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Author Topic: Vintage is Back in Virginia - 2nd at Richmond Comix with RUGBurn Belcher  (Read 7006 times)
GrandpaBelcher
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« on: August 30, 2009, 03:27:27 pm »

Vintage is back in Virginia!

A few weeks ago, Abe Corson alerted the few of us Vintage players in Northern Virginia to a tournament at Richmond Comix in Midlothian, VA.  As an attempt to revitalize the format, th e tournament was expected to be small, and even up to the day before the tournament nobody was sure what the prize support would be, but that didn’t matter.  It was a Vintage tournament two hours away.

So we made plans to head out and support a burgeoning local Vintage scene.  Abe, Ryan, and I would be playing, and Abe’s wife filled in the all-important fourth as chauffeur, runner, and cheerleader.  On the way, we learned from Abe the history of Magic in Virginia as the one-time hotbed of Vintage activity.  We also did the usual metagame discussion and our expectations for the success of the tournament.

Richmond Comix had a really good setup—clean, lots of light, plenty of space, good prize support, and a great group of local players.   At 12 players, turnout was a little low, but it was a lot of fun.  The store is planning on holding events at least quarterly in the future, and I expect with a little more notice and better defined prize support, they could easily draw more than 20 gamers from Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Virginia Beach.  As it was, they still gave out a box of M10 to first, an Unlimited Berserk to second, and some FNM Foils to third and fourth.

All in all, a great tournament, so I’m definitely looking forward to the next one.  If you have the opportunity, definitely try to make it out.

Richmond Comix
14249 Midlothian Turnpike
Midlothian, VA 23113
(804)594-2845
richmix@richmondcomix.com

Here’s what I packed:

RUGBurn 4-Color, 0-Land Belcher

4x Goblin Charbelcher
1x Timetwister
1x Windfall
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Memory Jar
1x Necropotence
1x Tinker
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Demonic Consultation

4x Street Wraith
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Tinder Wall
3x Goblin Welder
2x Wild Cantor

4x Manamorphose
4x Rite of Flame
4x Dark Ritual
4x Chrome Mox
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Lion’s Eye Diamond
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Channel

Sideboard
3x Empty the Warrens
3x Pyroblast
3x Tormod’s Crypt
2x Cabal Ritual
1x Goblin Welder
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Gaea’s Blessing
1x Vampiric Tutor

I had played a RUGBurn list at a previous tournament in Baltimore earlier this year.  That list was also explosively fast, but it lacked a certain amount of resiliency.  The card I wanted most and sided in for almost every round in Baltimore was Goblin Welder, so I wanted to run those maindeck.

I also ran Windfall maindeck.  It’s a good card in the opening hand and helps recover from mulligans.  Plus it gained modicum of respectability after having shown up in the Steel City Vault deck.  I boarded it out in every match against Force of Wills, but I also used it on the way to a first-turn win.

The list played well, had little trouble getting the right colors, and, except from some poor sideboarding decisions, I never felt like there were cards I wanted and didn’t have.  Having the extra mana-fixing capabilities of Wild Cantor was key.

Part of the color fixing included a last minute change of three Cabal Rituals for three Tinder Walls in the maindeck.  Cabal Ritual definitely wins games, especially after a draw-seven has filled my graveyard, but it’s much harder to cast.  Tinder Wall actually facilitates other colors, being castable off Elvish Spirit Guide and providing convenient Manamorphose mana.  Not to mention that Tinder Wall blocks and can be cast on one turn and used later.

The tournament was well run, including starting on time.

Round 1 – Abe Corson – Steel City Vault

So Abe and I drove two hours to play against each other in round one.  Abe would also play Ryan in round two—seems like a successful tournament for him!

I mulliganed to five in game one and had an understandably slow start, while Abe played a bunch of artifact mana, several draw spells, and Tolarian Academy.  Lucky for me that was the only land he had for a looong time.  So we played draw-go for several turns.  Finally I had mana make some plays, but he countered my initial Tinder Wall.  I passed and he tutored for Ancestral but also passed.  I topdecked Lotus and used that to play and activate Belcher.

I boarded out Welders for Pyroblasts, and learned something new: Don’t ever board out all your answers to Pithing Needle and Null Rod.  I don’t know what I was thinking.

