ichorid activation cost question

[Ajare]

I'm playing ichorid on MWS, T1 he plays bazaar and puts ichorid, stinkweed imp, and something irrelevant into his graveyard. At the start of his next upkeep, he announces he places ichorid ability on stack, and responds by activating bazaar and dredging the lone stinkweed imp in his yard. I point out that if he's placing the ichorid's activated ability, he must pay all costs associated with the use of said ability upon announcement, in which case imp would be RFGd and thus he would not be able to dredge it in response to ichorid recursion ability. He insisted that he's 100% sure, and that I should 'lern the rulz'. Am I wrong here? As far as I know, things that include sacrificing something as part of the cost of ability mean that whatever is sacrificed is sacrificed immediately, and not upon resolution of the ability (eg. you can't tap black lotus for mana and in response bounce it etc.), I woul'dve thought that ichorid's activated ability would function no differently.

Thanks for your help.

[Yare]

Ichorid

Creature - Horror 3/1, 3B (4)
Haste
At end of turn, sacrifice Ichorid.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if Ichorid is in your graveyard, you may remove a black creature card in your graveyard other than Ichorid from the game. If you do, return Ichorid to play.

Your opponent was right. The difference is between activated and triggered abilities. With activated abilites, you have to pay the cost upon activation. Ichorid, however, has a triggered ability. With triggered abilities, the "cost" has to be "paid" when the triggered ability resolves. Basically, when the triggered ability resolves, your opponent THEN gets to choose whether he'll sacrifice or not. So, just having the triggered ability trigger will not require him to sacrifice then and there. In fact, the triggered ability will trigger every turn and resolve every turn, even if he chooses not to remove a creature in his graveyard from the game.

410.5. Some triggered abilities’ effects are optional (they contain “may,” as in “At the beginning of your upkeep, you may draw a card”). These abilities go on the stack when they trigger, regardless of whether their controller intends to exercise the ability’s option or not. The choice is made when the ability resolves. Likewise, triggered abilities that have an effect “unless” something is true or a player chooses to do something will go on the stack normally; the “unless” part of the ability is dealt with when the ability resolves.

[Ajare]

Cool, thanks for the comprehensive answer clearing up the fact that it's a triggered ability that includes an optional effect, rather than the optional effect being an activated ability. Really appreciate your help.

Sorry to whoever I was playing, I guess that I really should learn the rules

On the bright side, things will be better next time I play Ichorid myself

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

Yare,

How come Ichorid doesn't have to follow the "when/whenever/at" rule of triggered abilities, if it's triggered? It seems more like a  static ability using the key word "if", which is part of the "if/instead" rules, of static abilities. In reality, I agree with you 100% and have even allowed someone to Stifle it on me a couple of weeks ago, but by the rules it doesn't make sense. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!!


On a side note, as dumb as this is about to look when typed out, I feel as though if it was an activated ability it would look more like something like this, on Ichirid:

Remove a black creature card, that isn't Ichorid, in your graveyard from the game: Return Ichorid to play under it's owners control. Play this ability only at the begining of your upkeep and only if Ichorid is in your graveyard.

It looks really old school written like that. That's why I feel like I have to be missing something here.

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

Rereading what I just wrote, I think I answered my own question. It's the word "At" in "At the beginning..." that's what makes it triggered, isn't it?

[Yare]

Ichorid has a triggered ability (two actually) and has no activated abilities at all. The difference here is that there is just a choice to make when the triggered ability resolves, that's it. The "at" is what makes it triggered, even though there are all these other things that might change what ultimately happens (or doesn't happen).

Here's (maybe) a real life example:

Let's say you like pizza. You can set up two different plans with the pizza guy to get your pizza. Either 1) you call him when you want a pizza and he sends the pizza or 2) he shows up every Wednesday and when he gets there, you decide whether you want a pizza. Calling him is like an activated ability; unless you do something, you're not gonna get a pizza. Having him show up on Wednesday is like a triggered ability; he's going to show up no matter what you do because it's Wednesday. Whether you intend to buy a pizza when he gets there or not is irrelevant. However, once he shows up, you get the choice of whether you want to buy a pizza or not right then and there. That's what the "may" part of Ichorid's ability does.

I also have no idea if that example was helpful or completely inane.

[MagicIsCardboardCrack]

OOPS. Yea I meant triggered, that was actually a typo. In my 1st post I even put "at" means triggered.

[oneofchaos]

Ichorid has a triggered ability (two actually) and has no activated abilities at all. The difference here is that there is just a choice to make when the triggered ability resolves, that's it. The "at" is what makes it triggered, even though there are all these other things that might change what ultimately happens (or doesn't happen).

Here's (maybe) a real life example:

Let's say you like pizza. You can set up two different plans with the pizza guy to get your pizza. Either 1) you call him when you want a pizza and he sends the pizza or 2) he shows up every Wednesday and when he gets there, you decide whether you want a pizza. Calling him is like an activated ability; unless you do something, you're not gonna get a pizza. Having him show up on Wednesday is like a triggered ability; he's going to show up no matter what you do because it's Wednesday. Whether you intend to buy a pizza when he gets there or not is irrelevant. However, once he shows up, you get the choice of whether you want to buy a pizza or not right then and there. That's what the "may" part of Ichorid's ability does.

I also have no idea if that example was helpful or completely inane.

From now on I want all rulings to have real life analogies like this please.