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Author Topic: Karn's Restarting the game with Trike in play  (Read 2075 times)
LotusHead
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« on: July 04, 2011, 06:54:20 am »


Quote
+4: Target player exiles a card from his or her hand.
-3: Exile target permanent.
-14: Restart the game, leaving in exile all non-Aura permanent cards exiled with Karn Liberated. Then put those cards onto the battlefield under your control.

More specifically, I start with Triskelion and Phyrexian Metamorph in play.

Do I get to swing with them on my first turn of the new game?  I peeled Karn at midnight prerelease, and restarted with Psychosis Crawler in play (which prompted more judge questions, like does it die immediately etc).

The judge ruling then was that Dude was in play at beginning of my turn, but upon further reading of Karn (and MWS opponent's insistance) I read Karn and there is the "Then put it into play.... (after restarting turn)" thing."

Do I immediately beat for 8 with 2 trikes? or not?

Thanks in advance...

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Clariax
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2011, 08:05:47 am »

More specifically, I start with Triskelion and Phyrexian Metamorph in play.

...

Do I immediately beat for 8 with 2 trikes? or not?

A creature put on the battlefield by Karn's ultimate will be there since the beginning of your turn, so can attack on the initial turn of the restarted game.  However, in the case provided, you could not attack for 8 with 2 trikes because you cannot have 2 trikes.  All the cards are put on the battlefield at the same time, so there won't be anything for the Phyrexian Metamorph to copy.  So you'll have one trike (which can attack), and one Phyrexian Metamorph that isn't copying anything so is likely a 0/0 and ends up in its owner's graveyard as soon as SBAs are checked on the first upkeep.
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Aaron Cutler
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2011, 02:52:19 am »

Well, that was unexpected!

When you have time could you elaborate on clone/metamoph/(and also for auras) and other effects that put things into play at the same time? (Warp World, Living Death, Worldgorger dragon shenanigans, Show and Tell, Eureka/Hypergenesis)

Thanks in advance.
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Clariax
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 03:18:45 am »

The ability of Clone, Phyrexian Metamorph and other similar cards generates a replacement effect.  It replaces the object entering the battlefield with the object entering the battlefield as a copy of something (if you so choose).  You determine how the replacement effect will apply, then the modified event occurs.

It doesn't enter the battlefield then copy something, it enters the battlefield as a copy.  So the point at which you determine what you're going to copy with it is immediately before it enters the battlefield.  Since we're dealing with 2 objects (in this case Metamorph and Triskelion) entering the battlefield simultaneously, the point immediately before they enter the battlefield, neither of them is on the battlefield (they're still exiled).  And this is the point at which you choose what to copy, and you can only choose something that is on the battlefield, but there isn't anything on the battlefield, so you can't choose anything to copy.
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Aaron Cutler
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 04:19:14 am »

Thank you for response. It answers most of my questions.  The only remaining question is if any of these:

Warp World, Living Death, Worldgorger dragon shenanigans, Show and Tell, Eureka/Hypergenesis

put things into play 1 at a time (ie, allowing for clone/metamorph to get to copy something).



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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 05:52:15 am »

Warp World puts all artifacts, creatures and lands at the same time onto the battlefield, then all enchantments enter the battlefield simultaneous.

Worldgorger Dragon puts all permanents at the same time on the battlefield, but your opponent might still have legal targets for your clone effects.

With Eureka and Hypergenesis the permanents enter the battlefield in a specific order, so Auras and clone effects have a legal target, except for your first choice.
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