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Author Topic: Double First Place: ELD's Mox, Scholar's Vintage  (Read 3790 times)
Demonic Attorney
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« on: May 05, 2009, 10:32:44 pm »

There comes a time in every Vintage player's career when they have to reassess their strategies.  That happened for me at Waterbury, after being completely destroyed while running Remoratog into a field with better disruption, better draw engines, and infinitely superior threats.  During Remoratog's heyday, its main advantage was its superior control resources; it ran 11 counters to most decks' 7-8.  In addition, 3 of Remoratog's counters, Commandeer, served offensive purposes.  But, with Commandeer's potential applications as a threat came significant drawbacks.  After getting 3-for-1'd twice after my Commandeer was REB'd twice in the same matchup, I decided it was time to move on.  Seeing that even standard Tezzeret lists now ran more counters that were cheaper and more efficient than Remoratog's resources made that decision even easier.

There was the usual process of investigating cool, tricky concepts revolving around unexplored or newly-printed cards like Esperzoa, but at the end of that process, there was no denying that Time Vault/Key was just better than any other archetype in Vintage today.  As I play the deck more and more, I'm starting to wonder if it's better than any archetype in Vintage history (with the exception of the stupid days of unrestricted Urza block cards like Tolarian Academy).  At the end of the process, I joined the growing ranks of Tezzeret players in Type One.

Fast forward to ELD's Mox this past Saturday.  I'd had 1 moderately successful outing with Tez, taking Top 4 at Myriad Games shortly beforehand.  Having a model I felt comfortable with meant I didn't need to do much testing the night before to refine my list; instead, I spent more time thinking about what to put in the sideboard, since long-absent deck types are seeing a resurgence in the current metagame, i.e. Long.  The morning of the event, I was left with this:

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Thirst for Knowledge
4 Night's Whisper
2 Tezzeret, the Seeker
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Rebuild
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Yawgmoth's Will
Time Vault
Voltaic Key
Merchant Scroll
Brainstorm
Ponder
Tinker
Fact or Fiction
Gifts Ungiven

3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
2 Island
5 Mox
Sol Ring
Lotus
Crypt
Vault
Library
Academy

SB:

2 Yixlid Jailer
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Pyroclasm
1 Trinisphere
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 The Abyss
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Energy Flux

Round 1 vs. Bomberman

I never do find out what deck my opponent is playing, but he tells me after the fact that he was running Bomberman.

Game 1.  My memory of this match isn't very clear.  I remember Trinket Mage made an appearance at some point, but it might have been in the second game.

Game 2.  In this game, I Yawgmoth's Willed into Ancestral, Time Walk, and hardcast Darksteel Colossus from Academy and a multitude of artifacts.  He attempted to bounce the big man, which I allowed to happen and then replayed him next turn.

Round 2 vs. Andystok, Tezzeret

Andystok was my first opponent in competitive Vintage, back in the summer of 2005 during one of the last big events at the store in Centerville.  Slaver was just ganining ground back then, and we were both playing our own versions.  Now in 2009, we're paired again, each with our own version of the dominant Vintage concept.

Game 1.  He opens with Library of Alexandra and I know I don't have long before I get buried.  I have 2 lands, a Mox, a REB, a Time Walk, Academy, and a DT in hand.  I want to set up DT/Walk, Tinker with REB backup to either try to steal the game on a DSC, or at least knock Stok off LoA long enough to pull back into the game with draw spells.

Problematically, Stok plays Gorilla Shaman and eats my Mox, ruining that plan.   My Academy does nothing for me and I draw dead for at least half a dozen turns while Stok goes crazy off his Library, and builds an enormous board.  I succeed in drawing one additional land during this time.  He plays FOF at the end of my turn, and my hand is Drain, REB, Force, Gifts, DT, and Key.  I let it hit, wanting to conserve all my resources for the futile counterwar when he made his move.

