A surprisingly effective Burn deck (high jank factor) !

[L_O_L]

Hello TMD community.

Since the printing of Kiln Fiend, I've been toying around with ideas trying to make the most out of the creature. It seems really powerful in combination with loads of free spells that do something to advance the goal of your deck, right ? So, after playtesting a rough draft and finetuning it some more, I present to you a novel take on Vintage Burn (as if that ever really existed). The goal of this deck is to toast your opponent by turn three, and it does that rather convincingly.

Mana : 16
6 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
Creatures : 10
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Warren Instigator
2 Viashino Slaughtermaster
Burn : 14
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Dart
2 Fireblast
Cheating combat : 12
4 Invigorate
4 Reckless Charge
4 Fury of the Horde
Support : 8
4 Manamorphose
4 Rite of Flame
Sideboard : 15
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Pyroblast
4 Mindbreak Trap
3 Nature's Claim

This deck is tons of fun to play and can be very quick. It is capable of turn 1 kills and usually kills on turn 3/4. The creature base seems odd, but it includes 6 double strikers that are very dangerous with Invigorate and Reckless Charge. I include 4 Warren Instigator and 2 Viashino Slaughtermaster because the Instigator can put other copies of itself into play in case you hold more. Viashino's ability is rarely used (it's possible with Manamorphose though). A first turn creature (with Rites, Mox or Lotus) guarantees that some nutty stuff will ensue. If all else fails, there is a viable aggro strategy available to you.

Notable inclusions :

Invigorate is amazing in this deck and is definitely worth playing green for. No matter which creature you pump, it's gonna get at least 4 extra damage in (for free !). If you pump a double striker, it deals at least 5 for free. This is assuming your creatures are unblocked, but there's enough creature removal here to ensure just that.

Fury of the Horde is downright broken in this pile. You should always keep in mind to hold on to redundant cards if you're holding this, because pitching them to FotH will win you the game. Pump a creature once or twice with Invigorate, Reckless Assault or just lots of spells in the case of Kiln Fiend and a single FotH seals the deal more often than not.

Manamorphose has great synergy with Kiln Fiend. You lose no resources and you add to the Fiend's power.

By now you will probably be thinking "Turn 1 kills, really ?" but just consider this opening draw : Land, Lotus, Kiln Fiend, 2x Reckless Charge, 2x Invigorate. Swing with a 27/10 hasted creature to hit an opponent with 26 life. I concede that this is a little farfetched but it is just an illustration of some of the mechanics of the deck. Or, if you’re on the draw : Lotus, Rite of Flame, 2x Reckless Abandon, Warren Instigator, Fury of the Horde and two random red cards. That’s 28 damage on the first turn. Scenarios without Black Lotus are also genuinely possible, but you will require some luck with Manamorphose. I’ve done it before, amusing both myself and my opponent. Turn two kills are far more likely, turn three kills are rather common.

So, any thoughts ? Questions ? Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it ! If anything, this deck is a lot of fun to pilot.

[hyst]

Hello,

Based on your list - no testing - I feel Fury of the Horde and Warren Instigators are pretty bad on their own, and without draw cards in your deck, why not using better critters and pump spells ?

I playtested a similar deck weeks ago - casual purposes - I was using Berserk along with Reckless charge and some other burn/pump spells.

Since you need green to cast Invigorate, why not playing Beserk ? It's pretty awesome on a Kiln Fiend !

If you really want your Double Strikers, I guess Double Cleave is better than Viashino/Warren, especially with Berserk and Kiln Fiend.

As I already said, I feel Warren Instigator is bad. Yes it has double strike but if you don't have 1 of your 8 pump spells it's just a dumb 1/1. Not to mention him being blocked.

Try Goblin Guide. A lot better here.


I guess it's not 'the spirit' of your deck anymore with double strike - double attack phase, but I'd start with something like this:

Mana:
5 Mountain
3 Forest
4 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby

Critters:
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Goblin Guide

Burn:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Dart

Pump:
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
4 Reckless Charge

There are 9 slots remaining for metagame concerns / or whatever you feel right in here.
I playtested with 4 Kavu Predator, 3 Nature's Claim and 2 cards I can't remember right now - Maybe Grim Lavamancers.

I like these kind of decks, and be sure I'll test yours as soon as I come home.

What do you think ?

