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Author Topic: Mirrodin Strikes Back: Thoughtcast Painter  (Read 4572 times)
Demonic Attorney
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« on: January 19, 2009, 12:03:14 am »

On June 1, 2008, Vintage as we knew it was no more.  Four cards that had served to define blue-based decks in Vintage for the preceding year were gone.  Set adrift in a sea of uncertainty without the familiar comfort of pseudo-Ancestral, many longtime blue-based players floundered while trying to find a suitable replacement.  Some of those players ended up leaving the format, thanking us for the memories.  Those who stayed first tried to rely on Sensei's Divining Top, then Deep Analysis to replace the consistency that Brainstorm and Ponder offered.  Some of us returned to the familiar Thirst for Knowledge or Accumulated Knowledge, while others tried more exotic ideas like Cold-Eye Selkie or Courier's Capsule.  In the end, though, we just couldn't recapture the days of 2007-2008. 

The new format brought Rich and I our share of setbacks.  While Capsule Slaver first seemed to be a promising new direction for blue-based control, we soon realized that it was hopelessly slower than some of the other new Vintage archetypes, including GI and Eastman's take on Tezzeret.  Adopting the Tezzeret concept for our own, we tried to incorporate Oath of Druids as a defense against Fish decks, which were enjoying unprecedented success in our metagame.  Yet again, we were thwarted by the fundamental weakness of a basic engine to drive the deck.

Reflecting on those difficulties, we retreated from the format into a more frequent testing regimen to try to find a new idea.  After spending several weeks searching in vain for the next great blue engine, we scoured Vintage history and current results for inspiration.  We each found ideas that would end up taking us in very different directions.  Drawing on Rock Lee and Harlequin's creation, Show and Tell Tyrant, Rich concluded that Mystic Remora and Meditate were the new engine that he needed.  That concept certainly brought him his share of success, documented here.

For my part, I saw Remora/Meditate as too susceptible to creature-based offense.  As I said before, I had been struck by the quantum leaps in the power of Fish over the last year, and on that basis was forced to look elsewhere.  I also called to mind Brassman's own theory about Vintage, that the best deck is the one best able to utilize Yawgmoth's Will, which a Remora deck is usually poorly-equipped to do.  In the end, my own inspiration came from Europe, in a concept introduced by Cesar Fernandez-- Thoughtcast.  In a way, I thought it was fitting.  Mirrodin block had already brought a number of sea changes to Vintage: Mindslaver, Darksteel Colossus, Thirst for Knowledge, etc.  I had tried to make Thoughtcast work once before, at the very beginning of my Vintage career.  It was quickly overshadowed by more efficient, more powerful alternatives.  Now that their departure left a vacuum in blue-based control, maybe this could be Thoughtcast's time to shine.

I tested Cesar's deck, but quickly found it fared little better against Fish than did Tezzeret.  Specifically, Null Rod obliterated me whenever it appeared.  In addition, I wasn't crazy about some of Cesar's maindeck choices; some of them struck me as running artifacts for artifacts' sake.  That's of course understandable when trying to make Thoughtcast work, but I still believed I could find an artifact base that was a bit more functional then 2x Voltaic Key and triple Top.  I eventually settled on Painter's Servant.  It blocks most of Fish's creatures, provides a (somewhat roundabout) way to remove Null Rod, has an advantage against Tezzeret in its quadruple Red Blasts, and brings a large contingent of artifacts that double as threats.

It seemed to be a perfect fit for Thoughtcast.  With a view towards expanding the non-artifact land base to hedge against Welder/Shaman/Null Rod, I arrived at this:

4x Force of Will
4x Thirst for Knowledge
4x Thoughtcast
3x Mana Drain
3x Painter's Servant
2x Sensei's Divining Top
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroblast
2x Grindstone
2x Relic  of Progenitus
1x Darksteel Colossus
Merchant Scroll
Yawgmoth's Will
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Tinker
Brainstorm

3x Volcanic Island
2x Underground Sea
2x Island
2x Seat of the Synod
2x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
Tolarian Academy
Library of Alexandria
5x Mox
Lotus
Ring
Mana Crypt

SB:

