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Author Topic: Not winning with grim long: find my mistakes  (Read 2227 times)
punki
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« on: September 29, 2008, 04:05:59 am »

Toying with grim long, trying to learn how to play grim long

I'm writing this report to invite everyone to reply and point out to me what I could/should have done different.
First off, I'll try to introduce myself a little and give some information about the tournament.
I'm 28 years old, played casual magic for ages and got into vintage about 2 years ago. I usually try to play 1 tournament a month here in Belgium and recently also in the Netherlands (Breda). Outside the tournaments I don't get to test t1 that often Everyone here in the club I play, plays legacy or standard so I join them in drafting and playing legacy.
I've played goblins, slaver, shops, affinity, drain tendrills, … All to some success and now I want to play Combo. I've tested TPS, but didn't like it. I rarely have the FOW when I need it. And if I do it's the only blue card in my hand. Then when I necro or desire it's suddenly nothing but mana and Fow’s. So after 2 tournaments with TPS I decided to concentrate on grim long

First off the list I played;

Artifacts
1 Black Lotus
0  Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Memory Jar
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

Creatures
2 Simian Spirit Guide

Enchantments
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain


Instants
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Cabal Ritual
1 Chain Of Vapor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Rebuild

Sorceries
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Duress
1 Empty The Warrens
3 Grim Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
0  Merchant Scroll
1 Mind's Desire
1 Ponder
1 Tendrils Of Agony
3 Thoughtseize
1 Time Walk
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Wheel Of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Lands
1 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
1 swamp

Legendary Lands
1 Tolarian Academy

Sideboard:
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Extirpate
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Pyroblast
1 Rebuild
3 Island
1 darksteel colosus
1 Massacre
1 echoing truth[/B]

I started out with S. Menendian’s list and made some changes:
Because I never liked merchant scroll, I cut it from the deck. If I am wrong to leave out this card, please tell me why. I replaced it with a rebuild to open up SB space and to have a (small) chance against shops g1
LED is one of the other cards I didn't like because I just didn't feel comfortable wit it. I replaced it with a swamp (same reasoning as above: SB space and shops) I like to be able to fetch a swamp and play duress t1 without having to fear I'll see wastelands in their opening 7. I play in a non proxy environment so I expected lots of null rods and wastelands.
My additions to the SB where colossus against shops and random aggro, echoing truth for in the eye of chaos and arcane labs and 1 massacre for the fish match up. The last one was a mistake, few fish deck seem to run white these days.

On to the tournament.
Round 1 against Rachid, the guy I lent my shops to. He was playing a homebrew with shops and drains. Didn't know what to expect from that. I did now he hasn't played in a long time and makes a lot of mistakes (thinking will is an instant is only one of them)

G1 I draw Jar, thoughtseize, land, petal, A recall, dark rit and grim tutor.
-   He starts with land go (preparing to thoughtseize me end of turn :s)
-   I open with land thoughtseize taking his fow, then petal  recall drawing bargain and brainstorm.
-   He thoughtseizes me, i brainstorm in response putting back bargain and another bomb (jar I think) he takes the Drit and extirpates it. bye bye bargain and jar.
-   2 turns later I manage a desire with storm 4 gives me a duress and bargain which gives me the win.

G2 I open with 3 land grim, brainstorm, demonic and thoughtseize.
-   He does nothing relevant. I draw blue mox, lay swamp end thoughtseize him. I see fow, telling time, extirpate and things not worth writing down apparently. I take the fow. Next turn I tutor up a tinker for me one card I sided in: colossus. He goes all the way. I made this play because of the extirpate in his hand and I didn't want to risk blowing it by trying to go for the tendrills kill and giving him the time to play a well timed extirpate to ruin my plans.

Round 2 against Tom with slaver. with cunning wish and duresses
G1 I mull to rit, mox, empty the warrens, grim, and 2 land. The plan was: mox, land, rit, grim, lotus empty for 10 tokens. Not to bad I thought for a mull to 6. Unfortunately he is a slaver player with maindeck duress and he takes my empty the warrens.
I draw manacrypt, tutor for tinker and get jar.
He strips my sea but I win next turn off jar in upkeep. (Jar gave me lotus + will and a thoughtseize for his duress.

G2  I mull to 6 again 2 land, pyroblast, ritual, Wheel of fortune and mystical.
He starts with crypt, explosives for 0. My turn is Wheel with reb backup for his FoW. Wheel gives me thoughtseize, grim, vamp, ritual, 2 land and ancestral. This was literally TO MANY INSANE PLAYS. I choke don it. The spectators where gathering around and I start screwing it up. I have n omana so i pass the turn. He duresses me, seeing also to many insane plays. He takes thoughtseize.
In my upkeep i vamp for duress and congratulate myself on that play.  I take his lonely FoW. Now I have to win with grim, vampn rit, ancestral. I fail miserabely going for empty the warrens and completely overlooking his explosives on 0. After that welder beats me down togetrher with a trisk since I draw 5 blanks in a row.

