Conflux/Dream Halls combo deck?

[BruiZar]

An interesting perculiarity of this list is that it is a y will deck that is immune to leyline of the void.

-bruiz

[Purple Hat]

maybe I just don't see it but doesn't this concept fail to address the primary problem with dreamhalls decks in the first place?  The main problem with dream halls isn't a lack of powerful expensive effects that win the game on the spot when dream halls resolves.  The problem is that if dream halls doesn't resolve/stick around you're running a deck that plays a bunch of very expensive spells that clog up your hand and prevent you from really doing anything.  When you start playing a 5 color manabase and all these crazy multi color cards you make the post dream halls environment slightly better, but you make the predream halls deck SIGNIFICANTLY worse.  How does this deck function at all without dream halls in play?

[the boogie man]

 Would it be possible to keep the deck as close to mono u as possible? If it gets close enough, back to basics could easily be played. besides will and demonic, not many things need many other colors. with 2 conflux, 1 r/d, 1 stand/deliver-cruel ultimatum as the combo pieces, and maybe 1-2 tidespout tyrant (which is castable w/o dream halls too). Trinket mage seems to be an awesome fit, finding lotus consistently seems to be a huge plus. Also, I usually wouldn't play mana drain and pact of negation in the the same deck, how have these been in testing? I'd push for more misdirection.

 If you wanted to run more conflux or large cc effects, chrome mox could serve as really good accelleration. conflux creates all colors, and there are multiple cards maindeck that would produce multiple colors, most of which are blue. chrome mox also opens up turn 1 drain, which is nothing to scoff at. then you could run thirst for knowledge instead of the minimal amount of draw you run now.

 I agree with purple hat concerning the pre-halls phase of the deck. I think that you need more draw. and less pact of negation. thirst for knowledge, trinket mage, intuition-ak, or even mystic remora could do. I bet merchant scroll would fit pretty nicely too.

[BruiZar]

maybe I just don't see it but doesn't this concept fail to address the primary problem with dreamhalls decks in the first place?  The main problem with dream halls isn't a lack of powerful expensive effects that win the game on the spot when dream halls resolves.  The problem is that if dream halls doesn't resolve/stick around you're running a deck that plays a bunch of very expensive spells that clog up your hand and prevent you from really doing anything.  When you start playing a 5 color manabase and all these crazy multi color cards you make the post dream halls environment slightly better, but you make the predream halls deck SIGNIFICANTLY worse.  How does this deck function at all without dream halls in play?

If you look at my list, there's not many cards that are dead in your deck. There's a single conflux and an R&D. Dream Halls is never dead because you either resolve it or pitch it to any blue card after dream halls hits the table. So if Dream Halls doesn't hit the table there's only 2 cards that are useless.

[Purple Hat]

maybe I just don't see it but doesn't this concept fail to address the primary problem with dreamhalls decks in the first place?  The main problem with dream halls isn't a lack of powerful expensive effects that win the game on the spot when dream halls resolves.  The problem is that if dream halls doesn't resolve/stick around you're running a deck that plays a bunch of very expensive spells that clog up your hand and prevent you from really doing anything.  When you start playing a 5 color manabase and all these crazy multi color cards you make the post dream halls environment slightly better, but you make the predream halls deck SIGNIFICANTLY worse.  How does this deck function at all without dream halls in play?

If you look at my list, there's not many cards that are dead in your deck. There's a single conflux and an R&D. Dream Halls is never dead because you either resolve it or pitch it to any blue card after dream halls hits the table. So if Dream Halls doesn't hit the table there's only 2 cards that are useless.

There's conflux x2, cruel ultimatum(also why isn't this fire/ice?), R+D...which is 4, in addition to the extra dream halls.  you don't intend to ever cast any of these cards...but you have to play them.  You're going to spend a long time building up to your big play...then discover that you've played a symetrical effect and your opponent isn't playing a bunch of terrible cards.  My point was that this is only a slight upgrade on the post dream halls situation.  and honestly if you can't find a way to goldfish a win once you slap down a dream halls.....give up, go home.  That has NEVER been the problem with dream halls combo. 