[L_O_L]

Thanks for your input ! I really like Berserk in this deck, I can't believe I hadn't thought of that. It's amazing with Kiln Fiend and actually makes Double Striking creatures all the more dangerous. The thing about a regular attacker, such as Goblin Guide, is that they make Invigorate far less threatening. The card is so good that I believe it warrants running seemingly inferior creatures with Double Strike. I don't believe giving creatures Double Strike through cards like Double Cleave is the way to go because they are bad cards on their own that increase interdependency and use up deck space and mana that can be put to better use. Indeed, the same can be said for Fury of the Horde, but that card's effect is so powerful that it makes up for the card disadvantage and hand clutter. There's just something to be said about using it to untap your 15 power attacker for free and flat out win the game from there. In any case, Scars of Mirrodin introduces Assault Strobe as a cheaper alternative to Double Cleave at sorcery speed, just something to consider if you're going down that road.

I think when you playtest this deck, you'll find the current creatures worthy of inclusion. I'm not saying there aren't any better alternatives out there, because there probably are and I'm still looking around for them, but they definitely do a good job of quickly killing the opponent. Let me know how your playtesting works out !

[xouman]

Since I don't own berserk, I was thinking adding black instead green. Duress and thoughtseize in turn 1 cut opponent threats or take counters to assure that kiln is plaed. Black also adds confidants in order to have good draw, tutors, unearth (for countered kilns, and may be cycled). Also there is a black alternative to Invigorate: Rouse, which gives +2/0 a creature at the pay of 2 life (5 more damage with kiln instead of 4). I'm even thinking to add Tainted Strike, which gives a creature +1/0 and infect until end of turn for B. Playing reckless abandon plus tainted strike transforms kiln fiend into a 11/2 poisonous killer ftw.

[L_O_L]

So after some more playtesting, here is my new and improved decklist (mind you, the budget required to build this deck has gone through the roof):

Mana : 17
6 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
Creatures : 10
4 Kiln Fiend
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Varchild's War-Riders
Burn : 10
2 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Dart
Cheating combat : 15
3 Invigorate
4 Reckless Charge
4 Berserk
4 Assault Strobe
Support : 8
4 Manamorphose
4 Rite of Flame

As it turns out, some of hyst's suggestions were on the spot. Increasingly, I was finding Fury of the Horde difficult to wield. I cut it altogether and went for a different creature base. Tarmogoyf is amazing and can really shine with an Assault Strobe or Berserk behind it (or both). The Varchild's War-Riders, which may at first sight come off as incredibly bad, are actually a pretty powerful finisher that easily go all the way with all this pump. Their built-in Trample and Rampage are very helpful and negate the disadvantage of providing your opponent with ample blockers. Aside from being awesome anti-Oath tech (I concede that against Stax, it's a different story) they are a pretty solid beatstick by themselves. With the double strikers gone, Invigorate lost some of its prowess and is now primarily killer in combination with Berserk and/or Assault Strobe, hence the 3-off. It seems like this deck is turning into R/G Beats but the clock is a lot faster so the strategy behind it is entirely different. What do you think ?

[hyst]

In my opinion, Tarmogoyf is not good enough in here. You'll find that it's often a simple 3/4 beater (sorcery, instant, land), maybe 4/5 sometimes.

I'd suggest you to try Kavu Predator, built-in trample and obvious synergy with Invigorate, SB Nature's Claim, ... and some anecdotical situations.
With Invigorate it's just that dumb (and it's awesome even without Berserk).
Always bigger than a goyf, and sometimes it will win you the game where goyf won't (Sphynx of the Steel Wind to point out a real problem to RG beats).

Assault Strobe seems nice on the paper, I need to test that card.

For the Varchild's War-Riders, to be honest I never heard of this before I saw them in here.
Seems ok but I can't really give some input on that. Need to test too. Maybe there's a better beater. Scab-Clan Mauler or the like.

[xouman]

Varchild Riders are not good enough (I played them 14-15 years ago and then they were crap :p), and tarmo, while being awesome, does not fit really well. What about Spark elemental or hellspark elemental? Decent amount of damage, trample, and haste.


Cheating combat : 15 seems too much. I would play some overmaster, you are not losing CA and forces opponent to counter it or would not be able to counter berserk/other win condition.

I know you are creating a RG powered version, but what about that?

