A Booster Pack From My Set

[Marco]

Vengeful Aven
2W
Creature - Bird Soldier (Common)
2/2
Flying
Vengeful Aven has first strike as long as it has a death counter on it.
Rebirth 3W (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this creature would leave the battlefield, if it has a death counter on it, exile it instead.)

Necropsy
1B
Sorcery (Common)
As an additional cost to cast Necropsy, exile a creature card from your graveyard.
Draw two cards.

Tanzanite Gemstone
1
Artifact (Common)
Tanzanite Gemstone enters the battlefield with two charge counters on it.
T, Remove a charge counter from Tanzanite Gemstone: Add U to your mana pool.

Dauntless Explorer
1G
Creature - Elf Druid Scout (Common)
1/1
T, Untap a tapped land an opponent controls: Add one mana of any type that land could produce to your mana pool.
Rebirth 1G (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this creature would leave the battlefield, if it has a death counter on it, exile it instead.)

Crosswind Drake
3U
Creature - Drake (Common)
3/1
Flash
Flying
When Crosswind Drake enters the battlefield, if G was spent to cast Crosswind Drake, regenerate it.

Shieldwall Soldier
1W
Creature - Human Soldier (Common)
1/2
T: Target unblocked attacking creature with plainswalk becomes blocked. Activate this ability only during combat after blockers are declared.
Cycling W (W, Discard this card: Draw a card.)

Foraging Gerenuk
2G
Creature - Antelope (Common)
2/2
At the beginning of your end step, if you control no untapped lands, you may gain 2 life.

Drag to Hell
1BB
Instant (Common)
Destroy target nonblack creature, then exile a nonblack creature card from a graveyard.

Goblin Skirmisher
R
Creature - Goblin Warrior (Common)
2/2
Whenever Goblin Skirmisher attacks, return target Goblin creature to its owner's hand.

Wisplight Lynx
GW
Creature - Cat Spirit (Common)
2/2
T: Target creature gains swampwalk until end of turn.

Reviving Circlet
2
Artifact - Equipment (Uncommon)
Equipped creature has "1: Regenerate this creature."
G: Attach Reviving Circlet to target creature you control.
Equip 1 (1: Attach to target creature you control. Equip only as a sorcery.)

Bloodthirsty Vampire
3BB
Creature - Vampire Warrior (Uncommon)
4/3
Flying
Rebirth–Sacrifice two creatures. (You may cast this card from your graveyard for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield with a death counter on it. If this creature would leave the battlefield, if it has a death counter on it, exile it instead.)

Pyroclastic Surge
2RR
Sorcery (Uncommon)
Syphon 2 (As you cast this spell, tap up to two untapped lands you don't control. Each land tapped this way reduces this spell's cost by  or by one mana of any color that land could produce.)
If you control a Mountain, Pyroclastic Surge deals 2 damage to each creature and each player.

Jagged Foothills
Land - Mountain Forest (Rare)
(T: Add R or G to your mana pool.)
When Jagged Foothills enters the battlefield, target opponent may search his or her library for a basic land card, reveal it, and put it into his or her hand. If that player does, he or she then shuffles his or her library.

Plains
Basic Land - Plains
(T: Add W to your mana pool.)

[honestabe]

rebirth seems wayyy too good

[Delha]

rebirth seems wayyy too good

How so? There's nothing inherently broken about it. the similarity to Unearth is more damning than anything else, IMO.

[Oath of Happy]

Crosswind Drake's ability makes no sense

[AmbivalentDuck]

rebirth seems wayyy too good

How so? There's nothing inherently broken about it. the similarity to Unearth is more damning than anything else, IMO.

Like Fading and Vanishing?  Or like Infect and Wither?

[Marco]

Crosswind Drake's ability makes no sense

I find it amusing when people don't know how regeneration works.

Crosswind Drake enters the battlefield with a regeneration shield. If Crosswind Drake would be destroyed (say, beacause it flashed into play and blocked a 2/2 creature), instead remove all damage from it and tap it...

Like Fading and Vanishing?  Or like Infect and Wither?

Touché.  Or like Flashback and Retrace?

[Delha]

rebirth seems wayyy too good

How so? There's nothing inherently broken about it. the similarity to Unearth is more damning than anything else, IMO.

Like Fading and Vanishing?  Or like Infect and Wither?

Vanishing was specifically noted as a "fixed" version of Fading when it was implemented. The important part of Infect is the poison counters, I'd go so far as to argue that the Wither effect is incidental and unnecessary.

Finally, similarity to prior mechanics is clearly a bad thing, I'd hope we can all agree on that. I never said (and don't believe) that said similarity makes the cards unprintable.

[AmbivalentDuck]

similarity to prior mechanics is clearly a bad thing, I'd hope we can all agree on that.

I strongly disagree.

While I disagree with his costing of the mechanic, "rebirth" lies somewhere in between flashback (Call of the Herd), unearth (but the critter doesn't have haste and sticks around...), and Haakon, Stromgald Scourge while being none of them.  R&D has played with this class of mechanics a lot and we have no reason not to do the same.

[Delha]

If you refuse to acknowledge that rehashing old mechanics is a bad thing, then I can't really do anything but point out your lack of understanding a fundamental aspect of both game design and business.

[AmbivalentDuck]

If you refuse to acknowledge that rehashing old mechanics is a bad thing

It sounds like your quarrel is with WotC, not me.  I've already given several examples, but see also rampage (bushido), cycling (landcycling), and spikes (graft).

[Anusien]

If you refuse to acknowledge that rehashing old mechanics is a bad thing, then I can't really do anything but point out your lack of understanding a fundamental aspect of both game design and business.

