[SCD] Stranglehold

[Onslaught]

This could have been a viable card in Vintage if it was 2R, but I still think it's kind of interesting. It's cool to see a hate card that actively encourages you to use artifact mana, as opposed to most hate stuff that just tires to slow the game down to make it "fair."

3R is pricey for something that doesn't win the game, but the versatility of turning off Time Vault, Tinker, etc. may be worthwhile.

[MaximumCDawg]

We posted threads on this card at almost exactly the same time!  I guess yours is first though, so a mod will be along to close mine down.  In my thread, I pointed out that it was cool they printed a Vault hoser.  Shows Commander has alot of potential to hit the Vintage meta if they want it too.  I think this is playable in Red Deck Wins if you run the full 8 of the 2-lands.  

Turn 2 Magus, Turn 3 this seems pretty good.

[Meddling Mike]

Turn 2 Magus, Turn 3 this seems pretty good.

It's funny, but I immediately thought about how this card is a bit redundant with MotM. This card shuts off fetch lands, MotM makes them relevant again by making them into usable mountains.

I was trying to think of what Vintage deck would like this effect, I think for a red workshops list it would love something like this as it hits one of the major gaps in the mana denial plan with fetch lands and really sticks it to Vault/Key on a number of levels. Unfortunately with all the sphere effects already dominating that archetype and the fact that it's not an artifact makes it a pretty tall order. Maybe a SB card for TMWA or something? I feel like there are too many decks that wouldn't care about the effects provided for it to be considered for the maindeck.

On a side note, I wonder how this interacts with Mindslaver, would the Mindslaver turn be considered an "extra" turn? Can they search their opponent's deck with the opponent's Demonic Tutor? I'll make a thread in the Rules Q & A, maybe Clariax can provide some insight into this situation that will almost certainly never come up.

[Guli]

Would have been great if it was a legendary creature for with a 2/x body.

[Troy_Costisick]

Well.  They made one for us.  Too bad it costs so doggone much to play.  TMWA, R/G Beats, or maybe Red Stax could try to play it.  Maybe they'll design something like it in another set along the lines Guil is suggesting.

Also, Mindslaver does not count as an extra turn.  You're just controlling someone else's turn.

Peace,

-Troy

[beder]

IMO, this could be an interesting side card for a "classical" blue deck, for the mirror or against turbo tezz.
Let s keep in mind that it ony affects opponent!

[madmanmike25]

I'll be the one to say it.  Four mana for a 'speed bump' is way too much.  By the time you get it out, chances are your opponent has already searched his library at least once.  If you are trying to stop Time Vault.....try instant speed artifact hate or Null Rod?  This card will see as much play as Mindlock Orb did.  People will test it then realize that for 4+ mana you would rather have more of a damaging effect on your opponent.  It's like a Null Rod that cost 5 mana.

Seriously, this card really irks me.  Why can't they give red a decent card at a decent mana cost?  It's getting a little old.  At four mana why would you want this thing over say Koth?

If you maindeck this, gg vs every non-blue deck besides Fish.  This card is not good at all.  Try again Wizards....

[vaughnbros]

Well the abilities on this are awesome you opponent cant vault key and they cant tinker leaving most blue decks with what a planeswalker ultimate to try and win the game.  It just really makes no sense why it would be 4 mana and an enchantment if they really made it for us.  They shouldve made it a creature and 3 mana.

[LordHomerCat]

This card is dumb.  I'm glad it costs too much to play, because it's a really stupid (and incredibly narrow) effect.

[TopSecret]

I think this card becomes like sideboard fodder like whoa for every ancient tomb red magus of the moon deck.
if you can speed it out it pretty much effs over every win condition and acts as mana denial. pricey, but if you're playing enough excel and playing a hate deck, it's pretty damn decent in the sideboard

[DubDub]

Try again Wizards....

Seconded.  Nature's Claim exists, thanks for playing.  Stranglehold plus shroud and a 2/2 body, for a mana cheaper would be tenuously playable.

[Meddling Mike]

Also, Mindslaver does not count as an extra turn.  You're just controlling someone else's turn.

What are you basing that on though, is there a definition somewhere in the comprehensive rules about what defines a turn as an "extra" turn? I don't even think that the interaction between Mindslaver and Time Vault is relevant because it specifically says

If you would begin your turn while Time Vault is tapped

, by comparison you can see the way Stranglehold is worded in such a way that it never indicates that the extra turn has to be the opponent's turn. For the record, I think you're probably right, but it's a unique interaction and answers to my question may not even officially exist yet. There might be more of a premise for the second part of that question. If they control an Iona, Shield of Emeria choosing blue and I Mindslaver them can I cast/make them cast their Ancestral Recall? Under the Mindslaver rulings on gatherer it says

You choose which spells the other player casts

, which seems to suggest that the Mindslavered player is actually considered the one casting the spell, so it should be legal, but I'm definitely not certain.

[DubDub]

Mindslaver doesn't create a turn.  Your Stranglehold won't stop my 'Slave effect on you because I'm not taking the turn, I'm just controlling yours.  That's independent of whether the turn is 'regular' or 'extra' (Seedtime cast after 'Slaving, etc.).

[Mr. Type 4]

this is way too much mana.  I think it should probably cost 1R or RR.  It could probably R if it were symmetrical. 

 

[Delha]

this is way too much mana.  I think it should probably cost 1R or RR.  It could probably R if it were symmetrical.

Yeah, I first misread this as costing and honestly it's so narrow that didn't bother me. After realizing my mistake I could think of any good reason this should cost more than .

[Joblin Velder]

The cost is probably a direct result of how many players it hoses in Commander.

[Delha]

Is tutoring huge in Commander? It makes sense, and that's how I'd build, but didn't know how prevalent it was in practice.

Anyone taking extra turns really shouldn't be complaining when you shut those off.

Edit: Corrected SHOULD to SHOULDN'T

[Joblin Velder]

Yeah, both of these abilities affect Commander hugely. In a deck of 100 cards, you can expect anyone running colors that can support it to be running upwards of 15 search effects, often more.

Additionally, stacking extra turns is a common "groan-worthy" strategy.

EDIT: Without continuing to stray too far off topic, the strongest generals tend to be those with repeatable tutors, like Arcum Dagson and Captain Sisay.

[DubDub]

Is tutoring huge in Commander? It makes sense, and that's how I'd build, but didn't know how prevalent it was in practice.

Anyone taking extra turns really should be complaining when you shut those off.

My Wydwen deck doesn't abuse extra turns, which I don't find that fun in casual, but it does contain 11 tutors not counting four fetchlands and Tolaria West.  I also leave out Imperial Seal and Grim Tutor which see play in higher powered  base decks.

For reference, it's not just  that would suffer.  Tutoring is very powerful and necessary for all the colors in Commander.  My Radha deck is  and runs even more search effects (14) not counting Wooded Foothills, partially because the raw card-draw is worse.

@Velder: don't forget Zur.

[Killane]

my sliver queen deck has 18 cards that search. This bones it hard. This card does a great job at hosing expensive mana bases like mine.

[The Atog Lord]

This is a good card against my as-unfair-as-possible Azami deck with Time Warp and Temporal Manipulation. I think cards like this need to be printed.