Anyway, Abe played Pithing Needle on turn one, and my Demonic Tutor hand went from amazing to terrible.  I tried to figure out how to play a Street Wraith, but was one mana short and had to go with Wild Cantor instead.  Still the little druid that could got in for five damage.  Abe Fired us both (me and the Cantor), but I had Twister and Tinker for Jar on the next turn to get a Street Wraith and Simian Spirit Guide into play.  Unfortunately my draw sevens gave him the means to complete the Time Vault combo.

I boarded Welders back in.

Abe mulliganed to five but had a Force of Will for my turn-one Belcher and an Ancestral Recall to refill his hand.  “That was a good mulligan,” I said.  It was not enough, however, as my in-play mana was very stable and I topdecked and played another Belcher on turn two, activating for the win on turn three.

Match – 1-0; Games – 2-1

I was happy to start out with a match win and stay out of the losers’ bracket.  Abe successfully managed Operation Clean Sweep and ended up in the top four as well.

Round 2 – Nathan Groves – BG Aggro

This was a fun match.  Nathan was playing in his first Vintage tournament and was very friendly.  I hope he'll continue to be interested in the format.

I was on the play in game one, led with Necropotence, drew 10 cards and left myself a solid hand with a few redundancies.  Nathan Duressed me, taking a Charbelcher.  I played Welder on turn two and Welded for the win on turn three, after receiving a warning for looking at extra cards when I drew with Necropotence in play.

I boarded in Empty the Warrens for Windfall, Twister, and Necropotence.  The goblin tokens can be a quick path to victory, serve as blockers, and provide a win-condition that gets around Null Rod.

Nathan mulliganed to five for game two and made me mull to four by opening with Dark Ritual, Duress, and Hymn to Tourach.  We both played draw-go until he found a second land and played Tarmogoyf.  I took two attacks from a 5/6 Goofus until I played Empty the Warrens for eight tokens.  I think I could have won with just that, but I topdecked Belcher two turns after and cratered him instead to save time.

Match – 2-0; Games – 4-1

Nathan must have had an okay time at the tournament, because I know he was still in the store watching the finals.

Round 3 – Chris Adcock – Manaless Ichorid

This match finished up awkwardly, but was actually a pretty good back and forth competition.  Chris was a good sport and a nice guy.

We both shuffled up, and started mulliganing for game one.  I was happy to keep on seven with a turn one Belcher with activation in play.  Chris mulliganed to oblivion.  It wasn’t much of a game.  He did draw Bazaar on his first and only turn, though.

I boarded in Tormod’s Crypts and two Empty the Warrens for Windfall, Wheel of Fortune, Memory Jar, a Goblin Welder, and a Manamorphose, I think.  The idea is to stay fast, not let him use my draw-7s to his advantage, and to have Welder in case of early Chalice of the Void.  Ichorid is a surprisingly difficult matchup, especially against a good player.

My game-two opening hand would have been a turn-one goldfish, but Chris was no goldfish, opening with Chalice of the Void at zero, which shut off a Mox Jet and a pair of Dark Rituals in my hand.  Fortunately he didn’t have a Bazaar, so I had some time to draw out of it.  Unfortunately, Chris discarded dredgers and started doing stuff.  Like Winning.  I faced a couple of Cabal Therapies, and an Ichorid and a Zombie token took me down.

We both mulliganed to six for game three, and I opened with a Mox Ruby and Tormod’s Crypt and cycled Street Wraith, hoping to draw one more mana.  That plan didn’t work out, however, and I was forced to pass.  Chris played a Chalice and whiffed with a Therapy, but had no Bazaar.  I played Twister and drew awesome cards like Lotus, Lion’s Eye Diamond, and Mox Jet, which of course were useless with Chalice in play.  A few more turns and this happened:

Chris tapped City of Brass and said “Red.”  Then he tried to flashback Ancient Grudge.

“You just added red mana to your pool.”

“Oh, come on.  I obviously meant to cast Ancient Grudge.”

“I'm sorry, but you very clearly said red mana.”

I felt like an ass, especially because he admitted he hadn’t played with Ancient Grudge much before, but I held my ground.  If he had just tapped City of Brass and tried to flashback Ancient Grudge, no problem.  But he undeniably added red to his pool.

The next turn I topdecked a Spirit Guide and used that and my Mox Ruby to cast Manamorphose into Channel into Belcher for the win.

