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Author Topic: [Free Article] City of Brass - Finding the Tinker Target  (Read 4409 times)
TheBrassMan
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« on: February 23, 2011, 12:05:05 pm »

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/21186_City_Of_Brass_Finding_The_Tinker_Target.html

Like the name says - but also just comparing any two cards... critical stuff!  enjoy!
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2011, 12:55:13 pm »

Wow, this is an outstanding artilce for sure and it will be highly relevant for quite a while. Thank you, Mr. Probasco.
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2011, 01:19:08 pm »

Seconded.  Great stuff Andy, funny and full of applicable, practical info.
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2011, 02:12:15 pm »

Andy, you keep amazing me, truly good stuff!
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2011, 03:17:46 pm »

Great Article, Talks about something super relevant to vintage and guides us through a decision that half the decks in the format need to make.
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2011, 03:50:56 pm »

Great read! I love the brassman vs jackul pup insert, very cool. I also liked how you ended the article, kind of left the people who skipped to the end hanging with a vague answer.  Very Happy
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 04:19:00 pm »

Awesome, Andy. Your articles are always great. That comic got set as my computer background instantly, I was dying of laughter. Also, very well written, I really liked the analysis.
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2011, 04:41:54 pm »

Thanks for the kind words dudes!

Since I have a captive audience anyway, and other people brought it up, what do you think of images in articles in general?  Do they make it more/less readable?  Add or take away from the read?  Is there a difference between "funny" images like the comic, "amusing" images like bolt v shock (which ended up taking up a lot more space in the article than it did in my word document), and "informative" images like the card images for each tinker target?

Is this something I should bother doing in the future?  (Note that I might not even if people like them, as these articles are already taking up a ton of time as it is)
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 05:00:16 pm »

I am totally biased with images, as my history with TMD as shown, but to echo some support, I love them. However, there is a time and a place for everything.

Humorous ones are obviously good, but I do think most people will enjoy the reference pics. I think it's contribution to your writing depends on the subject, obviously, and that should inherently dictate whether or not one is appropriate. I thought Bolt vs Shock was subtlely witty and well placed. So, I think the only difference would be, that informative images should be there when the main focus of the topic is relative to a specific card, for example Bloated Toad when the article is about how awful it is(That wouldn't be a very good article, imo).  Very Happy

Personally, I think you're doing very well, though I do like that you try and get feedback actively.
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 05:06:33 pm »

I know you are completely biased against Sphinx, but this part doesn't do it justice:

Quote
On my very next turn, my opponent is going to attack me down to less than zero but more than negative six life, provided I block the largest creature I can. Also, you don't have a Time Walk or a way to find Time Walk. Also, he doesn't have any blue, black, white, or colorless removal spells this turn or draw any of those within the next four turns. Also, he doesn't just win some other way within the next four turns.

Congratulations! You figured out the situation where Sphinx of the Steel Wind is good!

It's not the very next turn, it's all of the remaining turns of the game. 

You may be able to block and survive, but that doesn't mean you can safely attack. 

When your opponent's answer to your Tinker is to cast their own Tinker, Sphinx trumps Inkwell and Battlesphere.

Ultimately, Sphinx matters when the life total matters.  This matters if you're dying to your own Bob, your opponent has a Tendrils but not enough storm anymore, or if you're playing a deck like Oath that gives the opponent an army of tokens. 

Either way, Blightsteel is nuts.  It's on the verge of stupid.
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 05:28:17 pm »

for example Bloated Toad when the article is about how awful it is(That wouldn't be a very good article, imo).  Very Happy

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

It's not the very next turn, it's all of the remaining turns of the game. 

You may be able to block and survive, but that doesn't mean you can safely attack. 

When your opponent's answer to your Tinker is to cast their own Tinker, Sphinx trumps Inkwell and Battlesphere.

Ultimately, Sphinx matters when the life total matters.  This matters if you're dying to your own Bob, your opponent has a Tendrils but not enough storm anymore, or if you're playing a deck like Oath that gives the opponent an army of tokens. 

I'd agree with this sentiment more in a pre-Blightsteel world.  It's "very next turn" because Blightsteel doesn't give them another turn.  For Sphinx to be better than Blightsteel, they have to have enough attackers to kill you through one blocker in two turns, while leaving back at least 2 toughness worth of blockers so you don't just kill them on your own turn.  Also those creatures can't beat Sphinx in a fight.

In other words - at 8 life, facing down eight 1/1 empty the warrens tokens, a Sphinx will save you and a Blightsteel won't.  If you're facing down two 4/5 tarmogoyfs, or one 8/9 tarmogoyf and two 2/2 meddling mages, the Blightsteel is just as good.  If you're facing down 15 empty the warrens tokens it doesn't matter which one you cast, and if you're facing down two 7/10 Sundering Titans the Sphinx loses and the Blightsteel wins it.

