

I've been testing a Legacy version of the idea and came up with this.

// Lands
    1  Forest
    3  Swamp
    2  Wasteland
    3  Cabal Pit
    2  Bloodstained Mire
    2  Wooded Foothills
    3  Bayou

// Creatures
    4  Nekrataal
    4  Faceless Butcher
    4  Bone Shredder
    4  Mesmeric Fiend
    4  Hypnotic Specter
    4  Tarmogoyf

// Spells
    4  Leyline of Lifeforce
    4  Serum Powder
    4  Dark Ritual
    4  Chrome Mox
    4  Nether Void

// Sideboard
SB: 4  Leyline of the Void
SB: 4  Krosan Grip
SB: 4  Viridian Zealot
SB: 3  Withered Wretch

The main idea behind the deck is to use creatures that kill other creatures, to actually try to gain an advantage with the Leyline's "universal" drawback. I also like to play creatures that "do" something since killing two birds with one stone isn't too bad of an idea.

I did some testing on MWS and the only person I played the deck against scooped when I dropped a Hyppie, obliterated their hand then cast a Goyf and Mesmeric Fiend. Yeah, he wasn't too happy.  Wink

I hope you like the list.

@The Mod's - This isn't an off topic post. Lurker101 PM'ed me wanting to see the list. Just letting you know.  Very Happy
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Lurker101
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2008, 04:37:52 pm »

AggroVoid
Final Cut
Core: 8
Nether Void           4
Thorn of Amethyst  4
CoV                          2
Other Cards: 10
Rhystic Study 2
Dark Ritual      4
FoW               4

Creatures: 18
Tarmogoyf 4
Hypnotic Specter 2
Coiling Oracle 2
Vexing Shusher 4
Street Wraith 4


Random/Broken: 3
Demonic Tutor 1
Time Walk 1
Regrowth 1

Lands/Mana: 21
Lotus Petal
Black Lotus
Mox Jet
Mox Sapphire
Mox Emerald
Underground Sea 4
Volcanic Island 4
Tropical Island 2
Badlands 2
Wasteland 4

Sideboard : 15
Yixlid Jailer  2 - Graveyard strategy hoser
Trinket Mage 3 - To dig for cheap artifacts.
Tormod's Crypt 2 - Another Graveyard Hoser
Arcane Laboratory 2 - Storm stopper
Mystic Remora 2 - In case you need more lockdown. 
Tin Street Hooligan 4 - Artifact destruction.     

Shusher was pointed out as a solution a few days back and I mis-read it. It works really well making my spells get past CoV, Nether Void, and Blood Funnel. I'm having problems deciding between force of will and Mana Drain. So you want to get out a Vexing Shusher as fast as you can then follow up with your disruption and it should all be one sided as long as you can pay the  {R} or  {G} to get through your turn. Should I main deck CoV as well? I need help here.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 10:37:30 am by Lurker101 » Logged
Lurker101
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« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2008, 04:43:18 pm »


Core:12
Nether Void           4
Thorn of Amethyst  4
Blood Funnel         4

Other Cards: 10
Mystic Remora 2
Dark Ritual      4
FoW               4

Creatures: 14
Tarmogoyf 4
Hypnotic Specter 4
Coiling Oracle 2
Vexing Shusher 4

Random/Broken: 3
Demonic Tutor 1
Time Walk 1
Regrowth 1

Lands/Mana: 21
Lotus Petal
Black Lotus
Mox Jet
Mox Sapphire
Mox Emerald
Underground Sea 4
Volcanic Island 4
Tropical Island 2
Badlands 2
Wasteland 4

Sideboard : 15
Yixlid Jailer  2 - Graveyard strategy hoser
Chalice of the Void 2 - Fits really well with this deck
Trinket Mage 4 - To dig for cheap artifacts.
Tormod's Crypt 2 - Another Graveyard Hoser
Arcane Laboratory 2 - Storm stopper
Rhystic Study 3 - In case you need more lockdown.       