4x Leyline of the Void
2x Pithing Needle
2x Old Man of the Sea
2x Ingot Chewer
2x Chalice of the Void
1x Shattering Spree
1x Viashino Heretic
1x Red Elemental Blast

Many of the choices should be self-explanatory.  The double Relic are my own attempt to round out the deck's artifact count.  Rich had pointed out that Ichorid was going to be much more popular thanks to the addition of Fatestitcher to the format.  I also thought that Relic would be a good disruptor of Accumulated Knowledge and Goblin Welder, the latter being a significant threat to the deck.  The sideboard has a significant contingent of cards to remove Null Rod, and a large number of Ichorid hate cards for reasons mentioned above.  Lastly, Old Man of the Sea was Brassman's suggestion as another defense against Fish; I thought it would do double-duty against Welder and Shaman if necessary.

With my list established, I felt ready to post a strong performance in Vintage's first New England event in 2009.  I had been troubled by the decline in tournament attendance towards the end of 2008, which some people had billed as the death of Vintage.  To stem the tide of people leaving Vintage, whether temporarily or permanently, I worked with several site Adepts to create the TMD Vintage Pro Point Rankings.  If you're unfamiliar with them, you can check out the announcement here.  Having helped to create the concept, I now wanted to prove I wasn't just an architect, but also a serious contender.    Smile

Myriad Games got a much higher turnout than in late 2008 at 35 players.  That meant my new creation would need to survive 6 rounds of Swiss in one of the most Fish-intensive metagames in Vintage.  A good test of its ability to stand up against artifact hate.

Round 1 vs. Josh McBride, Stiflenaught Fish

Game 1.  I mulligan to 6 and keep a mana-light hand that has a good deal of early draw.  He leads off with multiple Duresses, but I have too much gas for that to slow me down significantly.  Before long I have enough artifacts and mana to start chaining Thirsts and Thoughtcasts, which generate massive card advatage.  I have trouble finding threats, and he gets in some damage with Meddling Mage and Trinket Mage. 

The turning point comes when I find Tolarian Academy, which taps for something absurd like 9 blue mana.  I use it to easily hardcast Darksteel Colossus with Drain and Force backup, and push him through for the win.

Game 2.  I'm hopelessly mana shorted after my one-land, one-draw spell hand doesn't pan out and I'm quickly beaten by a Dreadnought.

Game 3.  We both get mana shorted, but he far worse than me.  I recover long before he does and put him out of his misery.

Round 2  vs.  Andrew Fox, "Joke Deck"

Game 1.  He introduces his deck as a joke deck.  The joke went over my head, since it was based on cards from Time Spiral and Lorwyn blocks.  I hated drafting with both of those blocks and had to spend some of that time studying for the bar exam, so I was unfamiliar with cards like Pillar of the Paruns, but I quickly figured out what his plan was when he led with a creature who got +0/+4 when he discarded a card and tried to follow that up with another creature that made toughness, rather than power, the basis of combat damage.

I REB'ed an Ancestral at some point, and assembled the Painter combo short of the mana needed to execute it.  Painter's Servant met with an untimely Artifact Mutation, but Tinker found Darksteel Colossus, which found Andrew's life total.  He tried to defend himself with Bant Charm, but Red Elemental Blast took care of that.

Game 2.  I bring in Old Man of the Sea, which would be pretty hilarious against Andrew's 0/5.  I don't draw it, but my draw engine does quickly snowball.  Several Thoughtcasts and Thirsts later, I have both Tinker and Will in hand, against Andrew's four cards.  He's held four cards for a while, so my guess is that he has some form of removal or counters. 

I'm holding REB and Force, and bait with Tinker.  It resolves, and he aims Bant Charm at my DSC.  I let it happen and then play Will with a stacked graveyard thanks to Thirst.  The painter combo finishes him off.

Game 3  Forgot Name vs. Ichorid

Game 1.  I have a hand with 2 lands, 2 Relics, and some draw.  I keep on the play and play a Top.  He leads off with Bazaar which prompts my second land leading into active Relic.  He doesn't Bazaar on his upkeep, instead dredging and then dropping a second Bazaar.  I let him process the first Bazaar activation, then Relic him in response to the second.  I do that because he had 2 Bridge from Below, 2 Dread Return, FKZ, and 2 Nacromeobae; at that point, I couldn't outrace a horde of zombies.  His second Bazaar activation finds dredgers, so we soldier on.