He revealed Ancestral, Lotus, VT, DT, and something else.  I think it might have been Will.  I give him the tutors and whatever the 5th card was, knowing my one hope is to bottleneck his mana to get either one last turn to do something or, less likely, win a counterwar with triple counter up.  As it turns out, that's just what happened.  He burned a lot of his cards setting up and then went for YawgWill.  I Drained, he Drained, I REB'd, he Forced, and I Forced, getting ready to scoop 'em up, only to hear those magic words, "What did I do wrong?" as the Will was placed into his graveyard.

On my turn, I used the Drain mana to drop Key and DT for Vault, playing it with 1 mana still to spare.   Wow.   Usually this stuff only happens to my teammate.

Game 2.  I don't have as good a recollection here.  His Gorilla Shaman plus five mana presented an annoying obstacle to what would have otherwise been a swift win with Tezzeret.  Instead, I went the roundabout way of setting up a huge Yawgmoth's Will, dropping Moxes the turn beforehand to fuel TFK's.  Some cards were discarded, but all that stuff came roaring back the next turn when I played Time Walk.

Seeing the writing on the wall, Stok destroyed some of my artifacts on the ensuing turn after Will resolved, but in doing so he took himself off the 5 mana needed to neutralize my Time Vault.  I played Ancestral, Night's Whisper, 3 Moxes, Academy, Walk, Vault and then dropped Tez the following turn.  In fairness to Stok, if he'd kept the 5 mana up, I was prepared to go the Tinker route.

Round 3 vs. Jeff Carpenter, Selkie Strike Fish

Game 1.  Turn 1 or 2 Null Rod with counter backup is difficult for most decks to recover from.  Throw in some strip effects and mine is no different.

SB: -1 FOF, -1 Gifts, -1 Drain, -1 Thirst, -1 Tez +2 Pyroclasm +1 The Abyss +2 Pithing Needle

Game 2.  He's stalled early on but keeps blue sources up, leading me to expect Stifles.  Eventually I make my move into an Aven Mindcensor, which I'm able to later remove with Pyroclasm.  I then try to get there with Tinker, but due to my own exceedingly poor planning, it doesn't work.

Round 4 vs. Jesse Martin, Combo

ID.

Top 8 vs. John Longo, Tezzeret

Game 1.  I see myself as in pretty good shape in the early turns.   I have Top, 2 lands, and a Mox in play, with 2x REB, Night's Whisper, and Drain in hand.   He goes for Ancestral, which I REB, which he MisD's pitching Thirst, which I REB, which he Forces pitching Tez.  I don't feel too badly about losing that counterwar since he's already given up most of the card advantage the AR generated.

I go to my turn and play Night's Whisper.  My thinking is that John just expended massive resources over an Ancestral, he doesn't have too many cards in hand, his mana resources are still small, and if I hit any lands off NW, I'll have Drain online.  He Drains the NW and on his turn, drops Crypt, Mox, Tinker for Lotus, DT, Will, win.  Welp.   Game 2, I guess.

Sideboard: -1 VT, +1 REB

Game 2.  We go back-and-forth for a while, with a counterwar breaking out over (I think) his Tezzeret, which I win.  I go to my turn and Tinker with 2 cards in his hand and him tapped out.  I'd seen REB out of him before so I don't want to go for Tez.  Instead I get DSC, figuring he has between 0-1 direct answers and fewer cards in his hand than I have in mind to allow him to try to mount a comeback.  He doesn't get there and it's off to Game 3.

Game 3.  Night's Whisper lets me set up some very smooth plays, like FOF with REB backup at the end of John's turn, followed up by TFK with Drain backup the next turn.  I push through Key/Vault with double counter backup while he has half the combo on the table.

Top 4 vs. Jeff Carpenter, Selkie Strike Fish

This is my chance at redemption after the Swiss.