Shusher was pointed out as a solution a few days back and I mis-read it. It works really well making my spells get past CoV, Nether Void, and Blood Funnel. I'm having problems deciding between force of will and Mana Drain. So you want to get out a Vexing Shusher as fast as you can then follow up with your disruption and it should all be one sided as long as you can pay the  {R} or  {G} to get through your turn. Should I main deck CoV as well? I need help here.
Nothing to say about this other version of the deck?
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Lurker101
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« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2008, 02:31:27 pm »

I tested AggroVoid on MWS against MaskNaught. I got rolled on two games in a row, due mainly to not getting my lockdown pieces out in time and some horrible misplays (I didn't FoW his mask on two different occasions when I could have). I will continue testing this build and posting results because I think keeping bad hands and misplaying cards was what killed me. It's not the deck, it's the pilot.
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Lurker101
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2008, 12:17:33 pm »

I beat workshop with AggroVoid earlier today. AggroVoid is the deck at the bottom of the page that uses Vexing Shusher
draws a card
0:02:58 [Blake] It is now the Precombat Main Phase
0:03:00 [Blake] Blake rearranges cards in Blake's Hand
0:03:10 [Blake] It is now turn 8 (Galen)
0:03:10 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:03:21 [Galen] Galen untaps his/her permanents
0:03:24 [Galen] It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
0:03:25 [Galen] Galen taps Mox Sapphire
0:03:26 [Galen] Galen taps Volcanic Island
0:03:27 [Galen] Galen taps Tropical Island
0:03:37 [Galen] It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
0:03:39 [Galen] Galen draws a card
0:03:43 [Galen] <Galen> End my turn
0:03:47 [Blake] It is now turn 9 (Blake)
0:03:47 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:03:48 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
0:03:48 [Blake] Blake draws a card
0:03:48 [Blake] It is now the Precombat Main Phase
0:03:52 [Blake] Blake taps Wasteland
0:03:53 [Blake] Blake plays Mana Vault from Hand
0:03:55 [Blake] Blake taps Mana Vault
0:03:56 [Blake] Blake taps Wasteland
0:03:58 [Blake] Blake plays Jester's Cap from Hand
0:04:00 [Blake] It is now turn 10 (Galen)
0:04:00 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:04:03 [Galen] Galen draws a card
0:04:03 [Galen] Galen draws a card
0:04:10 [Galen] Galen untaps his/her permanents
0:04:16 [Galen] Galen puts Mystic Remora to Graveyard from Play
0:04:21 [Galen] Galen plays Underground Sea from Hand
0:04:24 [Galen] Galen taps Tropical Island
0:04:25 [Galen] Galen taps Volcanic Island
0:04:26 [Galen] Galen taps Underground Sea
0:04:29 [Galen] Galen plays Dark Ritual from Hand
0:04:33 [Galen] Galen plays Hypnotic Specter from Hand
0:04:36 [Galen] Galen plays Tarmogoyf from Hand
0:04:55 [Galen] Tarmogoyf is now 2/3
0:04:57 [Galen] Galen puts Dark Ritual to Graveyard from Play
0:05:03 [Galen] <Galen> End my turn
0:05:05 [Blake] It is now turn 11 (Blake)
0:05:05 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:05:06 [Blake] Blake untaps his/her permanents
0:05:06 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
0:05:07 [Blake] Blake's life total is now 19 (-1)
0:05:08 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
0:05:08 [Blake] Blake draws a card
0:05:08 [Blake] It is now the Precombat Main Phase
0:05:12 [Blake] Blake taps Wasteland
0:05:13 [Blake] Blake taps Mox Pearl
0:05:19 [Blake] Blake untaps Wasteland
0:05:19 [Blake] Blake untaps Mox Pearl
0:05:21 [Blake] <Blake> Thinking
0:05:24 [Galen] <Galen> Ok
0:05:31 [Blake] Blake taps Wasteland
0:05:31 [Blake] Blake taps Mox Pearl
0:05:33 [Blake] Blake plays Balance from Hand
0:05:46 [Galen] Galen plays Force of Will from Hand
0:05:49 [Galen] Galen puts Force of Will to RFG from Hand
0:05:56 [Galen] Galen's life total is now 19 (-1)
0:06:00 [Blake] Blake puts Balance to Graveyard from Play
0:06:03 [Blake] It is now turn 12 (Galen)
0:06:03 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:06:04 [Galen] Galen puts Force of Will to Graveyard from Play
0:06:07 [Galen] Galen taps Tarmogoyf
0:06:10 [Galen] Galen untaps Tarmogoyf
0:06:19 [Galen] Tarmogoyf is now 3/4
0:06:24 [Galen] Galen untaps his/her permanents