Mana : 18 - light manabase, nothing costs more than 2
3 Mountain
4 bloodstained mire
4 more red/black fetchlands
4 badlands
3 swamp

Creatures : 8
4 Kiln Fiend - main threat
4 Dark confidant - it would get countered, should be played before kiln

Burn : 8
4 Lightning Bolt - takes golems and blockers
3 Lava Dart - pumps kiln, takes blockers
1 fireblast - should be tutored as final kill

Cheating combat : 9
2 Rouse - cheap trick
4 Reckless Charge - reusable trick
3 Assault Strobe - not good in multiples

Support : 10
4 Manamorphose - raises spell count for free
3 unearth - cheap spell, recovers countered creatures, can be cycled...
1 demonic tutor - searches anything
1 vampiric tutor - searches anything, great with manamorphose, overmaster
1 demonic consultation - searches kiln

defense 7
4 thoughtseize - takes counters, win conditions
3 Overmaster - raises spell count, acts as preventive counter

[TopSecret]

I think there are a lot of interesting ideas being brought up here.

I've tried a number of things along these lines. I posted about some of them a bit ago here (hopefully the difference in color and build doesn't make this too off topic): http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=39631.0

I am wondering if the number of creatures being played in these lists is somewhat low, opening up the deck to being vulnerable to counterspells and removal.

Also, and this might be a different deck depending on the direction L O L wants this discussion to go, but exploring the new poison creatures might be promising since some are more decent than the double strikers (having flying, costing one mana up front...etc.) and there are more of them to choose from.

[xouman]

I like adding black because you get kiln more consistently. Kiln >>> any other creature in this deck, so why not search for it via tutors, and defend it with overmaster/thoughtseize/duress? Surely you can win faster with green, and may be better if the metagame is filled with mud and ichorid, but in a drain environment i think black gets the deal.

Nevertheless, I agree 8-10 creatures may be too low. if we add blue we have access to wee dragonauts (the first approach I did to this archetype), brainstorm/ponder/preordain, shadow rift (awesome with kiln), but making the deck more expensive because of duals:

Mana : 18 - light manabase, nothing costs more than 2 but dragonauts
2 Mountain
4 bloodstained mire
4 scalding tarn
3 badlands
3 volcanic island
1 swamp
1 island

Creatures : 10
4 Kiln Fiend - main threat
3 Dark confidant - it would get countered, should be played before kiln
3 wee dragonauts

Burn : 8
2 fire/ice
3 lighting bolt - takes golems and blockers
3 Lava Dart - pumps kiln, takes blockers

Cheating combat : 8
2 Rouse - cheap trick
3 Reckless Charge - reusable trick
3 Assault Strobe - not good in multiples

Support : 10
4 Manamorphose - raises spell count for free
1 demonic tutor - searches anything
1 vampiric tutor - searches anything, great with manamorphose, overmaster
1 demonic consultation - searches kiln
1 quiet speculation
1 brainstorm
1 ponder
1 shadow rift

defense 6
4 thoughtseize - takes counters, win conditions
2 Overmaster - raises spell count, acts as preventive counter


but I'm afraid that deck does not overperform RG or RB

[TopSecret]

If you want to maintain the suicidal pump theme, I'm pretty sure that adding stuff like Wee Dragonauts and similar cards is the wrong way to go,
specifically because Wee Dragonauts costs 3 and is therefore too slow.
Being a burn/pump deck, you're automatically the beatdown (unless the opponent is relying on burnable/blockable creatures).
You don't have to be as fast as combo, since you don't necessarily scoop to hate...etc.
But you can't be slower than turn 2-3 through opposing disruption.
As far as I can tell, the original list appears potentially decent at this.
But once you start adding slower cards that don't enable or aid a fast (turn 3 or earlier) kill, it waters the deck down too much.

[xouman]

That's right, I end the comment stating that RG and RB versions seem far better.

What is the aim of the deck? Kill ASAP or kill consistently? RG is quicker, black gives access to tutors and discard, so you can win even if the opponent countered your kiln. It's like playing TPS or drain tendrils, which is better?

[Delha]

That's right, I end the comment stating that RG and RB versions seem far better.

What is the aim of the deck? Kill ASAP or kill consistently? RG is quicker, black gives access to tutors and discard, so you can win even if the opponent countered your kiln. It's like playing TPS or drain tendrils, which is better?

RB seems like a bad idea to me. Consistency here means little slowing down allows a Drain deck to take full control of the board. Blue control is used to full on counterwars, so even Overmaster is unlikely to be a problem when you likely haven't done anything else they need to counter before then.

Slower Tendrils combo tend to exchange speed for a crushing amount of card advantage, and superior disruptive power. This deck cannot make similar claims.