Match – 3-0; Games 6-2

Afterward, I apologized again, and Chris said he would have Grudged the Tormod’s Crypt anyway so I still would have won.  It wasn’t a fun way to win, and I usually think of Vintage as a fairly casual, friendly format.  Oh well.  He’ll never try to flashback Ancient Grudge with red again.

Round 4 – Eric Debrosky – Ad Nauseam

Eric and I have been in contact by email for a few months now about trying to get Vintage restarted in Virginia.  There are Magic communities in Richmond, Virginia Beach, and Northern Virginia that are clustered enough to organize some pretty large tournaments.  Hopefully we get that done.  Eric was definitely excited about getting to play Vintage and was a great unofficial for the tournament, even joining us for drinks afterward.

Plus, the Ad Nauseam versus Belcher matchup is one of the dumber and funner in Vintage.  Not quite a complete coin-flip, but it’s definitely a race.

We both kept seven in game one, and he Duressed me on the play taking Dark Ritual.  Next turn he Thoughtseized my Tinker.  Then he Duressed my Manamorphose.  I was crippled.  He played Demonic Consultation for a Dark Ritual and launched Ad Nauseam.  He drew, in order, Ad Nauseam, Cabal Ritual, Ad Nauseam, Mox Diamond, and Tendrils of Agony, sending himself to one life.  With no available mana, he passed the turn.  I attacked with Wild Cantor for the win.

He probably should have just kept drawing off Ad Nauseam.

On the play in game two, he mulliganed to six and won on turn one with Ad Nauseam.  Yay, Vintage!

Game three, Eric mulliganed to six, and I went to five on the play.  His action came first, though, as he played Necropotence and drew a bunch of cards.  I did not draw the win in the meantime.  Eric won by chaining Necropotence to his hand, playing Mystical Tutor for Ad Nauseam, and winning with  Yawgmoth’s Will.  That’s a lot of heat.

Match – 3-1; Games – 7-4

I vowed that someday I’d get my revenge.  That day ended up being in the top 4.

Top 4 – Eric Debrosky – Ad Nauseam

Okay, this time I was ready.  For real.

He mulliganed to five on the play and passed the turn.  I played Twister with three Moxes in play but couldn’t put anything together.  Instead, he got seven new cards that included an Ad Nauseam win.

Oops!  Okay, seriously now.

On the play in game two, I used Demonic Tutor to play Windfall with Black Lotus in play.  I found Belcher and had plenty of mana to play and activate without his doing anything about it.

We both kept seven for game three, and when he Duressed my Charbelcher instead of allowing me to play and win with it on turn one it seemed like it would be an actual game.  Instead after drawing my card for turn and cycling two Street Wraiths, I found another Charbelcher and won with that instead.

Zzzt!

It was real good.

Match – 4-1; Games – 9-5

Eric, of course, was a good sport about everything.  Playing Ad Nauseam means he’s well used to the sometimes turn-one nature of the format.  Plus he got some FNM foils for his top-four performance.

Finals – Daniel Sale – GW Aggro

Daniel was the last remaining of six or so GWx Beats, and clearly had what it took to make it to the finals.  I think he was surprised to be there, but I knew I couldn’t take him for granted.

I opened with a turn one Belcher on the play in game one, and the spectators figured that was the end of game one.  Unfortunately, I had removed six of eight Spirit Guides to Demonic Consultation to find Belcer.  I did not draw activation mana, and Daniel played Null Rod on turn three to shut me down.  Ethersworn Canonist, Kataki, and Qasali Pridemage teamed up to win the game.

For game two, I mulled to four and kept a hand of Elvish Spirit Guide, Tinder Wall, and two Street Wraiths.  I didn’t draw anything useful, and lost again to Null Rod and some 2/2 guys.

Match – 4-2; Games – 9-7

I guess the luck had to run out sooner or later.

I still got to take home an Unlimited Berserk for my troubles—pretty good second-place prize for a 12-man tournament.

Afterward we headed to a nearby Capital Ale House, for an excellent post-tournament meal.  Some initial slow service earned us a free appetizer, and the food (and beer selection) were excellent.  I had the bacon grilled-cheese burger on a dare.  It was essentially a burger built into a grilled-cheese sandwich, with bacon.  Niiiiice…  No Thurmanburger, of course, but still really good, and not nearly as heavy as I would have expected.