0:06:27 [Galen] It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
0:06:28 [Galen] It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
0:06:31 [Galen] Galen draws a card
0:06:36 [Galen] Galen plays Thorn of Amethyst from Hand
0:06:37 [Galen] Galen taps Mox Sapphire
0:06:38 [Galen] Galen taps Volcanic Island
0:06:41 [Galen] Galen taps Underground Sea
0:06:42 [Galen] Galen taps Tropical Island
0:06:44 [Galen] Galen plays Tarmogoyf from Hand
0:06:54 [Galen] Tarmogoyf is now 3/4
0:06:56 [Galen] Galen taps Hypnotic Specter
0:06:57 [Galen] Galen taps Tarmogoyf
0:07:13 [Galen] <Galen> Ok?
0:07:16 [Blake] <Blake> dude could attack have ANY other possible target?
0:07:23 [Blake] <Blake> any planeswalkers on the board?
0:07:24 [Blake] <Blake> -.-
0:07:31 [Blake] Blake's life total is now 14 (-5)
0:07:42 [Blake] <Blake> stop pointing the obvious and play fast dude
0:07:46 [Galen] <Galen> k
0:07:56 [Galen] <Galen> discard for specter
0:08:02 [Blake] Blake discards a card at random: Sphere of Resistance
0:08:10 [Blake] <Blake> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzz
0:08:10 [Galen] <Galen> End my turn
0:08:12 [Blake] It is now turn 13 (Blake)
0:08:12 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:08:13 [Blake] Blake untaps his/her permanents
0:08:14 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
0:08:14 [Blake] Blake's life total is now 13 (-1)
0:08:15 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
0:08:15 [Blake] Blake draws a card
0:08:15 [Blake] It is now the Precombat Main Phase
0:08:20 [Blake] Blake plays Strip Mine from Hand
0:08:21 [Blake] Blake taps Mox Pearl
0:08:22 [Blake] Blake taps Wasteland
0:08:24 [Blake] Blake sacrifices Jester's Cap
0:08:34 [Blake] <Blake> ...
0:08:36 [Galen] <Galen> Ok
0:08:38 [Blake] <Blake> Im waiting
0:08:51 [Galen] Galen is looking its Library...
0:08:57 [Galen] Galen shuffles library
0:08:57 [Galen] Galen stops looking its Library...
0:08:58 [Galen] <Galen> Ok
0:08:58 [Blake] <Blake> show me your library....
0:09:01 [Galen] <Galen> how?
0:09:07 [Galen] <Galen> sorry
0:09:20 [Blake] <Blake> cant you read the buttons of this game?
0:09:29 [Blake] <Blake> upper part of the screen, "show" tag
0:09:40 [Blake] Blake is looking opponent's Library...
0:10:49 [Blake] <Blake> remove the fows and the time walk
0:10:54 [Blake] Galen shuffles library
0:10:54 [Blake] Blake stops looking opponent's Library...
0:10:56 [Galen] <Galen> Ok
0:11:05 [Galen] Galen is looking top 46 cards of its Library...
0:11:08 [Blake] <Blake> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzz
0:11:10 [Galen] Galen puts Force of Will to RFG from Library
0:11:13 [Galen] Galen puts Time Walk to RFG from Library
0:11:15 [Galen] Galen puts Force of Will to RFG from Library
0:11:19 [Galen] Galen stops looking its Library...
0:11:24 [Galen] Galen untaps his/her permanents
0:11:37 [Galen] Tarmogoyf is now 4/5
0:11:47 [Galen] Tarmogoyf is now 4/5
0:12:01 [Galen] It is now the Combat Phase, Beginning Of Combat Step
0:12:05 [Galen] Galen taps Tarmogoyf
0:12:07 [Galen] Galen taps Hypnotic Specter
0:12:08 [Galen] Galen taps Tarmogoyf
0:12:10 [Blake] <Blake> draw?
0:12:14 [Galen] Galen draws a card
0:12:20 [Blake] Blake's life total is now 3 (-10)
0:12:20 [Galen] Galen taps Tropical Island
0:12:29 [Galen] Galen taps Volcanic Island
0:12:32 [Galen] Galen plays Vexing Shusher from Hand
0:12:36 [Galen] <Galen> End my turn
0:12:38 [Blake] It is now turn 14 (Galen)
0:12:38 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:12:39 [Blake] It is now turn 15 (Blake)
0:12:39 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Untap Step
0:12:40 [Blake] Blake untaps his/her permanents
0:12:40 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Upkeep Step
0:12:41 [Blake] Blake's life total is now 2 (-1)
0:12:41 [Blake] It is now the Beginning Phase, Draw Step
0:12:41 [Blake] Blake draws a card
0:12:42 [Blake] It is now the Precombat Main Phase
0:12:51 [Blake] <Blake> nice mana screwed to death...
0:13:02 [Galen] <Galen> gg
0:13:07 [Blake] <Opponent is requesting a new game>
0:00:00 [Blake] Blake shuffles library
0:00:00 [Blake] <Blake> God Doesn't Heal Amputees.Think About This.
0:00:00 [Blake] Blake draws 0 cards
0:00:00 [Galen] <> g2g
0:00:00 [Blake] <Blake> gg?
0:00:00 [Blake] <Blake> it sucked
0:00:00 [Blake] <Blake> yea scoop noob
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Lurker101
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2008, 12:40:57 pm »