On my next turn, I drop my second relic, which prompts him to call the judge and check my deck reg sheet.  I guess in a way this is understandable, especially for players with more of a background in Standard than Vintage.  Still, I couldn't help but be a bit taken aback, having stayed with Vintage for so long in part because of its richly deserved reputation as the gentleman's format.  We resolve that issue and I Relic away his remaining Dread Return and Bridge from Belows as soon as they appear.  He dies without any further threats.

Game 2.  We talk about Leyline of the Void's declining popularity in sideboards, which is of course a good setup for double Leyline out of my deck in my first seven.  Most Ichorid lists don't use Reverent Silence anymore, so I felt safe relying on that opening without any counter backup.  I kill him with the Painter combo shortly thereafter.

Round 4 vs. Ray Robillard, Staxless Stax

Game 1.  I forget my opening hand, but it must have been solid on mana since there was obviously no question as to what I was facing.  Ray gets out a Thorn of Amethyst in the early turns and I get a Painter's Servant.  Intermittent Wastelands and dead draws on both sides make the match drag on for a while, then Ray drops Chalice at 1.  That locks out Grindstone being directly played, but also blocks Welder on his side.  He follows up with Magus of the Moon and Soldevi Simulacrum, and starts to put some damage on me.  Dueling Sensei Tops keep us both digging.  He finds Trike, which I Force.

I work a long while to assemble Tinker off a Seat of the Synod, an Island, and a Mana Crypt.  By this point my life total is average, I think 13.  I have the option of getting Grindstone and finishing him with the Painter combo, which I'm certain he doesn't have an answer to, or getting Colossus and winning one turn slower.  I opt (wrongly) for Grindstone, worried that if I lose all remaining Mana Crypt rolls and take damage from Ray's counterattacks, I might lose.  That was the wrong plan because I could have sacrificed the Crypt and blocked with Painter.

So, in comes Grindstone.  I know Ray's top 2 draws aren't relevant because they'd been on top of his library for a while.  He digs at the end of my turn and finds Trike.  Trike kills Painter and from there I don't have anything else.

Game 2.  In similar fashion, I don't recall the opening of Game 2, but things eventually reach the point where I have a small mana base and Grindstone; Ray has Sphere of Resistance, and there's Chalice on 1.  I get Painter down and grind Ray, thinking I've put this game away.  He flips Blessing as his second card.  I guess everyone didn't forget about Painter after all.  Well, damn.  Guess I shouldn't have boarded out my Relics.

He follows up with Chalice at 2.  He drops Gorilla Shaman and for some reason I use a Mox to play Painter's Servant when I had sufficient mana anyway.  Ray punishes me for my mistake by eating my Mox along with my Grindstone, but then offers a conciliatory gesture and attacks into my Painter's Servant with his Shaman. 

The game goes on a bit longer, and Magus of the Moon again makes an appearance, my single Island protecting me from being locked out.  I get Viashino Heretic onto the board and start to blow away Ray's lock pieces.  Desperate to pull ahead, Ray taps out to play Memory Jar, but then realizes his mistake and pops it before I can untap and kill it.  I draw Tinker and Will in my Jar hand, eliminating Tinker/DSC as my hope of winning.  In the next turn, I play Jet, Lotus, Grindstone and pass.  I Vamp on his upkeep, Thirst my Ancestral into my hand, Grind him and respond to the trigger with Ancestral, as the last way I had to win outside of a hardcast DSC against Stax with a Shaman on the board.  Whew.

Game 3.  Well after the epic struggle of the last 2 games, this one turns out to be anti-climactic as Ray leads off with Workshop -> Trinisphere and follows up with Shaman, Sword of Fire and Ice.  I try to fight back, but then Ray plays Triskelion.

Round 5 vs. Josh Cutler, Oath

Game 1.  My hand is stocked with counters, which I know I'll need since I haven't brought much against Oath.  I stop his first two Oaths, and bring his life total down with Orchard tokens.  He plays and uses EE at 0 to stabilize, and then forces through a third Oath.  I try to race Akroma/Hellkite with Painter/Grindstone and a Relic on the table, but he has Wipe Away.