Next time, I’ll play even better, so I can enjoy my dinner even more.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 08:12:46 pm by Lochinvar81 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 05:17:36 pm »

Congrats Nat on another great Belcher performance Very Happy
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 07:53:24 pm »

Nat Moes is still my hero.
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 08:21:12 pm »

Nicely done Nat...ruined the format for 4 more people!   Wink
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 09:23:02 pm »

Chris tapped City of Brass and said “Red.”  Then he tried to flashback Ancient Grudge.

“You just added red mana to your pool.”

“Oh, come on.  I obviously meant to cast Ancient Grudge.”

“I'm sorry, but you very clearly said red mana.”

I felt like an ass, especially because he admitted he hadn’t played with Ancient Grudge much before, but I held my ground.  If he had just tapped City of Brass and tried to flashback Ancient Grudge, no problem.  But he undeniably added red to his pool.
Did neither of you think about calling a judge?  In this situation, that's undoubtably what you should have done.

And I wasn't there, but from the best of what I can determine based on the situation, I see no reason why the opponent shouldn't be allowed to reverse the mana ability, especially if he hadn't written the damage down.  You're allowed to tap your lands, say "Hrm, no" and untap them.  This is very much the similar thing.  And if he tries to play a spell that he legally can't, we reverse backwards until the announcement of the spell.

I understand you want to hold your opponents to a technically accurate level of play.  But I think you're in danger here of crossing the line to Unsporting Conduct.  We no longer force players to kill their own creature if they tried to Terror the monoblack opponent's creature.


Also, congratulations on getting Vintage back in Virginia.  I moved there for school and obviously it was the year or so after WoW stole up Team Shortbus.  And you got Abe playing Magic again, which is pretty freaking awesome.
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 10:48:03 pm »

Chris tapped City of Brass and said “Red.”  Then he tried to flashback Ancient Grudge.

“You just added red mana to your pool.”

“Oh, come on.  I obviously meant to cast Ancient Grudge.”

“I'm sorry, but you very clearly said red mana.”

I felt like an ass, especially because he admitted he hadn’t played with Ancient Grudge much before, but I held my ground.  If he had just tapped City of Brass and tried to flashback Ancient Grudge, no problem.  But he undeniably added red to his pool.
Did neither of you think about calling a judge?  In this situation, that's undoubtably what you should have done.

And I wasn't there, but from the best of what I can determine based on the situation, I see no reason why the opponent shouldn't be allowed to reverse the mana ability, especially if he hadn't written the damage down.  You're allowed to tap your lands, say "Hrm, no" and untap them.  This is very much the similar thing.  And if he tries to play a spell that he legally can't, we reverse backwards until the announcement of the spell.

I understand you want to hold your opponents to a technically accurate level of play.  But I think you're in danger here of crossing the line to Unsporting Conduct.  We no longer force players to kill their own creature if they tried to Terror the monoblack opponent's creature.

No, neither of us called a judge.  You're undoubtedly right, though, at least about getting answers from a higher authority.  I should have known when I felt so wrong doing it.

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Also, congratulations on getting Vintage back in Virginia.  I moved there for school and obviously it was the year or so after WoW stole up Team Shortbus.  And you got Abe playing Magic again, which is pretty freaking awesome.

I didn't really have anything to do with organizing the tournament, but it is nice to have tournaments relatively nearby again.  Hopefully Baltimore will start hosting tournaments again too!  And Abe has been all about Magic, recently.  There's a testing group for all formats on Wednesday and a Vintage-specific group on Thursdays in the DC suburbs if anyone's interested.
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 12:23:23 am »

Hey gang, new here to The Mana Drain, I am 'Ryan' as Nat fondly refered to me in his post.

This was my first vintage tournament and my first tournament all together in over 10 years. I think the last time I recall playing for some sort of prize was the Tempest prerelease.

I wish I had some great details to report about an awesome day rather im working with a 1-2-1 record for the day and some poorly taken notes.

I played a WGB deck similar to Menendian's meanbeat with a few modifications.

Match 1 Roger Clark

Roger surprised me right off the bat when I Duressed him and found he was playing a Merfolk deck. This is not good, WGB did well against Tezz and Staxx .. hordes of cheap powerful creatures? Not so much. Roger quickly gained a creature advantage over me with his Aethervial and played Standstill. Not having much choice as he easily built up a swarm, I had to play something, giving him 3 more cards. It was over shortly after that.