Game 1.  Qasali Pridemage turns out to be a huge obstacle for my main avenue of offense, but I eventually get Tezzeret up to 5 counters and attack with several 5/5's, leaving Jeff at 3 with no creatures.  I then play aggressively with my life total, chaining Night's Whispers and fetchlands/Top activations down to 1 life, before finding Tinker which brings this close game to an end.

Game 2.  I get a stable manabse underneath me and get The Abyss into play.  Jeff needs to expend a lot of resources to get rid of it and I follow up by playing draw spells into a red source which puts Pyroclasm online and wipes his board.  From there I'm too far ahead for him to catch up.

Finals split with Rich Shay, Thoughtcast Tezzeret

Without much time to reflect on my recent experiences, I rushed home from work in Boston the following Monday to attend the weekly Vintage event at Scholar's in Bridgewater.  The event was heavily promoted, and so presented the opportunity to accumulate Vintage Rankings Points.  More importantly, the event would provide my first chance to meet TMD/TMC's own marske, who was looking for a sample of the competition at American Vintage events.  I was happy to oblige.

My maindeck changed by 1 card, as I dropped Gifts for a third Tezzeret.  My build wasn't really designed to use Gifts, anyway.

Round 1 vs. Goblins

Game 1.  On the play, my opening was Underground Sea, EOT Vampiric Tutor for Tinker, Mox, Sol Ring, Tinker -> DSC.  I had Time Walk in hand the turn DSC came online.  I think my opponent played a Goblin Lackey in the interim.

SB: +2 Pyroclasm, +1 The Abyss, -1 FOF, -2 REB

Game 2.  My opening is far less explosive, but features a DT along with 2 lands and a solid array of card draw.  Unfortunately my draw spells propel me in counters, which aren't as useful when Lackey is on the board and putting Goblin Ringleaders into play each turn.  I hold on in the hopes of using Pyroclasm to knock out his board if he overextends, but once he drops Earwig Squad I decide to just move this match along.

Game 3.  As ridiculous as my opening in Game 1 was, my opening in Game 3 was even better.  I opened with land, Ancestral, discard DSC.  Next turn, Academy, Crypt, Lotus, Sol Ring, Tinker, Tezzeret -> Time Vault.  Again, I think a Goblin Lackey made an appearance in the interim, but I had Mana Drain online in case he could have handled DSC and Tez.

Round 2 vs. Matt Macauley, Tezzeret

Game 1.  He opens with Library of Alexandria and I know my time is short.  I open with Night's Whisper and start building mana resources.  By turn 3 I can drop Tez with REB backup, which gets through and he can't put together the win before I get another turn (and all the others).

Sideboard: -1 Vamp, +1 REB

Game 2.  There's a lot of back-and-forth in this game with neither of us pressing an early advantage.  I think I had Voltaic Key out early, so I used that to bluff a threat for most of the game at different points.   At one juncture, Matt had a Tezzeret on the board, and during my last opportunity, I dug into DT and REB, needing to use the REB in order to untap and have access to the mana needed to put this game away.

Game 3 vs. Jesse Martin, Combo

Game 1.  Game one goes quickly as he plays Jet, Sea, Crypt, Timetwister into several rituals, DT, and Yawg Will.

Sideboard: +1 Sphere, +1 Thorn, +1 Trinisphere, +1 Relic, -1 FOF, -2 Tez, -1 Thirst

Game 2.  Game two goes a little longer but the deciding play happens about as early when I Force his Lotus and see no followup plays for several ensuing turns.  I get worried about losing to my own Mana Crypt after resolving a Sphere of Resistance to keep Jesse pinned down, but eventually Tinker comes along and saves the day.

Game 3.  This is an intense contest.  I open with Vamp at the end of Jesse's turn for Lotus into Relic of Progenitus, Trinisphere.  Trinisphere hits, and rest of the game, past the end of time and into extra turns, is spent defending the Trinisphere.  I wait on Ancestral until Jessetaps out to play an instant and can't also Misdirect, and from there I have the counter for anything he tries.