Game 2.  He opens with turn 1 Orchard/Mox/Oath and a counter for my attempt to race again.  Welp, so much for that.

Round 6.  Jeff Carpenter, Tidespout Oath

Game 1.  This match is a whole different animal since his threats are susceptible to REB whereas Akroma isn't.  I open with 3 Moxes, a TFK, and no lands.  I announce and play them one at a time, to make him think I'm baiting.  He doesn't have a counter, and I draw into a land and a Top.  Soon after, my Thoughtcast engine is in full swing and I stop two Oaths and a Show and Tell (!). 

Jeff stays in the race with 2 Deep Analyses, and blocks a Vampiric Tutor with an impressive play of a flashbacked Krosan Reclamation, but I put this away in similar fashion to other matchups.  Once I resolve a couple Thirsts and Thoughtcasts, I'm ahead on every front and Yawgmoth's Will becomes game-breaking.

Game 2.  My memory of this game isn't as clear, but I think I ended it very quickly.  My deck can produce some stupid draws.

Top 8 vs. Bill Copes, Stax

Game 1.  This game is long and frustrating for both of us since he can't find land and I can't find red to support REB.  He wins the race to be effective and kills me with Karn + lock pieces at 1 life after winning a Mana Crypt roll that determined the game.

Game 2.  I bring in a lot of artifact removal and 2 Pithing Needles.  Man, are those good.  I have some time to set up against Bill this game, and I get my manabase underneath me.  I Pithing Needle on Wasteland and then play an Academy that taps for 4.  That drives a few draw spells, which spells the end for most Workshop decks in most situations.  Once I get to hardcasting Ingot Chewers, I know I've got this one.

Game 3.  He leads off with an early Welder, and I respond in kind with Pithing Needle.  He digs with Bazaar while I do the same with Top.  I find Pithing Needle, hit Bazaar, and he mentally concedes at this point.  To make sure, I dropped Old Man of the Sea to lock out Goblin Welder. 

The game drags on, but at some junctures he advises me on how best to play against his deck and shows me a handful of cards he either can't cast or can't use because of Needle. 

Top 4 vs. Micah Greenbaum, Bomberman

Game 1.   I don't have the best recollection of this match, but I do remember that REB and my draw engine were indispensable.  In the first game, I used Sensei Top to assemble a variety of artifacts and only had to deal with Lotus -> Salvagers as a major threat to throw counters into.  Painter + Grindstone wins this one.

Game 2.  He tries to drop Aven Mindcensor on me at one point, which was unexpected.  I had enough counters to take care of it, and have double REB up for backup.  I use DSC to win here because I had a feeling he boarded in some defense against Grindstone.

Finals vs. Rich, Mystic Remora

Game 1.  I mull to 6 and keep a one land, one cantrip hand that never goes anywhere until it's far too late.  I have a lot of time to pull back into the game but it never matters.

Game 2.  My mana is still a little on the slow side and I have a counter-light hand.  I figure that's okay since he seldom has early threats.  He drops Energy Flux, which was horrendous.  I try to hang on but I had very little chance from there unless I drew and resolved REB on E. Flux, neither of which happened.


In sum, I think this list's principal shortcoming is mana stability.  Virtually every time I had major troubles in a matchup, they were in some way related to my mana base.  Thoughtcast is especially bad in these situations, since without mana-producing artifacts, it's extremely far out of reach.  Additionally, the deck has major vulnerabilities to Null Rod, which didn't come up, and Welder/Shaman, which appeared at different times.  My countermeasures for them were very useful, though.  In the future I might reconfigure the deck to run some number of defenses to those cards in the mainboard, and include 1 or 2 more in the SB if possible.

Furthermore, my ability to go off like a combo deck makes me wonder if a Storm spell would be useful.  This is doubly true now that the list is public and people will be more likely to have defenses against Grindstone in their SB.  Empty the Warrens was, until the very last minute, a card in my sideboard until I cut it for Old Man of the Sea.  As a way to win that isn't artifact-based and follows a slightly different line of play, it might prove useful.

