Ulterior Motive

[BC]

Ulterior Motive
 
Instant
Gain control of target permanent that entered the battlefield from a library or graveyard this turn. (This effect last indefinitely.)

[DubDub]

I like this idea, although there are still some loopholes: Iona on blue, Emrakul/Pro-Blue, Shroud permanents, doesn't stop Show and Tell.  Do you want to close those, or is this meant to address Oath and Reanimator specifically?

[BC]

The word is 'ulterior'.

Oh... hmmm... embarassing.

To answer your question, it's not meant to be a catch-all for people dumping big creatures onto the board (i.e. Show and Tell).  I think the fact that it can't hit everything justifies its low mana cost.  It gets Oath and Reanimator creatures, Tinker robots, and even fetched lands.

[Delha]

I like it a lot.

Do you think is too cheap to be fair? I think this is narrow enough to still be balanced even at that low a cost.


Beyond that, I just had some minor templating suggestions:
"Gain control of target permanent that entered the battlefield from a library or graveyard this turn. (This effect last indefinitely.)"

--Changed "Take control" to "Gain control" and added reminder text (Dominate).
--Changed "put onto the battlefield" to "entered the battlefield" (Cradle to Grave).

[BC]

I like your templating, Delha.  It has been adopted.

I initially thought this could be  , but then I thought that might be a little powerful for a first turn play (thinking of Legacy).  You could go land go, then if your opponent cracks a fetch land, you could be at 3 lands to none on your second turn.

[Joblin Velder]

I like your templating, Delha.  It has been adopted.

I initially thought this could be  , but then I thought that might be a little powerful for a first turn play (thinking of Legacy).  You could go land go, then if your opponent cracks a fetch land, you could be at 3 lands to none on your second turn.

Yeah, that's pretty bonkers. I was actually wondering if 1U was fair because of the interactions with fetchlands.

[DubDub]

There's always the old standby: "non-land permanent".

[Joblin Velder]

That's probably safe. Even hitting something goofy like Rampant Growth would be a blow out.

[BC]

I think it would be safe as "non-land permanent" at  , or any permanent at a cmc higher than  .  I just thought "non-land permanent" makes it about twice as narrow as it already is.

[Delha]

I should have read more carefully, I overlooked the mention of fetchlands. I really like keeping that interaction in place, and personally favor the higher cost in return for the added utility.

It creates an interesting tension between expecting dual heavy vs fetch heavy opponents. If you run Wastes, fetching basics blanks them. If you run UM, players dropping duals blank these. If you run both, it eats a ton of slots and probably runs you into lots of situations where you've got the wrong answer to their land type.

All that said, it might still be too good to fairly price at , and anything higher is probably unplayable. Probably best to just go the "non-land" route, as much as I'd like otherwise.

[DubDub]

If it's higher costed but can hit lands then it works against Crucible of Worlds.  You can't stop them from using fetchlands with Crucible but you can stop Wasteland or Strip Mine recursion... as I write this I realize that I thought of responding to UM with a fetchland activation, but not the same with a Wasteland/Strip activation.

Please ignore, unless you want to give it Split Second (which still wouldn't prevent "play Wasteland from graveyard with crucible, immediately use it").

[Delha]

...You can't stop them from using fetchlands with Crucible
...

The idea isn't to steal the fetch itself, but the land they dig up with it.

[DubDub]

...You can't stop them from using fetchlands with Crucible
...

The idea isn't to steal the fetch itself, but the land they dig up with it.

Right, I understand that, which is why I was thinking that you can't stop fetchland recursion through Crucible with this.  You can steal the land they get, but not the fetchland which goes back to their graveyard.  The mental lapse I had was thinking that Wasteland in comparison would be recurred but not used immediately (or in response to UM), which is clearly wrong.

[Norm4eva]

Between Stifle, Trickbind and Ulterior Motive, Blue with its countermagic suite would be the most annoying land destruction deck to play against ever.  Mono Blue Ponzi FTW.

"Stifle ur fetch.  Trickbind ur fetch.  Counter your -play-, Motive your -land-."  Opponent has no land, you untap 4 on turn 4 and play another.  Nicely done Blue Mage, I guess you get to marry my mom and fuck my sister now, I guess.

[Delha]

@ DubDub: Sorry, I should have given you the benefit of the doubt and also clarified my position. Stealing the land they fetched out is a big enough swing that I'd consider the play a solid one, even when taking into account the fact that they'll just fetch out another next turn.

@ Norm4eva: In fairness, practically all competitive Vintage decks that include fetchlands run blue. I realize things are different in Legacy, but just sayin'.


Edit: Added response to DubDub