The problem with dream halls combo is that until you resolve dream halls you're playing a deck that doesn't do anything.  Your list, for example, is a control deck with no draw engine.  Where most control decks, like Tezz control, or Rich's new Meditate/mystic remora deck, are dedicating 6+ slots to unrestricted draw of some sort (tfk, Intution/AK, meditate/Mystic remora, etc.) your list uses those slots to add uncastable cards that you plan to use post dream halls.  Tezz control plays a win package of: 2-3 tezz, vault, Key, Tinker, Colossus.  so 5-6 cards.  The thing is that of those cards, only 1 is uncastable and only 2 of them don't do something before you go off.  Your list plays the following cards that are no good until the turn you go off: 2 conflux, R+D, 3 Pact of negation, 1 Cruel Ultimatum, 4 dream halls.  That's 11 cards.  You're playing double the size package of useless cards, no filter and no draw engine.  The only deck that plays this size package and is planning to win after turn 1 is Dragon.  But Dragon plays one of the strongest draw engines available and has an inheirent filtering mechanism in Bazaar.

so in summary: you've solved the easy problem "how do I win once I resolve dream halls" you've failed to solve the hard problem holding back this deck "how do I make a deck that wins with dream halls AND does something the rest of the time?"

[BruiZar]

The list needs an update, that's for sure. The second conflux isn't needed, you can go off on a single conflux. Cruel Ultimatum doesn't belong in the deck, in my original post I had already replaced it with Stand Deliver, but Fire Ice works as well. I'll address the engine problems or lack there of,  in my next revision of the deck, and post it here for you to review / comment on it.

[Hamishfox]

Damn it, It's so annoying to find other people have had similar ideas to mine.

Here's what I've been testing out lately.

4 Daze
1 Imperial Seal
4 Underground Sea
4 Progenitus
4 Force of will
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Undermine
1 Mana Crypt
4 Dream Halls
1 Vampiric Tutor
5 Island
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Dark Ritual
4 Polluted Delta
4 Reliquary Tower
4 Swerve
4 Conflux

Dream halls on turn 3 with a daze or a fow for protection, conflux searching for progenitus, fow, undermine, swerve, and conflux.

You get the idea.

[the boogie man]

Doesn't progenitus take 3 turns to win? Do you just plan on sitting and waiting with swerves and undermine? Not only does this seem slow, but the engine seems to take up a ton of space. kind of a cool strategy, though. Why do you need so many progenitus? wouldn't 1 you could conflux for do the job? And undermine and swerve seem inneficient at best outside of the combo. I'd at least run countersquall. Why not fill these slots with drains or duress/thoughtsieze or something? extras make good pitch cards, especially to each other. I think that tyrant should be the win condition of choice.

I mostly don't like dark rituall. With uu necessary for the casting cost, dark rit doesn't seem to do it, especially in a deck with reliquary towers and ancient tomb. Both of these are also terrible with daze.

If I was going to run dream halls tomorrow, My list would look similar to bruizar's, without pact of negation and 1 conflux and ultimatum. I'd replace these with stand/deliver, fire/ice, and 3 draw spells of some sort. Sugestion?

If you don't like winning with research/development, perhaps tyrant is an option. Comboing with conflux would be the same, and you could run show/tell. this would be decent before the combo (getting dream halls or tyrant out) and still pitch to other cards after. You could also potentially hardcast the tyrant in a drawn out game, too. If I went this route, I might run more conflux and chrome mox, which go awesome together. chrome mox is also good with drain, getting very early drain mana.

[Magic_man]

I have a killer dream halls turn 2 win.   Usual 3rd turn kill (no power needed) .   run 4 Cruel Ultimatums, 4 Conflux, 4 Dream Halls, 2 painter's servants, 4 reminisces, 4 dark rituals, mana excel (Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Etc.).   That sould do the trick. Play a Brain storm, Ponder, Etc.  Make it B/U.

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-Godder