G3 I get t1 necro. I draw 10 and see nothing that gives me the win so I assemble mana and a few draw 7’s discarding duresses and lands. I know we have a few minutes left, the draw 7 I screw up because as someone pointed out later I put back a cabal rit with BS that could have given me the win if I sacked lotus for blue instead of black so I could have cast mystical ans ancestral instead of just failing. I keep drawing with necro going within fire/ ice range and not getting it done.
FAILED  Sad

Round3  against Tim with blue black metalworker combo stax.
G1 he gets t1 titan, t2 trisk
I Can't win in 3 turns. I get a desire for 3 giving me 2 land and twister. Twister draws me 3 grim, ritual chain of vapor and 2 fetchland. I can't win. Only thing I can do is bounce his titan, blowing my land giving me 1 more turn with 1 life and only fetches in hand. He lays chalice at 0 and tangle wire. GG

G2 i board in the basics, bounce, echoing truth (for his in the eye of chaos) and colossus.
I open with lotus, rebuild, jar, drit, colossus and mana vault and a basic. I lay my mana and say go. I do this for a few turns end of turn bounce his board and win after a jar with will on top via a topdeck tutor.

G3 I open with echoing truth, cabal rit, rebuild, jar and 3 land. I topdeck manacrypt and go for tinker colossus. The bis guy goes all the way.

Round 4 against Marcel with 8 stifle.dec He plays a legacy deck with tutors, dreadnought, trinketmage, counterbalance.

G1 I mull to 5: mox mox Wheel land SSG
My Wheel gets fowed, my badlands wasted, my swamp striped, twister catches a COUNTERSPELL, dreadnought kills me. I should have waited for a discard spell before playing a bomb, but i drew several blanks and than just threw every bomb i drew out there.

G2 twister resolves after a mull to 6, i get tinker for the big man, he tutors up a dreadnought to Block him, but cant cast it in the same turn so i windfall it away and take the game.

G3 He counters every threat (like FOW, counterspell, FOW, FOW, counterspell and then gets counterbalance on line. I try to break through it with desires en bargain, bargain gets cou,ntered (duressed previous turn, didn't see a counter but he topdecked one) desire resolves giving me only Drit and ancestral. Ancestral would have given me will with a full graveyard (including bounce for the counterbalance) but counterbalance reveals a random ponder and counters my ancestral.) Dreadnought comes to kill me.

Round 5 against steve with 5c bazaar stax. I'm not very much in it anymore? G1 I don't get to cast anything. G2 I prepare to bounce his board and win when he tinkers titan, nukes my land, plays mow monkey and eats then having 2 spheres in play. Couldn't do anything.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2008, 04:25:43 am by punki » Logged
Tha Gunslinga
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 11:18:56 am »

1.  You played Grim Long.
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M.Solymossy
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 01:20:09 pm »

Quote
-   He thoughtseizes me, i brainstorm in response putting back bargain and another bomb (jar I think) he takes the Drit and extirpates it. bye bye bargain and jar.

This was a mistake. You should have put back the Bargain 2 down, and Dark Ritual 1 down.  This gives you Dark Ritual into Grim tutor or Jar, whichever he doesn't take.  Chances are, he would not have extirpated your restricted cards.   Of course, this is assuming some of the cards you didn't tell us about were lands.
giving him the time to play a well timed extirpate to ruin my plans
-   2 turns later I manage a desire with storm 4 gives me a duress and bargain which gives me the win..

Quote
Wheel gives me thoughtseize, grim, vamp, ritual, 2 land and ancestral. This was literally TO MANY INSANE PLAYS. I choked on it.
 

No explanation needed.

Quote
k the draw 7 I screw up because as someone pointed out later I put back a cabal rit with BS that could have given me the win if I sacked lotus for blue instead of black so I could have cast mystical ans ancestral instead of just failing.

Again, no explanation needed.



[/quote]I open with lotus, rebuild, jar, drit, colossus and mana vault and a basic. I lay my mana and say go. [/quote]

You won this game, but really, you shouldn't have.  Depending on which basic you got, changes the scenario, but lets assume it's an island.

You play the Island.  Lotus, Hit lotus for BBB, Dark Ritual, BBBBB, Play Vault, Tap Vault, tap island, play Jar.  Hit Jar. BBU in pool, and 4 on storm count.

Quote
G3 I open with echoing truth, cabal rit, rebuild, jar and 3 land. I topdeck manacrypt and tinker

Nice eight card hand.
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policehq
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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 02:31:54 pm »



Quote
G3 I open with echoing truth, cabal rit, rebuild, jar and 3 land. I topdeck manacrypt and tinker

Nice eight card hand.

He listed nine cards, but only seven at a time, necessarily.
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punki
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2008, 02:03:28 am »

thanks for the comments this far

@ playing grim long being a mistake: I find it better then TPS for reasons I explained in the initial post. If you are saying I shouldn't have played combo in general because I'm not very good at it, You are right. But I want to become good at it, so I'll have to practice.

@ 13NOva

Thanks for the comments

Having a hand of thoughtseize, grim, vamp, ritual, 2 land and ancestral, being tapped out, what do you do?

Concerning the '8 card hand': I had a safe hand of mana and basics + bounce against stax so I kept it being on the draw. I topdeck a manacrypt and next turn I topdecked a tinker. Sometimes Grim long is nice to noobs  Smile

 
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Thegreatgonzo
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2008, 06:26:49 am »

not playing LD was a mistake I think. I understand you don't feel comfortable with it, and neither do I. But having it in your deck increase your goldfish speed by half a turn. Also, Hurkyl's recall is better than rebuild here, since you don't have to fear chalice at 2.

Basic swamp is nice, but mine is usualy in sideboard. A basic island ensure you the ability to cast a bounce spell end of opponent's turn before going of on your next main phase.

Windfall is often the worst card in your deck. I cut it for Gifts (wich, surprisingly, is less then stellar in Glong); Still, Gifts is a good duress/FOW bait. Windfall is not.

Since we don't have the same meta, I won't talk about sideboard, but what were de Tormod's crypt for?
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