In closing I want to thank Cesar Fernandez for devising the Thoughtcast engine and getting the entire process started.  I also want to thank Rich for his help in testing the list and as always, being an extremely valuable teammate.  I want to acknowledge Brassman for his excellent Vintage theory, which continues to be a significant resource for me.  Lastly, Myriad games provided, as usual, an appealing and organized tournament venue.

See you in Cambridge next week.

Demonic Attorney
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« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 12:24:23 am by Demonic Attorney » Logged

nineisnoone
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 12:52:02 am »

Congrats on the list.  I did something similar with Bomberman. 

I have some questions.... why not the full 4 Seat of Synods?  I had considering going down to 3, but in the end I just found the strength of affinity was too much to trade away.  Null Rod is still going to be a very strong counter to this deck even without any Seat of Synods.  So I ended up just realizing that I might as well just maximize the power, and just take the hit when Null Rod happens.  Even if they are shut down, they still pitch to Thirst and reduce Thoughcast.

Did you ever wish Relic was Crypt?  Or did the ability to blank a Tarmogoyf always make it the perferred card?

And what is with the rise of Old Man of the Sea over Threads of Disloyalty?  Old Man dies to creature removal and has summoning sickness.  That alone makes me think that it is not as good.  I would think that there are more good creatures with power greater than 2 and a casting cost of 2 or less (any Zoo bear equipped with Skullclamp, Tarmogoyf, Wild Nacatl) than good creatures with a power of 2 or less and a casting cost of 3 or more (Trinket Mage and Salvagers). 
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009, 02:18:04 am »

"Virtually every time I had major troubles in a matchup, they were in some way related to my mana base." 

Is there a reason you didn't run ponder?  To me, not using Ponder is along the same lines as not using Ancestral and Brainstorm
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 02:30:46 am »

You don't want any Trinket Mages in here? Seems rather good. You could easily cut a Relic, a Top, and something else for 2 Mages and an Engineered Explosives.
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 05:06:18 am »

Quite interesting decklist. Thoughcast is a powerfull cards and I thinks it has a chance to become more and more played. All blue mages are searching some replacements since the Brainstorm ban. It can be good choice (even if it is not the same thing at all for sure).
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 08:35:33 am »

Congrats for the result! Amazing weekend for the Tohughtcasts...I've just Top8ed again with Tezzeret's Time, this time, finishing in the Top4 due to my own fails in a Hermit Combo matchup. So far my results with Vault/Key/Thoughtcast:

- 5º, Gran final de la LMV - Tezzeret's Time
- Winner, 2º Torneo LMV2 - Tezzeret's Time
- Winner, 3º Torneo LMV2 - Tezzeret's Time
- 5-3, 29º, XXVIII Open de Madrid - Tezzeret's Time
- 3-3, 4º Torneo LMV2 - Tezzeret's Time
- Top4, 5º Torneo LMV2 - Tezzeret's Time

This time I've made some changes in order to win the Fish matchup, those were simply including Tinker/Titan, and I won the only Fish  matchup thanks to that two times.

Surprisingly, even with this results, here in Spain, I'm still the only player piloting the deck in tournaments.

Your list is similar to what i first played with Time vault/voltiac key, Voltaic Painters, a deck designed for a tournament 2 days before the publishing of Tezzeret(with the difference that I included Vault/key):

Voltaic Painters - César Fernández
     
4x Volcanicl Island
2x Underground Sea
3x  PollutedDelta
1x Flooded Strand
1x Tolarian Academy
4x Seat of thew Synd
1x Mox Emerald     
1x Mox Jet                 
1x Mox Sapphire     
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby             
1x Mana VAult
1x Mana Crypt
1x Black Lotus
1x Ancestral Recall

1x Merchant Scroll
1x Brainstorm
1x Vampíric Tutor

1x Demonic Tutor
 1x Yawgmoth's Will

1x Time Walk
1x Time Vault           

1x Voltaic Key
2x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Painters SErvant
2x Grindstone
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Pyroblast
2x Mana Drain
1x Misdirection
4x FoW
4x Thoughtcast
4x Thirst for knowledge

I finished 12th out of 80 players with a 6-2 performance, I lost against two Null Rod OAth decklists.

