Animus Apparatus

[thorme]

Animus Apparatus
4
Artifact
3:  Place the top card of your library face down into play as a 2/2 creature.  Play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery.



Seems simple enough - I'm assuming there isn't a big issue with a morph critter w/o a morph cost, but could be wrong.  The issues I see are:

- It isn't clear whether the controller gets to look at the card or not. 
- If so, could they unmorph such a card if they used the apparatus and the top card actually had an unmorph cost.

My take is that without anything different being specified, the answer to each question is "no"...just not sure if that would be clear.

Its costed pretty low compared to similar creature generators, although the sorcery-speed restriction should be somewhat painful.  Thoughts?



Current Wording:

Animus Apparatus
4
Artifact
3:  Look at the top card of your library and place it face down into play as a 2/2 creature.  Play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery.

[Matt]

If you can't look at it, no, you can't unmorph it. I think?

Why not just fix both issues at once:

3:  Look at the top card of your library and place it face down into play as a 2/2 creature.  Play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery.

[Nefarias]

504.3. At any time, you may look at a face-down spell you control on the stack, a face-down permanent you control, or a face-down card in the phased-out zone you controlled when it phased out. You can’t look at face-down cards in any other zone, face-down spells or permanents controlled by another player, or face-down cards in the phased-out zone last controlled by another player. The ability or rules that allow a permanent to be face down may also allow the permanent’s controller to turn it face up. Spells normally can’t be turned face up.

So the answer to both of your questions is actually "yes."

I don't think the game actually cares or even differentiates how they got that way, which is probably why Illusionary Mask now uses the mask counters. That being said, I think that that is actually the biggest rules problem with the card: differentiating it from Morphs. If you're playing with both Morphs and this, you need to be able to clearly differentiate at all time which one came into play with which method; otherwise, people could play Islands as Morphs. I'm aware that part of the rule of Morphs is to clearly identify the order in which they came into play, but that is not only an easier task, but also a much less serious one should you lose track somewhere along the way.

The easiest solution is probably to take a tip from Illusionary Mask and use some sort of marking counter.

[thorme]

Yeah, I could use counters of some sort, but one of the reasons I like the card is it's simplicity...I'm inclined to let the rules treat these as they do morphs and have people keep track of the order if that is needed.

And I should have mentioned this up top, but the reasons for the card at all is that I think it has the following going for it over other critter generators:

- No fooling around w/ tokens (I actually think the game flows smoother this way)
- Better against bounce
- Better w/ effects that let you know what's on the top of you library (so you turn unwanted cards into grey ogres)

[chrissss]

I like the idea, it would combo well with cards that allow you to return permanents back to your hand.

[Norm4eva]

I like the card, it reminds me of the "Words Of" cycle from Onslaught, and I always wanted that cycle to be better than it was.

I don't know if I like adding Yet Another Way of putting face-down things into play, though.  It should really put like Animus counters (or something) on them, as somewhat established by Mask's counters and morph's rule about multiple face-down guys.

[thorme]

I like the card, it reminds me of the "Words Of" cycle from Onslaught, and I always wanted that cycle to be better than it was.

I don't know if I like adding Yet Another Way of putting face-down things into play, though.  It should really put like Animus counters (or something) on them, as somewhat established by Mask's counters and morph's rule about multiple face-down guys.

I hear you.  My intent was to have these be morph creatures (which just had no unmorph capability) and be governed by the same rules as morphs.  Just not sure how to specify that while keeping the card as simple as possible.

[Matt]

Why not just fix both issues at once:

3:  Look at the top card of your library and place it face down into play as a 2/2 creature.  Play this ability only any time you could play a sorcery.

[Norm4eva]

Thing of it is, is it's got to be able to distinguish itself from other face-down permanents, lest we get into weird 3-card Monty situations which is exactly what morph's "counters beyond the first" rule smites.  There are cards like bad bad Spy Network which lets you look at face-down creatures, and so knowing one's a Voidmage Prodigy and one's a Gush is going to help you decide what to do during combat.  The opponent isn't allowed to shuffle his FDCs around and make you guess where the Gush is.

It probably needs to go on the card as reminder text or something, just because it's part of the rules of the game with Morph, but IIRC that only applies to Morph creatures, there's not like a general rule for marking each FDC in the order they come into play.  If there is it doesn't matter but if not the card needs more words on it.

[jeek]

How would this interact with Astral Slide and Backslide?

[zeus-online]

Or other cards which could turn them face up? Clearly you can't have a wrath of god in play.

/Zeus

[thorme]

Clearly you can't have a wrath of god in play.

Too bad...a walking, talking Wrath of God would be something to behold!

Yeah, looks like there are some issues w/ the card that would probably require adding a bunch of text or changing it altogether to do something like mill you for one and put a 2/2 token into play.  Not a fan of either option, so I'm content to consign the card to the "better-luck-next-time" bin.

[zeus-online]

How about removing the card from the game, and then put in a 2/2 token...if the token is destroyed, the card that was removed will be put into the graveyard? It might be a bit difficult to keep track of, but i think it's do-able. Oh and it could be removed face down if you want to hide what it is... Could be fun with flashback cards

Or maybe you could play the card if the token where to leave play? Either with or without paying the mana cost....If it's done "without paying the mana cost" the card probably need to be a bit more expensive mana-wise. That'd be great for casual players.

/Zeus

[Darkenslight]

I like the flavour, but if you're going the 'play this card' route, it needs to add "When the token leaves play, you may pay  .  If you do, you may play the card revealed without paying its mana cost.  Otherwise, remove that card from the game."

Or something similar.