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serracollector
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« on: February 07, 2010, 06:53:37 am » |
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Does abyss target a creature or does the player target the creature? In other words does a pro black creature live through the abyss, since abyss can't target it, or does the player target it, and it get sacced?
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B/R discussions are not allowed outside of Vintage Issues, and that includes signatures.
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Anusien
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« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2010, 11:00:48 am » |
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Players choose targets, but the object targets. There's never a case where the player targets and therefore protection is avoided.
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Magic Level 3 Judge Southern USA Regional Coordinator The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule. |
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zeus-online
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« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2010, 04:08:55 pm » |
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So just to clear it up: The abyss targets, so pro: black indeed does work against it...As does shroud.
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The truth is an elephant described by three blind men.
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jtwilkins
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 09:05:22 pm » |
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But the player can't target a protection from black or shrouded creature so the protection only works if all creatures have pro black or shroud. Otherwise the player would be forced to target a legal target.
Correct?
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Delha
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2010, 02:29:24 pm » |
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If I'm understanding you correctly, then yes.
Treat creatures with w/ Problack or shroud as if they simply aren't there when handling the trigger.
--If you have only one creature and it has one of the above abilities, then nothing happens.
--If you have two creatures, and only one of them has Problack/shroud, then you must choose to target the other.
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I suppose it's mostly the thought that this format is just one big Mistake; and not even a very sophisticated one at that.
Much like humanity itself. |
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LotusHead
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Team Vacaville
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2010, 04:56:56 pm » |
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The Abyss 3B
World Enchantment
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, destroy target nonartifact creature that player controls of his or her choice. It can't be regenerated. The Abyss can only target things it can target. Ie: Not artifact creatures, not Pro- black creatures (or pro-enchantment or pro-anything, etc), and not shroud creatures. |
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Godder
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2010, 08:11:17 pm » |
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Is it not the case that because it's the player's choice, they could choose a creature that the Abyss can't target, causing the ability to be countered on resolution? To me, it looks like the Abyss targets the creature, but the player's choice doesn't target, and therefore can be anything they control, and doesn't have to be a legal target for the ability.
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That's what I like about you, Laura - you're always willing to put my neck on the line. |
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jtwilkins
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2010, 08:42:15 pm » |
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Is it not the case that because it's the player's choice, they could choose a creature that the Abyss can't target, causing the ability to be countered on resolution? To me, it looks like the Abyss targets the creature, but the player's choice doesn't target, and therefore can be anything they control, and doesn't have to be a legal target for the ability.
OK looked it up on: Crystal Keep Rulings# This is a targeted ability. The Abyss targets one creature each upkeep. It cannot target creatures which are untargetable, such as those with Protection from Black. [Aahz 1994/07/13] # If the target becomes invalid after being chosen but before resolution, you do not have to choose another target. [Duelist Magazine #16, Page 25] I don't know who Aahz is though... |
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Clariax
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2010, 09:49:20 pm » |
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Any time you choose a target, you must choose a legal target. In this case it just happens to (sometimes) be a different player choosing the target than the one who controls the trigger. Is it not the case that because it's the player's choice, they could choose a creature that the Abyss can't target, causing the ability to be countered on resolution? To me, it looks like the Abyss targets the creature, but the player's choice doesn't target, and therefore can be anything they control, and doesn't have to be a legal target for the ability.
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Aaron Cutler
DCI L2
Cleveland, Ohio
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coldcrow
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« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 06:15:38 am » |
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A related situation:
I have Baneslayer Angel, the opponent Keiga, Tide Star in play. When Keiga is put into the graveyard somehow, can the players use its ability to gain control of the Angel?
As far as I understand, not.
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zeus-online
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« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 08:04:28 am » |
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No, you can't...Keiga is a dragon.
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The truth is an elephant described by three blind men.
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AmbivalentDuck
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Exile Ancestral and turn Tiago sideways.
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« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2010, 04:55:56 pm » |
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You could choose the target, let it stack, then respond by giving the creature pro-black or shroud to "counter" the Abyss? Ie. Save your Gorilla Shaman with your Morphling?
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Yare
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Playing to win
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« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2010, 04:57:18 pm » |
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You could choose the target, let it stack, then respond by giving the creature pro-black or shroud to "counter" the Abyss? Ie. Save your Gorilla Shaman with your Morphling?
This trick works. The Abyss will see that its target is illegal upon resolution and its triggered ability will be countered. |
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