At the end of that tournament, I understood that these two win conditions didn't fit each other, the difference to your decklist, is that we thought differently. I believed that Vault/Key, was stronger than Painter's Grindstone.

We've been working on a PainterCast list since the end of December, and we are going to play it in the next tournament, not me, but a friend of mine. I'll try to post you the results if it finally works fine.


....All blue mages are searching some replacements since the Brainstorm ban...

There we have my point! I just needed to have something to make the deck faster, and Thoughtcast was the answer
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 09:16:58 am by CHaPuZaS » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2009, 09:18:05 am »

Congrats Cesar! Another top 8. The deck is really consistent. Any place to get your last decklist?

 Wink
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009, 09:41:47 am »

They will be published this week, and i'll send them to deckcheck.net by the way, the deck has so few changes that is this same decklist:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=21776

With this changes:

Maindeck:

- 2 Polluted Delta
- 1 Misdirection
- 1 Sensei's Divning Top

+ 2 Bloodstained Mire
+ 1 Tinker
+ 1 Sundering Titan

Sideboard:

- 1 Duress

+1 ThoughtSeize

EDIT: Corrected, 5 Thoughtcasts were way too much of a draw engine, ThoughtSeize in the place of a Duress, makes much more sense.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 01:46:40 pm by CHaPuZaS » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 10:12:32 am »

Quote
why not the full 4 Seat of Synods?

It's true that Null Rod is still huge against this list even with only 2 SotS.  However, I do think that running more lands that don't get shut off by Null Rod helps a little.  What's more important is that my entire manabase doesn't die to Gorilla Shaman or Magus of the Moon.  This was especially important against Ray, who got both of those cards in play against me.  My singleton Island allowed me to stay in the game and come back to win, whereas if it was a SotS, I just would have died.

Quote
Did you ever wish Relic was Crypt?  Or did the ability to blank a Tarmogoyf always make it the perferred card?

Relic does a few other things that Crypt doesn't.  First, it presents a pretty much permanent defense against Welder trying to weld out your threats, since you can tap it to target yourself and choose whatever card in your graveyard they're trying to weld in.  Second, it cycles, which made me much more comfortable running it maindeck against decks like Fish that aren't hurt by graveyard removal.  Third, its 1cc means Ichorid's Chalices can't lock it out, which is very important. 

Quote
And what is with the rise of Old Man of the Sea over Threads of Disloyalty?

Old Man allows you to stall for a long time against Fish.  As Rich's report indicates, he's not a perfect answer since they run Tarmogoyf.  But I think it's better than Threads because he essentially cuts Fish's offense down to only Goyf; anything else you can steal and throw in front of other attackers.  You're right that he's susceptible to creature removal, but my thinking is that if Fish is bringing in creature removal against me, they're diluting their other disruption cards, which I'm far more worried about anyway.  In that sense, Old Man is doing what I want him to do against Fish even in the sideboarding process-- he's buying time.

Quote
Is there a reason you didn't run ponder?  To me, not using Ponder is along the same lines as not using Ancestral and Brainstorm

Because this deck is an artifact-themed deck and relies on affinity to make Thioughtcast cost as little mana as possible.  Sensei Top generates a similar effect to Ponder, but increases my artifact count.

Quote
You don't want any Trinket Mages in here? Seems rather good. You could easily cut a Relic, a Top, and something else for 2 Mages and an Engineered Explosives.

Trinket Mage would give me more of a defense against creatures, but I figured Painter already contributed that.  Aside from that, I didn't want to lower the overall artifact count.  T. Mage does fetch another artifact for me, but it'd be slower going getting it into play after investing 2U in Mage, making the deck slightly less explosive.

Quote
Congrats for the result! Amazing weekend for the Tohughtcasts...I've just Top8ed again with Tezzeret's Time, this time, finishing in the Top4 due to my own fails in a Hermit Combo matchup.

Thanks!  I'm really glad we're both enjoying continued success with the Thoughtcast concept.  Have you devised any other strategies against Null Rod or Oath?  I saw from your post that you had some trouble with them recently, as well.
 
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009, 11:10:45 am »

I let him process the first Bazaar activation, then Relic him in response to the second.  I do that because he had 2 Bridge from Below, 2 Dread Return, FKZ, and 2 Nacromeobae; at that point, I couldn't outrace a horde of zombies.