Round 2 went a bit better. A turn 1 Thoughtseize showed me he kept a hand of 3 Daze, 2 Standstill and 2 islands. I took a standstill and passed the turn. He played an island and an aethervial. I believe on the following turn with 2 land in play I put out a nullrod baiting a Daze. He took the land back and Dazed me, I responded with an Elivsh Spirit Guide. From there out I gained creature advantage and went on to win the game

Round 3 started with Roger playing a turn 1 black lotus, island and 2 merfolk Silvergill Adept revealing a lord of Atlantis. This is a fairly grim start I took care of a few creatures with blocking and diabolic edict. Eventually it boiled down to me with 1 life, no creatures and facing a Mutavault and a merfolk coming at my next round. I had a demonic tutor but couldnt find anything in my deck that would take care of 2 creatures to keep me alive. So I tell Roger that he won the matchup and GG. He asks me

Roger: "Didnt you have another edict?"
Me: "Yes but that wouldnt have saved me"
Roger: "You couldve Wasteland my Mutavault"
Me: "....."

This is where 10 years of being out of any real tournament play and missing years of blocks really begins to shows your unfamiliartiy of certain cards and just being oblivious to the obvious play right in front of you. It wouldnt be my last technical mistake of the day that would cost me a game.

Match: 0-1 Game: 1-2

Match 2 Andrew Geiss
I found some solidarity with Andrew in that this was his first Vintage tournament and he was still learning the ropes. He is playing TPS.

He wins the roll for game 1 and starts it off with an Imperial Seal. I respond with a Thoughtseize next turn, didnt write down what I took. His Seal gave him a Dark Confidant and he proceeded to gain a bit of a card advantage. We bounced creatures off each other, he attacked with DC I blocked with Gaddock Teeg, he replayed DC I replayed GT. Was at 9 life, he was at 5, he plays 2 chalice of the void at 0, plays Yawgmoth Will, gains enough to do a lethal Tendrils storm

Game 2 - I first turn Dark Confidant off a mox jet / land. He proceeds to Duress me, takes the demonic tutor. He plays a DarkC, I plow it. My DC and Elivsh Spirit Guide are beating him good when he plays Massacre. Shouldve taken better notes, dont recall exactly how but i won this match

Game 3 - Andrew plays a turn 1 Necropotence. We begin a Thoughtseize battle going back and forth draining each others hands and our life. I have a Tarmogoyf, he has 2 Dark Confidants out. He continues to come at me with the DC and im content to take a bit of damage because DC is finishing him off for me. Eventually he plays a Massacre and kills his DC, I think he smothered my Tarmo. I am at 5 life he is at 1, he plays Demonic Consultation for Yawgmoth's Will, first card he flips ... Yawgmoth's Will.

Match: 1-1 Game: 3-3

Match 3 Abe Corson
I come out of the restroom to find that I am playing one of my new Magic friends. Looking forward to this matchup as he is playing SCV and I feel my deck has a good matchup.

Lost the roll, Abe spent his first turn playing a flurry of mana generating artifacts and a Voltic Key going down to 2 cards in his hand, naturally I am concerned. But I have a solid hand and figure I can slow him down with my Thoughtseize, this was responded by Abe playing a Mystical Tutor and my heart sank as he revealed a Misdirection as the only card in his hand. Abe proceeds to draw his Demonic Tutor off the top of his deck and assemble the Key + Vault combo.

Game 2 - Playing first, I had a fairly aggressive first turn of a black lotus, broke for 3 green, played a white mana dual land to cast Gaddock and Tarmo first turn. It took awhile but I would eventually .. much to my surprise get another turn. Abe plays a few artifacts, Ponder not seeing anything he likes, Timewalks. Plays Yawgmoth, Ponders again, nothing he liked, shuffles and Timewalks again, nothing eventful happens, passed the turn to me. Tarmo and Teeg go to town.

Game 3 - As I mentioned earlier .. gameplay mistakes .. this one thankfully wasnt as noob as not realizing I should use Wasteland on a Mutavault. Abe plays first, nothing too eventful, goes to me, I play Thoughtseize and saw, Yawg, Timetwister, Force, AncGrudge, land and maybe something else. Took the Yawg. Next turn played Duress and this is where my lack of understanding SCV shows, I took the Force. Abe proceeds to Timetwister on his turn, assembles Key + Vault.
Thinking back on it I was pretty mad at myself because I had half thought through the ramifications of taking the twister over the force. My hand had nothing spectacular, 2 Pridemages and Teeg, what was he going to counter that I cared about? Yea .. I deserved that loss

Match: 1-2 Game: 4-6

At this point im out of top 4 contention, but I stayed in because .. well .. the 2 guys I rode down with did make it and I really needed more practice.

