anti-goyf-ism

[TheRogue]

its my belief due to the popularity of tarmogoyf you can divide magic players into two camp, the with goyfs and without goyfs.

i have experienced bothsides of the fence.

non-goyfs look for intuitive ways to deal with it as almost every tournament you go to you will find a deck running a tarmogoyf. personally i think these are the craftier players.

Pro-goyfs just use goyf for what it is a low cost heavy hitter who can hit people without a goyf on the field or stall a game for a while by having two goyfs face off against each other in a possible never ending combat. reduces the need for innovative stadegy somewhat when you deck needs tactically strong creatures which is why tarmogoyf is so good. personally when i play goyf in a deck a chuck in sword of fire and ice or jitte to give my goyf the upper hand.

but this thread is more tuned to anti goyf. no i'm not here to talk about lets ban goyf, i find that unproductive. the only way were gunna get rid of goyf is to out play him. maybe wizards will print a new super amazing creature some time in the future but until then.

the most common anti goyf artilery i have noticed employed is the following. my knowledge might be lacking a few things and thats why i have made this thread.

spells like- (but not limited to)

spellsnare- counter 2 converted mana cost spells
mind harnass- to steal green and red creatures for 1 
threads of disloyalty- strong kung fu card for turning 0-2 cost creatures against there masters.
veldaken shakels- not the most practical but does sometimes get the job done.
sower of temptation- cost heavy but i see it main bored a lot, i don't think its particularly part of anti goyf ism but it does work.

relic of progenatis- this one just had anti goyf written all over it at first glance.

this thread isn't just for listing side board cards to get rid of the pest, its also about out playing it. i can't help but think in most cases out playing it is going to result in just side board adjustments. the only other is to put anti creature directly into the board least those are the two that come to mind.

i make this thread so anyone else who wants to share anti goyf stradegy or over looked cards for the goyf metagame.
as stated before, i don't see any end to goyf in the future and i believe the only way to oust it is to out play it.

[Tha Gunslinga]

You sure you're not looking for mtgthesource.com?

[TopSecret]

I used to be on the non-Goyf side.

Then I started proxying them.

They are actually really good!

[LotusHead]

I recently put a Meloku, The Clouded Mirror in my Bomberman sideboard specifically for Goyf.dec.

[A_Outcast]

a very nice card to deal with goyf: Eradicate

granted costing 4 is meh, but it gives you a peek at their hand, and library which can be quite useful.

[TracerBullet]

a very nice card to deal with goyf: Eradicate

granted costing 4 is meh, but it gives you a peek at their hand, and library which can be quite useful.

Outcast, every time I see your avatar and I think you're Samite Healer.  Then I read your post and realize you're not.

[zeus-online]

I don't really see the problem with goyf in vintage? Honestly, Goyf is something i do consider with certain decks in T1 (Fish and drain decks mostly) but it's not more of a concern then switching a few old mans to threads or something.

Consider this:

If i'm playing rituals, i'll just race it and i'd probably be quite happy that he didn't play cannonist, mindcensor, or null rod.

If i'm playing Ichorid, he dosn't matter, mogg fanatic would be worse.

If i'm playing workshops he might be annoying, but he tends to be in decks with horrible mana bases, and thus i'm not that scared.

If i'm playing drains he might matter, depends on my hand, but he's not really that scary compared to my Tinker and time vault/key.
(might even SB goyf IN )

If i'm playing oath, he only matters if i'm not capable of finding my oath.

Then there's aggro/control, and he might be a problem there.

Now for legacy, he's quite good there In extended he's not that scary.

That said, when he just came out every deck was like "Green for goyf" which was quite ridiculos....But again this trend didn't continue in type1.
Atleast we had a lot of laughs at "Grimlong splashing Green for goyf!" and similar

[Grand Inquisitor]

Actually there are three camps:

1) Bad players who lose to goyf

2) Mediocre players who beat bad players with goyf

3) Good players who combo out the mediocre players at 4 life

[TheRogue]

You sure you're not looking for mtgthesource.com?

i do play legacy as well as vintage. mtgthesource.com scares me so i decided to join you guys.

occasionally i do post a thread that might be better suited for a legacy focused website.


none the less thought goyf is a nussiance to many. just because vintage packs a lot of decks that aren't threatened by goyf it really just comes down to your local meta game in my opinion.

[Implacable]

You sure you're not looking for mtgthesource.com?

i do play legacy as well as vintage. mtgthesource.com scares me so i decided to join you guys.

occasionally i do post a thread that might be better suited for a legacy focused website.


none the less thought goyf is a nussiance to many. just because vintage packs a lot of decks that aren't threatened by goyf it really just comes down to your local meta game in my opinion.

It's really hard not to flame this.  Rogue, in what metagame is 'Goyf more of a 'nuisance' than Remora, Confidant, FoW, Crucible, etc.?  I have no idea what you're saying.

[Matt]

It's really hard not to flame this.  Rogue, in what metagame is 'Goyf more of a 'nuisance' than Remora, Confidant, FoW, Crucible, etc.?  I have no idea what you're saying.

The legacy metagame, one assumes.

[Implacable]

The legacy metagame, one assumes.

"none the less thought goyf is a nussiance to many. just because vintage packs a lot of decks that aren't threatened by goyf it really just comes down to your local meta game in my opinion."

This is what I was pointing out. 

[Matt]

The legacy metagame, one assumes.

"none the less thought goyf is a nussiance to many. just because vintage packs a lot of decks that aren't threatened by goyf it really just comes down to your local meta game in my opinion."

This is what I was pointing out. 

Yes, exactly. Let me rephrase it how I read it: "tarmogoyf is annoyingly common in legacy. you might not realize this if all you play is vintage."

[Implacable]

The legacy metagame, one assumes.

"none the less thought goyf is a nussiance to many. just because vintage packs a lot of decks that aren't threatened by goyf it really just comes down to your local meta game in my opinion."

This is what I was pointing out. 

Yes, exactly. Let me rephrase it how I read it: "tarmogoyf is annoyingly common in legacy. you might not realize this if all you play is vintage."

Ah.  I read it as: "Tarmogoyf pisses me off.  Sure, lots of decks in Vintage aren't threatened by 'Goyf, but that's maybe not true depending on your meta."  Which doesn't really make sense as a consecutive string of thoughts, or as two statements: the meta where 'Goyf's more threatening than Brainstorm is a weird one indeed.

[Grand Inquisitor]

So do I still win?  

Also, TheRogue, don't take this snark as being targeted at you.  There are plenty of Legacy people here, but it's mostly T1 folks.  In T1, Tarmogoyf plays a useful, but minor role.  He certainly doesn't have the power in the Vintage format to rise to the level of community nuisance.

...that is reserved for Berserk Murlodont.

[Demonic Attorney]

Berserk Murlodont

Don't make me sideboard my 4x Noble Panthers again.

[Samite Healer]

You sure you're not looking for mtgthesource.com?

LOL

Outcast, every time I see your avatar and I think you're Samite Healer.  Then I read your post and realize you're not.

DOUBLE LOL

I believe that GI hit the nail on the head here.