I cut out the Blood Funnels. They are horrible and I never played them or liked seeing them in hand. They were replaced by Street Wraith. You really want to get Nether Void and Shusher out ASAP and hopefully this will help. Right now the deck is a little too slow. I'll keep testing and posting results.
 I also cut two Hyppies and added Tin Street Hooligan for some much needed artifact destruction.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 12:49:26 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
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« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2008, 04:13:59 pm »

Hello, I've been working on a Nether Void based deck for awhile in the improvement forum. Today I made some changes and now have the final cut. Sorry if this is spam but the build is different than the one in improvement and it's been undefeated since I made those changes.
//Lands:16
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Badlands

//Creatures: 16
2 Hypnotic Specter
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Coiling Oracle
4 Vexing Shusher
4 ESG

// Spells: 28
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Emerald
4 Nether Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Lotus Petal
1 Regrowth
2 CotV
2 Rhystic Study
4 Mana Drain

//Sideboard 15
4 Tin Street Hooligan (Gets unwanted artifacts)
2 Yixlid Jailer             (Graveyard Hoser)
3 Trinket Mage          (Finds Lotus, Petals, Moxen, Chalices, and Crypts)
2 Tormod's Crypt       (Graveyard Hoser)
2 Arcane Laboratory   (Hurts storm)
2 Mystic Remora         (In case you want to turn up the heat on your opponent with a heavier lock than Rhystic Study)

     The goal of the deck is to get Nether Void  into play ASAP. Then use Vexing Shusher to make your spells uncounterable and attack for the win. Shusher also helps with Chalices. It only costs you 1 extra  {R}/ {G} to play cards that your opponent can't through Chalice or has to invest more mana into because of Nether Voids, Thorns, and Rhystic Studies.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 08:32:53 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2008, 05:05:51 pm »

You have 0 basics and 19 permanent sources of mana to cast a 1 {B} {B} Hypnotic Specter and a  {U} {U} Mana Drain

What is your game plan against a deck like Stax which will just attack your manabase?  What about Long, against which you have 0 Duress and 0 Force?

Have you actually played this deck against other Vintage decks?
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« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2008, 06:20:03 pm »

You have 0 basics and 19 permanent sources of mana to cast a 1 {B} {B} Hypnotic Specter and a  {U} {U} Mana Drain

What is your game plan against a deck like Stax which will just attack your manabase?  What about Long, against which you have 0 Duress and 0 Force?

Have you actually played this deck against other Vintage decks?
Yeah, I actually have been testing it (and various forms of it) online for awhile now and most of the decks were not Tier 1, I'll admit, but I beat Workshop, Tendrils and Counterbalance Top, Painter's Servant, and a few other good decks. Sometimes I'd get Void-Shusher out so fast they would scoop before I even knew what kind of deck it was. I posted it here because I'm proud of it and think it could be viable. I played Stax once and we kept wastelanding each other until I had a surperior board position and he scooped. I haven't played Long (as far as I know) because no one has tested it with me.
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« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2008, 06:22:33 pm »

Quote
but I beat Workshop, Tendrils and Counterbalance Top, Painter's Servant, and a few other good decks.