Match 4 Chris Hickman

He and I chatted up a bit and he commented that he was watching my 2nd match as it ran long but couldnt remember what I was playing. I didnt know what he was playing so I braced myself for a typical Vintage storm of artifacts.

I won the roll, played out my first turn with a lotus petal, broke for mana and played a turn 1 Null Rod, cant risk a belcher or TV victory. Chris seemed a little surprised by my play and took his turn. It became obvious to both of us that we were played pretty similar decks, except his was BG and mine had white. He played a Mishra's Factory, I pass my turn he attacks, I Edict. He plays Tamo, I play Tamo, he plays Tamo and I play Elvish Spirit Guide. We go back and forth eventually I knock him to 1 Tamo, Edict, and finish him off with my Tamo and Teeg.

Game 2 - I jokingly comment that this will be interesting to see where the game goes now that we are both going to be racing to sideboard our nullrods out the deck. Things didnt go well for me, his first turn produces a Blacklotus with Tamo and Dark Confidant. I had a chance however to stave off the beating as I Vampiric Tutor for a Tamo of my own to keep his guys at bay. This wouldve worked out well if his topdeck from Confidant didnt show an edict. I lost my guy, he beat me down. Thinking back on that match, I concluded that was the wrong choice of card, I shouldve taken the Plow. At least I couldve bought some time to come up with something with just his DC hitting me, couldnt have predicted he would pull an edict but I shouldve thought it through better.

Game 3 - This match ended up as a draw due to time but ultimately Chris won as we played it out after our slips were turned in. I Thoughtseize him and take a Tamo. He is holding a 2nd one in his hand that I Plow. The game goes back and forth a bit, he plays a Dark Confidant which helps him on the card advantage and nice flips taking minimal damage. Eventually the game boils down to his 2 Phyrexian Negator, Dark Confidant and 6 lands, he attacks with everything, I respond by stripping a land, blocking with Tamo and Teeg dealing 6 damage to his Negators. He sacks all his land and DC, I am at 6 life. I draw a Pridemage and end up losing to the trample damage.

My dismal 1-2-1 finish shows I have much to learn and I look forward to the next tournament, wont be too difficult to get me to come back for another fight afterall Capital Ale House was a mile down the road, that alone is worth a trip to Richmond!

 
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 11:14:09 am »

We both mulliganed to six for game three, and I opened with a Mox Ruby and Tormod’s Crypt and cycled Street Wraith, hoping to draw one more mana.  That plan didn’t work out, however, and I was forced to pass.  Chris played a Chalice and whiffed with a Therapy, but had no Bazaar.  I played Twister and drew awesome cards like Lotus, Lion’s Eye Diamond, and Mox Jet, which of course were useless with Chalice in play.  A few more turns and this happened:

Chris tapped City of Brass and said “Red.”  Then he tried to flashback Ancient Grudge.

“You just added red mana to your pool.”

“Oh, come on.  I obviously meant to cast Ancient Grudge.”

“I'm sorry, but you very clearly said red mana.”

I felt like an ass, especially because he admitted he hadn’t played with Ancient Grudge much before, but I held my ground.  If he had just tapped City of Brass and tried to flashback Ancient Grudge, no problem.  But he undeniably added red to his pool.

--------------------------------------------------


This exact situation happened to me at The Mana Clash. The level 2 judge told me, under every REL, taking back tapping a source for mana can be done. Whether it be land, creature, mox, or non-basic land. 
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 01:08:39 pm »

I was on the play in game one, led with Necropotence, drew 10 cards and left myself a solid hand with a few redundancies.  Nathan Duressed me, taking a Charbelcher.  I played Welder on turn two and Welded for the win on turn three, after receiving a warning for looking at extra cards when I drew with Necropotence in play.

Great report!  One other rules thing for the future... Necro has this often-overlooked line, "Whenever you discard a card, exile that card from your graveyard."  Hard to see how the Belcher could have been available for welding.
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 01:44:41 pm »

I was on the play in game one, led with Necropotence, drew 10 cards and left myself a solid hand with a few redundancies.  Nathan Duressed me, taking a Charbelcher.  I played Welder on turn two and Welded for the win on turn three, after receiving a warning for looking at extra cards when I drew with Necropotence in play.