In all, I think he played 2 Hurkyl's Recall and a Rebuild.  There was one point where I could have backed up my Tezzeret with my lone counter and gambled that Jesse couldn't steal the game on his next turn, but I opted to play defensively and let the Tez get stopped.

On turn 2 of extra turns, I hardcast DSC with Jesse at 12 life.  I'm holding DT in hand at that point and make much of my despair about Jesse being at 12, hoping to induce him to pass the turn and elect for a draw or for at least another card before he makes his move on turn 5.  Whether or not that worked, Jesse does pass the turn to me, and I DT for Time Walk.  He plays Gifts in response but only has the mana to play one spell under Trinisphere, for which I have REB.

Round 4 vs. Stefan Ellsworth, Tez/Painter

Game 1.  He opens with Library, and again I need to push through an endgame move before I get buried under his card advantage.  I set up Tezzeret with REB backup, but it resolves without the need to play the REB.  On Stephan's turn, he tries to play Trinket Mage with few other cards in his hand, so I REB that figuring I won't be able to use it to stop any of his other plays if they happen to be black or artifact.  He surveys the rest of his hand and we go to Game 2.

Game 2.  He opens with Library and my hand is far less explosive.  I get Top in play and run out a Tezzeret with counter backup, which Stephan thwarts.  I dig with Top/fetches/Thirst and find that the top 3 cards of my library are Tez, Sea, Will.  My hand has a DT, I have 5 blue/colorless mana on the board and no black sources.  I wait until my next turn and run out Tezzeret while Stefan is out of LoA range; he has another Force, but pitches something significant in the process.

He takes his next turn and I draw Sea, Top into Will, play DT for Lotus, and take things home from there.  Stefan is unhappy with Vintage in its current incarnation.

Round 5 vs. Bill Copes, Metalworker Stax

I'm the only undefeated, so I'd be happy with a draw and calling it a night.  Bill has the lowest tiebreaks out of the X-1 bracket (or so he believes) and so playing it out is the best option for him.  We're off to the races.

Game 1.  I keep a hand with double Force, Night's Whisper, and some lands.  He opens with double Sphere, and from there starts churning out threats.  I Force a Metalworker and a Smokestack, and find a third Force.  I Force something else, but then Trike happens.  I draw my fourth Force and counter a followup, but the Trike is enough to get Bill there.

SB: Honestly I'm not sure beyond the obvious cuts: FOF, a Thirst, etc.  I brought in the usual suspects: Chewer, Flux.

Game 2.  I mull to 6 and keep a slow hand with a few mana sources plus Flux.  I Force something right off the bat but then find myself in a situation where I need to either Force a Metalworker pitching Energy Flux, or let it hit and hope the rest of Bill's hand isn't artifacts.  Since I think he had already developed a solid manabase at that point, I figured if he had other artifacts in his hand, he'd just play those, so I assumed Metalworker wouldn't matter that much and let it resolve, playing Flux on my turn.

As it would happen, Bill's hand had several artifacts and Flux wasn't too much of a factor.  Tangle Wire and Karn emerged shortly thereafter and I just couldn't get in either of these games. 

I finish out at 4-1 with the best tiebreaks, ending up in 1st place.  Based on the turnout, I collect around $60 store credit (not bad for a $6 entrance fee) and call it a night.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2009, 10:15:37 am by Demonic Attorney » Logged

Eastman
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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2009, 10:59:35 pm »

Great report and nice  finishes.  I really like the night's whispers.  I've thought that card has been undervalued for awhile.  So often people make the argument w/r/t Bob that night's whisper gets you the cards so much faster. It's true: whisper is often better than Bob, and Bob is still really good.  So that leaves whisper in good to excellent territory.  Plus it isn't rebable.  Nice work.