Was any of this real testing or does it fall under 'I played a random amount of games online and happened to win a few against good decks, so now I think I can do this consistently?'. Because like that's the main thing here, it certainly doesn't look like it can stand up in modern Vintage (or older Vintage for that matter) and there's very little in the way of logic here to support the deck itself. You might want to give us a better idea of what the hell is supposed to be going on most games and why there are such odd card choices.
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2008, 06:50:11 pm »

Quote
but I beat Workshop, Tendrils and Counterbalance Top, Painter's Servant, and a few other good decks.

Was any of this real testing or does it fall under 'I played a random amount of games online and happened to win a few against good decks, so now I think I can do this consistently?'. Because like that's the main thing here, it certainly doesn't look like it can stand up in modern Vintage (or older Vintage for that matter) and there's very little in the way of logic here to support the deck itself. You might want to give us a better idea of what the hell is supposed to be going on most games and why there are such odd card choices.
I guess that hits close to home. It's supposed to set up a lock using Nether Void and Chalice and Vexing Shusher makes your cards uncounterable for 1 additional mana per spell compared to 3 additional mana or just not being able to play a card because of Chalice. It works surprisingly fast and when you can get an early Nether Void and Shusher out by turn 2 or 3 and start throwing down uncounterable Tarmogoyfs. The Hypnotic Specter here acts as a disruption piece and Rhystic Study and Thorn are additional disruption (most of the time you draw off the study because casting a spell is too mana intensive for your opponent. Elvish Spirit Guide speeds the deck up quite a bit and Coiling Oracle works well enough as an extra draw or extra land. Although that would be the one card I'd cut first.  Mainly, it's an aggro deck that runs on the synergy between Shusher, Chalice, and Void. If anyone would like to volunteer to test this against tier one decks I'd be happy to see results. Even if they prove me wrong and maybe I can build on those results and make this Vintage playable (if it isn't already).
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2008, 07:04:09 pm »

I'm pretty sure 99% of the people who look at your list are going to think 'CoV' stands for 'Chain of Vapor' and not 'Chalice of the Void'. Logic is on their side. If you're going to use an acronym for something, make sure you get it right as it causes unnecssary confusion.

That being said, your deck lacks focus and is running a lot of bad cards. There's simply too much for me to go into detail right now. You should try to simplify the deck. Try building something that is just black and green. Having those 2 colors lets you play with the core interaction of the deck: vexing shusher and nether void. Try replacing thorn of amethyst with null rod and up the chalice count to 4. Put in dark confidant and duress. You can build a nice little aggro-control deck with a creature suite of dark confidant, tarmogoyf, vexing shusher, and maybe something else like withered wretch, yixlid jailer, nantuko shade, phyrexian negator, etc.

If you don't like dark confidant, try night's whisper.

A shell to start out with might look something like this:

4 duress

4 chalice of the void
3 null rod
3 nether void

4 dark confidant
4 vexing shusher
4 tarmogoyf

4 dark ritual
1 black lotus
1 mox emerald
1 mox jet
1 strip mine
3 wasteland
3 bloodstained mire
3 polluted delta
4 bayou
6 swamp
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 07:18:46 pm by Webster » Logged

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« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2008, 07:27:14 pm »

I'm pretty sure 99% of the people who look at your list are going to think 'CoV' stands for 'Chain of Vapor' and not 'Chalice of the Void'. Logic is on their side. If you're going to use an acronym for something, make sure you get it right as it causes unnecssary confusion.

That being said, your deck lacks focus and is running a lot of bad cards. There's simply too much for me to go into detail right now. You should try to simplify the deck. Try building something that is just black and green. Having those 2 colors lets you play with the core interaction of the deck: vexing shusher and nether void. Try replacing thorn of amethyst with null rod and up the chalice count to 4. Put in dark confidant and duress. You can build a nice little aggro-control deck with a creature suite of dark confidant, tarmogoyf, vexing shusher, and maybe something else like withered wretch, yixlid jailer, nantuko shade, phyrexian negator, etc.

If you don't like dark confidant, try night's whisper.