Great report!  One other rules thing for the future... Necro has this often-overlooked line, "Whenever you discard a card, exile that card from your graveyard."  Hard to see how the Belcher could have been available for welding.

[shakes head] I am the most dishonest Magic player ever.
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2009, 02:03:16 pm »

[shakes head] I am the most dishonest Magic player ever.

It sure is shaping up to look that way. Lol. Just kidding, I'm sure someone with as much stature as you do, on the forums, wouldn't be doing this intentionally. You might really wanna freshen up on the rules a little bit though. Tighten up your play! Lol
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2009, 04:13:57 pm »

Chris tapped City of Brass and said “Red.”  Then he tried to flashback Ancient Grudge.

“You just added red mana to your pool.”

“Oh, come on.  I obviously meant to cast Ancient Grudge.”

“I'm sorry, but you very clearly said red mana.”

I felt like an ass, especially because he admitted he hadn’t played with Ancient Grudge much before, but I held my ground.  If he had just tapped City of Brass and tried to flashback Ancient Grudge, no problem.  But he undeniably added red to his pool.
Did neither of you think about calling a judge?  In this situation, that's undoubtably what you should have done.

And I wasn't there, but from the best of what I can determine based on the situation, I see no reason why the opponent shouldn't be allowed to reverse the mana ability, especially if he hadn't written the damage down.  You're allowed to tap your lands, say "Hrm, no" and untap them.  This is very much the similar thing.  And if he tries to play a spell that he legally can't, we reverse backwards until the announcement of the spell.

I understand you want to hold your opponents to a technically accurate level of play.  But I think you're in danger here of crossing the line to Unsporting Conduct.  We no longer force players to kill their own creature if they tried to Terror the monoblack opponent's creature.


Also, congratulations on getting Vintage back in Virginia.  I moved there for school and obviously it was the year or so after WoW stole up Team Shortbus.  And you got Abe playing Magic again, which is pretty freaking awesome.

Wow, no wonder my ears were burning.  To clarify, I do still play Vintage if and when I'm free and there's an actual event to go to.  And, you know, when said wife actually allows me to go.

In defense of Nat and his opponent, the judging staff capabilities for this event fell somewhere between the cardinal points of "underexperienced" and "nonexistant."  This is not to say that Tommy and Frank don't do a good job running events, but it is to say that when actual judge calls come up, despite the store's employees giving their best effort, they are not judges and generally only have a basic level of understanding of the IPG.  As such, calling a judge here likely would not have resulted in any better of a ruling than the one mutually agreed upon by both players.  So, let's not be too critical, here.  I would have been happy to weigh in with my opinion if asked, but I was not going to offer it up given the fact that I am clearly a friend of one of the players involved and was also currently playing in the tournament.

As an aside, with several local Richmond players interested in possibly pursuing judging, this is a situation that will hopefully change.  Speaking of, I gave out my email address to a few bright-eyed and bushy-tailed judge-to-bes with explicit instructions of "if you are serious about this, contact me and I will get you started."  That being said, I'm still waiting for those emails (hint, hint).

All of this being said, Saturday was a blast and I can't wait for the next one.  If any other VA folks are interested in a rotation of vintage tournaments among the locations that Nat mentioned (northern VA, Richmond, VA beach), please chime in.  We are serious about making this happen, but just need to guage the level of interest first.


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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2009, 06:48:41 pm »

With any luck Saturday will be the 'rebirth' of the Richmond vintage scene.  Allowing 15 proxies definitely helps out those of us who unloaded their power several years ago.
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2009, 09:08:05 pm »

Oh well.  He’ll never try to flashback Ancient Grudge with red again.

That had me laughing for a minute..   Great report.  That sounds like a type of tournament that would be amazing with the proper advertising.  I love vintage and legacy..  of course I am missing the power.... but have all the other pieces for most decks.  are proxy events ran very often?  Might be my only way to get power..  Probably why I play Ichorid so much.  The most hated deck ever.
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 02:51:00 pm »

Thanks for the report, Nat. It's good to see Vintage communities getting built up through successful grassroots efforts. Hopefully you didn't dreamcrush anyone enough to drive them away from the gentlemen's format.
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« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2009, 10:37:03 pm »

I was on the play in game one, led with Necropotence, drew 10 cards and left myself a solid hand with a few redundancies.  Nathan Duressed me, taking a Charbelcher.  I played Welder on turn two and Welded for the win on turn three, after receiving a warning for looking at extra cards when I drew with Necropotence in play.
Great report!  One other rules thing for the future... Necro has this often-overlooked line, "Whenever you discard a card, exile that card from your graveyard."  Hard to see how the Belcher could have been available for welding.
[shakes head] I am the most dishonest Magic player ever.
It sounds like you should have just had the judge standing over you watching your all of your games for the tournament.