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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2009, 11:26:31 pm »

You fail at names Razz Jesse's name isn't in fact Jeff and my name is spelled Stefan but thanks for the tournament report Very Happy
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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 09:55:42 am »

First place in Magic, last place in nomenclature.  I'll make the corrections. 
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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2009, 10:49:24 am »

Congrats on the finishes and thanks for the reports!

How did marske do in the US? Did he crushed you Americans like I did?  Wink
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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2009, 12:26:43 pm »

Game 1.  Qasali Pridemage turns out to be a huge obstacle for my main avenue of offense, but I eventually get Tezzeret up to 5 counters and attack with several 5/5's, leaving Jeff at 3 with no creatures.

Is there a reason why he didn't slay Tezzeret with his men before you could use him to animate your artifacts?
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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2009, 12:33:09 pm »

He thought he could finish me off because my life total was low enough that if he attacked me with his creatures but left one back to block one of my attacking artifacts, he'd win on his next turn.  He wasn't expecting me to play aggressively and dig into Tinker.

I'll let Marius tell the tale of his tournament performance, but I'll just say that it involved Kithkin.    Wink
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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2009, 12:40:48 pm »

Game 1.  Qasali Pridemage turns out to be a huge obstacle for my main avenue of offense, but I eventually get Tezzeret up to 5 counters and attack with several 5/5's, leaving Jeff at 3 with no creatures.

Is there a reason why he didn't slay Tezzeret with his men before you could use him to animate your artifacts?

I remember the situation well.

His turn:
He played Tezz and tutored for X=2, and I stifled. Tezz now has 2 loyalty

My turn: I attack Tezz with a 0/1 Hierarch to ping him down to 1

His turn: Ramps tezz to 3 (after some thinking)

My turn: I tap out my hierrarch to play Pridemage.

Hist turn: He ramps tezz to 5, and is a 8 life.

My turn:
Hierrarch can attack for 4 with my two exaulted triggers.  Chris is at 8.  Tezz is at 5 loyalty.  My hand 2 card hand is Stifle, Hurkyls.  And my noble is untapped this turn.  He has 4 artifacts in play, and I'm at 18.
My thinking was I should risk the game on my Stifle + hurkyls being able to stop Tezz.  If I can, he's dead next turn.  If he has 2 counters, I can still chump with the hierrarch (I had 3 lands at this point).  And still only have to pass the turn once more with him at 1. 
Well as it turns out he had double counter, and in the "extra turn" I gave him, he was able to Yawg for tinker which totally boned my Pridemage beats plan (because I was at 3).
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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2009, 12:57:47 pm »

I remember the situation well.

His turn:
He played Tezz and tutored for X=2, and I stifled. Tezz now has 2 loyalty

My turn: I attack Tezz with a 0/1 Hierarch to ping him down to 1

His turn: Ramps tezz to 3 (after some thinking)

I'm still confused. Tezzeret can't go from 1 to 3 to 5.

Tezzeret the Seeker
Planeswalker — Tezzeret
+1: Untap up to two target artifacts.
-X: Search your library for an artifact card with converted mana cost X or less and put it into play. Then shuffle your library.
-5: Artifacts you control become 5/5 artifact creatures until end of turn.
Loyalty: 4
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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2009, 02:14:38 pm »

Yeah... Ok, forget the noble I think I'm mixing up two different games.  I know the last part is right though.

Quote
Hierrarch can attack for 4 with my two exaulted triggers.  Chris is at 8.  Tezz is at 5 loyalty.  My hand 2 card hand is Stifle, Hurkyls.  And my noble is untapped this turn.  He has 4 artifacts in play, and I'm at 18.
My thinking was I should risk the game on my Stifle + hurkyls being able to stop Tezz.  If I can, he's dead next turn.  If he has 2 counters, I can still chump with the hierrarch (I had 3 lands at this point).  And still only have to pass the turn once more with him at 1. 
Well as it turns out he had double counter, and in the "extra turn" I gave him, he was able to Yawg for tinker which totally boned my Pridemage beats plan (because I was at 3).