If this is exactly how the turn went down, I think you're better off waiting to Relic in response to Dread Return - as it'll clear his board of 3 creatures and also the graveyard.  I know it's probably minor in this case, but just wanted to point it out.
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2009, 11:21:37 am »

They will be published this week, and i'll send them to deckcheck.net by the way, the deck has so few changes that is this same decklist:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=21776

With this changes:

Maindeck:

- 2 Polluted Delta
- 1 Misdirection
- 1 Sensei's Divning Top

+ 2 Bloodstained Mire
+ 1 Tinker
+ 1 Sundering Titan

Sideboard:

- 1 Duress

+1 Thoughtcast

4 Thoughtcast main and 1 in your sideboard. I think it's a typo error isnt it?

 Wink

Muchas gracias!
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2009, 06:05:18 pm »

"Set adrift in a sea of uncertainty without the familiar comfort of pseudo-Ancestral, many longtime blue-based players floundered while trying to find a suitable replacement"

Serriously? Been reading a lot of Jack Kerouac lately? LOL
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Harlequin
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2009, 06:28:22 pm »

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Round 6.  Jeff Carpenter, Tidespout Oath

Game 1.  This match is a whole different animal since his threats are susceptible to REB whereas Akroma isn't.  I open with 3 Moxes, a TFK, and no lands.  I announce and play them one at a time, to make him think I'm baiting.  He doesn't have a counter, and I draw into a land and a Top.  Soon after, my Thoughtcast engine is in full swing and I stop two Oaths and a Show and Tell (!). 

Jeff stays in the race with 2 Deep Analyses, and blocks a Vampiric Tutor with an impressive play of a flashbacked Krosan Reclamation, but I put this away in similar fashion to other matchups.  Once I resolve a couple Thirsts and Thoughtcasts, I'm ahead on every front and Yawgmoth's Will becomes game-breaking.

Game 2.  My memory of this game isn't as clear, but I think I ended it very quickly.  My deck can produce some stupid draws.

Game 1 you did have three forces for Oath, Show and Tell, Oath.  Granted they were broken up by Thirst, Thirst, Thoughtcast - so I was way way behind on cards.

Game 2 was the game where I had the DA's and the Krosan.  This game was closer, but my deck had very little in the way of actualy card advantage - so against x4 Thirst, x4 Thougtcast I'm really at a major disadvantage. 


At any rate, good games, and good work making it to the finals!
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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2009, 02:16:01 am »

I played this to a 1st at a small round robin in Cambridge tonight.  I made some small adjustments:

-1 TFK (ugh)
-1 Thoughtcast (good, but not good enough early)
-1 Grindstone (wait for it)
-1 Relic of Progenitus (almost there)
-1 Sensei's Divining Top (...)

+1 Trinket Mage (ahh, that's better)
+1 Voltaic Key
+1 Time Vault
+1 Ponder
+1 Mana Vault

Trinket Mage was a natural fit and smoothed out some of the artifact selection.  Mana Vault and Ponder helped the early game (also, 23 sources didn't seem like enough).  The vault/key combo was to allow a lower mana cost two card combo and since I thought trinket mage would be better than grindstone.  I was pleased with the selection, but I have no idea if it's right.

As for the deck, DA, thanks for the list, it's quite solid.  My gripes are that (1) duress/seize are strictly better than REB for the majority of cases I see, (2) color selection in general was difficult in this deck and (3) thoughtcast was never good enough early enough.  Oh, and TFK is fucking terrible.

If this deck survives to the midgame it can do a great job of turning the corner into chain draw > combo.  However, it's not good at winning an early counter war and I had trouble developing the manabase against workshops (disclaimer: I've been playing a 4c monstrosity that folds to 2x waste until recently).

I do think that the solid mix of good cheap artifacts printed lately will eventually find critical mass in some deck with thoughtcast, I just don't know what that list looks like yet.  I hope it doesn't have master transmuter guy in it (paging Travis Laplant).

FYI, the rounds went: Dawn of Dead (W), 4c Fish (W), red stax (L), TPS (W), red stax (W)
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