A shell to start out with might look something like this:

4 duress

4 chalice of the void
3 null rod
3 nether void

4 dark confidant
4 vexing shusher
4 tarmogoyf

4 dark ritual
1 black lotus
1 mox emerald
1 mox jet
1 strip mine
3 wasteland
3 bloodstained mire
3 polluted delta
4 bayou
6 swamp

Thank you, I will look into it and post an updated version. It won't be "my deck" anymore but I think Void+Shusher is good enough for a deck to be built around
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 08:35:22 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
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« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2008, 09:14:59 pm »

//Lands: 20
1 Strip Mine
3 Wasteland
4 Bayou
6 Swamp
3 Polluted Delta
3 Bloodstained Mire

//Creatures: 16
4 Vexing Shusher (Combo element)
4 Tarmogoyf       (Aggro)
4 ESG                 (speed)
4 Bob                 (Aggro/Draw)

//Spells: 24
4 Nether Void     (Combo element)
3 Chalice of the Void   (Combo Element)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Oxidize
2 Null Rod

//Sideboard: 15
2 Seedtime (against counterspells)
2 Oxidize (Artifact destruction)
1 Null Rod (against Stax or Slaver type decks)
4 Leyline of the Void (Obvious)
2 Unmask (for excess LotV if needed)
2 Deglamer (for DSC)
2 Yixlid Jailer        (Aggro/graveyard disruption)

Edit: I added maindeck artifact destruction and some card choice explanations.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 01:24:04 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2008, 11:16:06 am »

This would get an embarrassing, merciless beating against my Doomsday deck!!
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« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2008, 12:30:57 pm »

This thread and its cousin in Open have generated more moderation reports than any other pair of threads I've ever seen since becoming a moderator.  Enough.  No more spam, no more snide remarks, no more bare decklists or interminable MWS logs.  Any futher rules violations and the thread will be closed, and the offending posters will get warned.

Edit:  Thread in Open merged into existing thread in Improvement.  It's better not to have multiple threads dedicated to the same deck idea going at the same time on different boards.  And, as a guideline, if you're unsure of whether a deck idea belongs in Open or Improvement, post it in Improvement.  If you're wrong, a mod can PM you or just move it for you.  Good luck with the deck.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2008, 08:03:19 pm by Demonic Attorney » Logged

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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2008, 08:39:02 pm »

I will keep editing this post with further results after I get more testing done.
Against Counterbalance-Top running Tinker-DSC and Platinum Angel
Game 1
I am winning with 1 goyf out, 2 Jailers, and 1 Dark Condfidant beating down. He plays I Confidant to keep mine from attacking. He eventually plays Platinum Angel which I can't do anything about since I have no main deck artifact destruction. I lose.
Game 2
I board in 4 Oxidize for 1 Nether Void, 1 Dark Ritual, 1 Duress, and 1 Yixlid Jailer.
I play Tarmogoyf which quickly turns into a 5/6. He plays Engineered Explosives which I Oxidize. I beat him down with Tarmogoyf ftw.
Game 3
I get out a 1st turn Nether Void via Dark Ritual, Mox Jet, and ESG. I also play Bayou and Black Lotus. He scoops.

I have added 2 Maindeck Oxidize for 2 Yixlid Jailers

Against a deck running Drains, EtW, and DSC
Game 1
I get killed by a combination of his Goblin tokens and my own Dark Confidants (at 5 life I flip Nether Void first with another Confidant in play still)
Game 2
I sideboard in Oxidizes but forget to SB in my Null Rods. He goes off and kills me with DSC.

Against Bomberman
Game 1
I am mana flooded and get beatdown by Aven Mindcensors. I have no idea he's playing bomberman.
Game 2
Again, I should have sided in Null Rods and LotV but chose to side in 2 Seedtimes (he was packing lots of counters and I thought it was U/W Fish or something)
I lose to recursive Aether Spellbombs.

2 Null Rods have been added maindeck and Yixlid Jailer has been moved to the sideboard

Against Workshop running Show and Tell and Augury Adept
Game 1
He gets a first turn DSC. I scoop.
Game 2
I get mana screwed he plays Adept flips over DSC and FoW with it to gain tons of life. He plays Show and Tell for a DSC. I have 1 land and a chalice at 0 out. I scoop.

Against Goblin Charbelcher
Game 1
I get first turn Nether Void. He scoops.
Game 2
I get first turn Null Rod and Tarmogoyf. He plays Taiga, I strip mine it.  He can't do anything due to Null Rod and lack of lands and I beatdown with Goyf ftw.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 01:21:14 pm by Lurker101 » Logged
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