I'm not exactly sure how we got to that gamestate... Now that I think about it we might have been post-yawg, As I vaugly remember RFGing a Timevault to Yawg in response to a Tezz untap activation.
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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2009, 05:53:12 am »

HI
nice list and great finish.

Im playing TfK+NW as well and I think its the currently best draw engine.

What do you think of REB vs Duress/Thoughseize. I normally like Duress better as it is great vs. combo good vs. control and you can stay more or less 2 colored.

Abyss vs. Pyroclasm vs. Sower: Which one is best?

Do you have any game vs stax with just 2 basics and a weak SB?

Did you like the 3 spheres?
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« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2009, 05:29:56 pm »

Congrats DA!

Anyway the build looks totally insane, I really like the sideboard. It comes to no surprise you are doing so well with that build. Again I'm totally in love with the sideboard Smile.
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« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2009, 06:33:37 pm »

Yeah, I was pretty sure that you would end up winning after you merked me round 1
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 08:07:49 am »

Quote
What do you think of REB vs Duress/Thoughseize. I normally like Duress better as it is great vs. combo good vs. control and you can stay more or less 2 colored.

Abyss vs. Pyroclasm vs. Sower: Which one is best?

Do you have any game vs stax with just 2 basics and a weak SB?

Did you like the 3 spheres?

REB offers a few advantages.  First and most importantly, it can deal with Tezzeret in the one-turn window before Time Vault/Tez becomes active.  Second, using REB in a counterwar gives you a tempo advantage because your opponent has to sink resources into whatever blue spell you send your REB at; conversely, if you Duress that same card, your opponent hasn't had to pay for it.  Third, REB is very good at dealing with Commandeer and Mystic Remora, which I'd seen a little of here and there.  Lastly, the format is very swingy right now and Duress, while solid, still leaves you open to a topdecked Tezzeret or other threats that your opponent can draw into and play on the same turn.

Abyss and Pyroclasm are good together because Abyss offers a long-term solution to Fish's offense in a single card, helping you to maintain an even/favorable board.  Pyroclasm complements that by wiping out any of their disruptive creatures, allowing you to come from behind in an unfavorable board.  I don't think Sower does enough these days because my plan A isn't to win from creatures with Tez; instead I want to get rid of Fish's disruption and go for Vault/Key or Tinker/DSC.  Sower's less good at enabling my existing base gameplans.  But your mileage may vary.

Stax has consistently been a tough matchup but I don't think I need more basics in the deck.  Stax doesn't show up in large numbers and even if it did, the only thing I really need against them in terms of reliable mana is UU to fuel Drain.  As for the SB, it wasn't doing everything I wanted it to do, but I'm not sure I'd call Flux/2x Chewer weak, especially alongside maindeck Rebuild.  I'll probably rethink the Stax boarding plan all the same, though.

The Spheres did their job against Combo.  In a perfect world, I'd want Duress to complement them, but there's only so much room in 15 cards that have to also address Ichorid, Stax, Fish, and Tez.

Everyone else, thanks for the congratulations.  I think I've finally settled on a list I like.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 08:13:25 am by Demonic Attorney » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2009, 08:11:59 pm »

Nice report and nice list. I was just confused a little by this:
Quote from: Demonic Attorney
Game 2.  We go back-and-forth for a while, with a counterwar breaking out over (I think) his Tezzeret, which I win.  I go to my turn and Tinker with 2 cards in his hand and him tapped out.  I'd seen REB out of him before so I don't want to go for Tez.  Instead I get DSC, figuring he has between 0-1 direct answers and fewer cards in his hand than I have in mind to allow him to try to mount a comeback.  He doesn't get there and it's off to Game 3.
Tinker for Tezzeret? Or did you mean you opted not to cast Tezzeret? If he had been printed as an artifact, there would have been many fatally powerful tantric orgasms as Type 1 players released their pent-up expectations for that one card that does everything and works with everything in their decks.
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