Nice deck. ZZZZZZZZT!!1!
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« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2009, 02:10:06 pm »

Greetings!

My name is Daniel Sale and I just took down the Vintage event at Richmond Comix last week.  The only experience I've had with the format thus far is from articles I've read online.  After doing my research, I found the meta game to break down into Time Vault decks vs. Null Rod decks.  Armed with that knowledge, I set about looking for lists that I could realistically build and test enough so that I wouldn't embarrass myself.  This proved to be much harder than I had originally anticipated! 
Da Bears G/W

4 Gaddock Teeg
4 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

2 Seal of Primordium
2 Choke
4 Null Rod

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
4 Savannah
2 Plains
3 Forest

Sideboard
3 Warmth
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Tormod's Crypt
2 Whirling Dervish
2 Thornweald Archer

Let me take a sec to talk about some of the card choices here.  I chose not to run Mox Pearl or Mox Emerald in my deck.  This wasn't because I didn't have space from proxies (I only ran 13), but because I felt like because I wanted to run 4x Kataki, they were just going to become more of a liability than they were worth.  I understand now that this kind of thinking is waayy off, and that the Mox truly are insane acceleration.  I will definitely have some Moxen for my next tournament! 
I wasn't very impressed with the Choke maindeck, and feel like there must be something better out there.  This may be because I only ran 2, and they weren't relevant in many of the matchups I played during the day.
Also, my all-stars on the day were definitely Whirling Dervish.  I played him in the board on theory, and it payed off.  As Vault/Key decks continue to find ways to fight Null Rod decks, one card I've seen coming up more and more is Darkblast.  Dervish is actually better than Kataki/Shusher/Canonist in many different matchups.  He sucessfully dodged Smother and Darkblast, and also swung past some Zombie tokens and a Tombstalker to win me 2 rounds.  Your mileage may vary, but he was great for me, and I am considering playing the full 4 in the future.

As for the tournament... well, I don't know what to say.  I had incredibly consistent draws that features disruption and aggressive bears.  There were a few embarrassing moments on the day, including:

5) Picking up Abe's Brainstorm to make sure I knew what it did.
4) Playing Warmth in my sideboard, which was complete garbage.
3) Letting Abe search with a Polluted Delta while I had Mindcensor in hand. (Timing is everything!)
2) Playing an Ethersworn Canonist on Turn 3 in game 1 of the finals instead of the Kataki or Seal of Primordium.
1) Going to the crappy bar next door instead of Capital Ale House with people much smarter than I am.

Great tournament, nice to see some real decks show up.  I'm looking forward to getting some more players interested and regular events in the VA area.
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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2009, 04:30:41 pm »

belcher and anyone who thinks its anything but a heap of shit makes me want to felch rodents in protest

Stating your opinion that Belcher is poor is one thing, but attacking all the people who play it as well is inflammatory at the best of times. In view of other transgressions, this merits a Full Warning.
-Godder
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« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2009, 04:47:52 pm »

belcher and anyone who thinks its anything but a heap of shit makes me want to felch rodents in protest

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« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2009, 01:23:33 pm »

Hi, eric debrosky here, and enjoyed meeting Nat, abe and the gang for some good ol' fashioned vintage! had a lot of fun! it'd be great to put the tri-umverate together, of DC, VA beach, and richmond. (maybe even Balt.) and put together a group, that does this perhaps once a month or so. Richmond Comix did a great job! and I know some stores in  VA beach and DC that would be ok with stepping up and providing a  home base. - Nat- what do ya think about getting a list together, of all the potential folks, and start wargaming to make this a more regular thing? Hopefully some folks will read these posts and reveal themselves as well.
Look forward to the next adventure!
Cheers!
Eric D  aka   sirmoxalot
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« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2009, 05:49:31 am »

Good choice on Capital Ale House. You really aren't going to find a better beer selection on the east coast.

Also with me moving to Richmond in the near future, I'd take a stab at getting something going. Perhaps some small scale weekday events?
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