Rehashing old mechanics is not a bad thing. Wizards tries to improve on the past often. Most of the obvious stuff has been done already. Variants of old mechanics are not uncommon and not frowned upon.

The land here is awful though. Players don't like cards that help their opponents. That's something that's come out of the original GDS if you were paying attention.

[Delha]

Rehashing old mechanics is not a bad thing. Wizards tries to improve on the past often. Most of the obvious stuff has been done already. Variants of old mechanics are not uncommon and not frowned upon.

Yes, they try to improve on the past, but look carefullly at the phrasing used there. "Improve" means that the past mechanic was implemented poorly (or at least suboptimally), and their intent is specifically to fix issues with that. Things like X-cycling, or multikicker, or doublestrike are all clearly defined as expansions on an established mechanic.

I specifically chose the word "rehash" in my prior post for the negative connotation. What I was getting at is this: Customers don't like when you take the same old thing and slap a "brand new" label on. If they're paying for something new, they expect something new. Failing to do so makes people feel like they aren't getting their money's worth. From what I recall of the old TGDS, many new mechanics suggested by players were criticized by the actual development team as "this is just another X". I don't remember the devs saying it much explicity, but the subtext felt quite clear.

Adding a new twist on an old mechanic differs in that the psychological impact changes due to bringing nostalgia into play. That said, you still run the risk of customers thinking that you're "just being lazy". You're walking a fine line here, and better make sure your new twist is bringing enough to the table that it'll be respected in it's own right.

Finally, time is another good way of distancing the new mechanic from the old. Look at the time gap between kicker and multikicker, fading and vanishing, spikes and graft. At the point Rebirth was brought in as a suggested mechanic, Unearth was still in Standard.

My original and core point is this: Rebirth is not inherently broken. However, Rebirth does not feel significantly enough differentiated from Unearth to me. It is too close mechanically and chronologically.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Customers don't like when you take the same old thing and slap a "brand new" label on.

Coke Classic.  Pepsi Natural.  Porn.

Give up.

[Delha]

Customers don't like when you take the same old thing and slap a "brand new" label on.

Coke Classic.  Pepsi Natural.  Porn.

Give up.

That's an idiotic comparison. First, Magic doesn't follow a remotely similar business model. Second, those product lines were ACTUALLY different from what was already being offered. Coke Classic was a reversion from New Coke. Pepsi Natural cuts artificial flavors and colors for natural equivalents. If you're going to draw parallels, at least try to make them relevant.

If my point wasn't true, they could get away with making 80% of the cards in Besieged just be reprints from Scars. In reality, we all know the uproar from doing so would be overwhelming.

[AmbivalentDuck]

If my point wasn't true, they could get away with making 80% of the cards in Besieged just be reprints from Scars. In reality, we all know the uproar from doing so would be overwhelming.

Straw man.

[Delha]

If my point wasn't true, they could get away with making 80% of the cards in Besieged just be reprints from Scars. In reality, we all know the uproar from doing so would be overwhelming.

Straw man.

Look back at just your last few posts one in the thread. YOU were the one that decided to pick out one tiny sliver out of a thorough response to attack, and even then failed to argue against it effectively. After I defended my post against your pithy response, you went and ignored 2/3 of THAT post as well. You are worlds closer to a straw man position than I am.

Whatever. I'm done with this. Your absolute zero grasp of reality or logic. This sort of crap is exactly how you got a damn forum created in your name, and I can't believe how badly I let you troll me YET AGAIN.

[AmbivalentDuck]

Your entire argument reduces to the uncited claim that:

Customers don't like when you take the same old thing and slap a "brand new" label on.

No amount of rhetoric justifies such a black/white position.  While you could have attempted to cite a marketing textbook/study, you did not.  Despite cited counterexamples from the real world and from Magic, you choose to attack them with fallacy-ridden rhetoric in place of logic and cited evidence.

[Marco]

While I disagree with his costing of the mechanic, "rebirth" lies somewhere in between flashback (Call of the Herd), unearth (but the critter doesn't have haste and sticks around...), and Haakon, Stromgald Scourge while being none of them.  R&D has played with this class of mechanics a lot and we have no reason not to do the same.

What would you change about the costing of the mechanic? I can provide examples of other cards with rebirth...

Rebirth (originally named reanimate) was conceived as flashback for creatures and I also drew inspiration from Bogardan Phoenix. It was created back in 2007 and I have found the threads where I posted cards with reanimate on www.mtgnews.com, www.mtgsalvation.com, and here. These posts predate both persist (2008) and unearth (2008). I do remember using Haakon, Stromgald Scourge (2006) as a reference...

[AmbivalentDuck]

The problem with rebirth is that cards like Call of the Herd gunk up both sides of the board and leads to stalemate.  Once someone drops a sweeper, both players then start rebirthing and you're back to stalemate.

It's interesting as a mechanic, but it needs to look dramatically over-costed to be about right.  Ie.  A 2/2 flyer with rebirth should have either a CMC or rebirth cost of 5 so that following a sweeper, it takes several turns to rebuild a board presence.

[Delha]

The problem with rebirth is that cards like Call of the Herd gunk up both sides of the board and leads to stalemate.  Once someone drops a sweeper, both players then start rebirthing and you're back to stalemate.

It's interesting as a mechanic, but it needs to look dramatically over-costed to be about right.  Ie.  A 2/2 flyer with rebirth should have either a CMC or rebirth cost of 5 so that following a sweeper, it takes several turns to rebuild a board presence.

Setting aside my primary complaint, I have to agree with this point.