Sphinx doesn't remotely trump Blightsteel when both players cast a Tinker - and Blightsteel just kills the TPS player on the same turn that Sphinx would have gained 3 life.

Oath creating blockers is a valid concern, though Blightsteel still races 5 saproling tokens better than Sphinx does.  There are certainly other places where Sphinx is the best - like your opponent has a Karn in play, no Islands, Swords to Plowshares in hand, and there's a Painter's Servant out naming Green.  In most metagmes in most decks I'm not a fan of Sphinx at all.  But the whole point of the article is that it's completely possible Sphinx could be correct, in the right deck in the right field....

So ultimately I have to agree with you!
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2011, 07:02:36 pm »

I thought Sphinx was being singled out for discrimination. =(

You did a good job of explaining how a deck might need this, that, or the other.  And the story about Tinker-Colossus highlights just how good it is to be really fast if there is no specific need.

Blightsteel changes the dynamics of this by a wide margin.  Nothing compares favorably to that guy.  My experiences with it so far have been completely ridiculous.  You talked about how there was a separation between the "immediate impact" cards like Jar and Mindslaver, with the other option being a "big dumb guy" to Tinker out.  But Blightsteel is blurring the line. 
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2011, 11:33:31 pm »

Excellent article. If I could suggest a article for the future, It would have to do with Ad Nauseam in the Shop metagame. Or a Gush Vault list, one or the other would be nice. Also, Blightsteel Colossus does seem to go above and beyond the other robots. Definatley my first round draft pick. I would'nt want it duplicated though.
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2011, 12:33:26 am »

Excellent stuff, Brassy.

I am also on board with the BSC plan. Having tried him, I don't see any other Tinker target being comparable at the moment.

This and that other Tinker target are better in different situations to be sure. But the entire reason that we're playing with Tinker instead of, say, Serendib Efreet is speed. The whole reason that we're willing to throw away a card and risk being significantly down in cards and tempo if something goes wrong is the celerity of Tinker compared to other one-card win mechanisms. And BSC redefines how quickly a Robot can win a game.
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2011, 01:14:16 pm »

I like having images A LOT!  I wish I could incorperate them more into my posts here.
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2011, 09:31:30 pm »

Quote
At the time, Dave was playing Keeper, a cerebral, multicolored, extremely late-game control deck.

The wording of this quote makes me feel really old.

Besides that, an outstanding article.
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« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2011, 01:32:47 am »

for example Bloated Toad when the article is about how awful it is(That wouldn't be a very good article, imo).  Very Happy

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.


I eagerly await to see how you can make Bloated Toad seem awful. You have cast it right? And it resolved?  Very Happy Also, ther ebetter be a sick pic of a Bloated TOad in this article  Wink

I have included a quick reference for your copy and paste pleasure

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« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2011, 04:10:56 pm »

A definitive piece on a common debate, very nice.  Oh and I like the images. Shock v lightning bolt duel decks is a riot.

I was delighted you recalled my luck of joking my way into discovering tinker/bot.  As I recall, the party was at Steve Houdlettes (Grand Inquisitor) place in Hartford. It was something of an invitational, and the field was stacked-many of New England's best were there at a time when NE was a major force in vintage, and we did a big round robin. I put a tinker and a proxied DSC into keeper mostly as a laugh. When I won the first few games with it everyone was laughing along, when I found myself in the finals winning the event with it, I think we all took notice.

What was REALLY amazing about that day was that no one had any bounce in their main or board, and it wasn't like anyone could go infinite or anything. It is hard today to imagine, but tinker/bot was ridiculous when your opponent was hoping to win with a Tog, and the meta was almost entirely devoid of anything to remove an indestructible creature.  That was just sick.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 04:20:12 pm by Eastman » Logged
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2011, 08:09:57 pm »

...when I found myself in the finals winning the event with it...

(shakes fist)

Wild Mongrel just couldn't stand to win the day.
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« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2011, 12:41:24 pm »

Andy, I wanted to tell you that I thought this was a really nice article.   I've done this sort of thing in several recent pieces of my writing, but it's been strictly analytical, with comparative charts documenting the advantages and disadvantages of each tinker target.    You brought your unique and enjoyable style of writing to the task, and it made for a great and unexpectedly pleasurable read.   
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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2011, 01:38:53 pm »

Fantastic stuff as always man.
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2011, 12:12:43 am »

Another Great read! Very helpful and a pleasure to read. Pics of Bots for ref. were great  as well as the comic.
I would have probably started and ended the article with, "..Just use Blightsteel Colossus as Tinker target." along with a Pic of BSC from top of page to bottom.
So, I'm glad you wrote it  Very Happy
Keep up the good work sir.
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